Just bought a Rover 25 with issues ~

[liner33]

Great thread I've never really been a fan of Rovers but enjoy watching anyone work on their car with high standards

Like the diesel oil tip might try that on my Evo which suffers from noisy hyd tappets and makes the oil dirty very quickly despite having 5 oil changed in the last 10k

Do you have a preference to use ???

I've been warming to Rovers of late i have a mate with a 827 which is currently producing at least 340hp on a stock engine ie stock pistons , rods , crank etc I'm impressed on how efficient these engines are (Albeit a Honda one)

[dome]

Great thread John, nice to see well written threads like these.

I have a question for you regarding 600s. How are they for boot space? I'm looking for a runaround that I can fit a bike or 2 with the wheels off. Do the seats fold down? There's one for sale near me that looks ok, should be a cheap car...

Sorry for the hijack...

[Chainguy]

dome said:

Great thread John, nice to see well written threads like these.

I have a question for you regarding 600s. How are they for boot space? I'm looking for a runaround that I can fit a bike or 2 with the wheels off. Do the seats fold down? There's one for sale near me that looks ok, should be a cheap car...

Sorry for the hijack...

I had a 600 derv, and I could fit 2 bikes in with the wheels off. The seats are fold flats. Only slight problem is the parcal shelf is fixed and doesnt move, but you can get past that without much issue.

As a side note, that 600 was passed around various members of my family by the time I was done with it, and in the 15 years of its life it did well over 300K miles on the same engine and box. Incredible engine the L series.

Edited by Chainguy on Sunday 7th November 14:19

[MGJohn]

liner33 said:

Great thread I've never really been a fan of Rovers but enjoy watching anyone work on their car with high standards

Like the diesel oil tip might try that on my Evo which suffers from noisy hyd tappets and makes the oil dirty very quickly despite having 5 oil changed in the last 10k

Do you have a preference to use ???

I've been warming to Rovers of late i have a mate with a 827 which is currently producing at least 340hp on a stock engine ie stock pistons , rods , crank etc I'm impressed on how efficient these engines are (Albeit a Honda one)

I've mainly used XPart 15-40 Diesel Grade oil for that flush as it is/was recommended by MG-Rover.

dome said:

Great thread John, nice to see well written threads like these.

I have a question for you regarding 600s. How are they for boot space? I'm looking for a runaround that I can fit a bike or 2 with the wheels off. Do the seats fold down? There's one for sale near me that looks ok, should be a cheap car...

Sorry for the hijack...

No need to apologise. I have got two bikes in the boot of my 600s ~ with rear seats down. Wheels removed will allow one without the need to lower the rear seat backs.

The boot on the 600s is almost as large and usable as the Montego's ~ the car the Rover 600 replaced in my books. Here's a picture of the boot in my 600 Diesel I ran a few years back when fuel prices went silly high...



If fuel economy is high on your list of 'must haves' ~ I was amazed to discover that the top of the range 600, the 620ti, is the most economical of the whole range. It appears all the Honda engined versions are quite thirsty. I noted at the start of this thread that even towing the little R25, I still got 33 mpg ~ carefully measured. Use the sometimes addictive boost excessively and that will drop to the low 20s mpg.

Back on track topic...

Thanks to the helpful kindness of another enthusiast here on PistonHeads ~ I can now put up a better picture of those coolant samples taken from the Expansion Bottle soon after inserting the SPEEDflush. Here is the picture which clearly shows the remnant oil-mix that is always left in the engine even after the best of pressure washing ~ all held in suspension and ready to be drained away. Quite unlike the crystal clear water I filled it with earlier.



Back flushing the system with the garden hose at full pressure after the initial drain off into bowls ~ two bowlsfull ~ showed the water to run crystal clear almost immediately the hose was turned on.

That's what I wanted to see. I put only water in the system again and will run the car for a few more days with only water to allow any small bits of the old oil-mix lurking to be drained again if still there. Then it will be the 50-50 OAT coolant and the car will be set up for the winter.

There's still a few little niggles to sort. The rear wash ... doesn't ... assume sediment blockage. The first two speeds on the heater fan ... don't... easy fix apparently ~ and the AirCon works but, it's nowhere near as cold as it should be. I'll wait til the £25 winter offers are again available before getting the regass.

Almost sorted.

Oh yes ~ the boot light ... doesn't. Bulb and connections fine ... but, the voltage available shows only 1.5 on the Multimeter ~ Very strange ... any ideas on that one ?

Finally, that filthy looking expansion bottle has been cleaned and now looks like new. You can check the coolant level at a glance now without the need to remove the pressure cap and look inside as previously. What is cleanliness next to ? As my old Granny used to say ... tis also good for motor well being too...

Going to settle in front of the TV and see if Jenson's bad "Stick 'em up" luck continues...11th on the grid should be interesting to watch .... He praised his security driver for his swift action ~ could have been a bit nasty that.
..
.

[HellDiver]

MGJohn said:

Oh yes ~ the boot light ... doesn't. Bulb and connections fine ... but, the voltage available shows only 1.5 on the Multimeter ~ Very strange ... any ideas on that one ?

Dirty switch, a bit of contact cleaner sprayed on the switch should sort it.

[Neil_Sc]

Top thread

[john_p]

MGJohn said:

Good thread. So on this one what caused the 0 reading on cylinder 4 ? Was there a break in the gasket ?

[MGJohn]

john_p said:

MGJohn said:

Good thread. So on this one what caused the 0 reading on cylinder 4 ? Was there a break in the gasket ?

Bit of a mystery. I'll clean the old gasket up and have a closer look. I was dreading the head coming off expecting to see piston or valve damage.... perfect...

Just maybe I had not screwed the compression tester in correctly. I did not remove the cylinder head remember. My older son mentioned that Spark Plug No. 4 was somewhat loose... I checked that thread and it seemed OK and when I'd cleaned up all four plugs they all went in so no problems with damaged threads as I suspected at first.

....so who knows.

When removing items yourself, you can spot any oddities or bodges as you work and it also helps come reassembly. This little car is as straight as a die. Spot on. Witness my incorrectly reconnecting the fuel lines ( albeit in the dark ) so that the fuel was being pumped straight back into the fuel tank. Thus, the engine wouldn't start ... checked and reconnected them correctly and the engine started as soon as I turned the Key....

Buying a car like this untried and unseen off ebay is always a risk. When bidding unseen and untried, I contact the vendors by phone before bidding with a few questions. You can usually tell if folks are genuine and I've bought five cars unseen off ebay over the past ten years that way ... so far so good but, there's always a first time. Of course, when buying/bidding more expensive cars, I do always check and drive them first .... Then if it goes wrong, only myself to blame. So far so good....
..

P.S. My son paid quite a bit for his Lotus Elan from an Ebay listing ~ he did however view and drive it before doing so. That was our most expensive purchase from Ebay.

[dome]

Thanks for that John, a 620ti is on my radar now.

[MGJohn]

dome said:

Thanks for that John, a 620ti is on my radar now.

Whereabouts are you? Be patient as there are some nice ones about and some not so nice. Look at as many examples as you car. Good ones are not that rare and occasionally come up for sale although most caring owners tend to hang onto them for ages ... which is understandable.

The one used to collect the little Rover will shortly be up for sale. It's pictured earlier in the thread. I've already lined up another project sooner than expected so need to make space. Like London Buses, nothing for ages then three come along all at the same time... :Sod's Law I guess....)

Better pictures of the car :~





There is sometimes a noisy front wheel bearing which all being well, I'll replace sometime in the next week. Then it will be put up for sale.
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[spikeyhead]

John, very good thread.

MGJohn said:

morgrp said:

Whats the success rate like on the new multi layer steel gaskets? do they cure the associate problems of HG failure?

Success rate ?

Careful preparation of all the components is the more important aspect of these things. That and identifying the causes and reasons for the so called gasket "failure" and rectifying them on any car!

I have fitted two of these MLS gaskets the the little K-Series... 100% success so far ... on a sample of only two!. This will be the third all being well. Care and preparation is the real answer.
..

A mechanic friend has fitted hundreds of the multi-layer gasket and hasn't had one returned, so they do seem successful.

[dome]

John, your Rover looks far too good for my £500ish budget-I'm just looking for a cheap winter hack.

[MGJohn]

EUREKA !!

Until today, I had no idea what had caused the damage to this car's cylinder head gasket so that it failed to do the job it was designed to do.

Cylinder head gaskets rerely ever fail .... invariably, they are damaged first by some other agency, usually overheating folowing coolant loss.

I've been driving the car frequently since I fixed it and have been pleased with the result. Done about 200 miles so far now. So, earlier I drained the cooling system again as it only had water in it. Then refilled it with 50-50 OAT Coolant. Did a bit of shopping and when returning to the car in the Supermarket car park, noticed a small pool of coolant under the front of the car. Funny thing was the colour ~ yellowish green ~ OAT is Orange. As the floor was wet anyway I called over a chap who was checking parking durations and asked him what colour he thought the stuff on the floor was... Green, not Orange... was it my car of a previous occupant of that space...

Drove home and after parking up in front of my garage, took the shopping in then returned to the car. This time there was a very small pool of ORANGE coolant directly underneath the Timing side of the engine. Looks like the car's Water Pump has worn and allowing coolant to escape.

So, fairly certain that's the problem which caused the failure. As it was getting dark drove to my nearest UNIPART Stockist in another car and got all three drive belts ~ PAS, Timing and Alternator belts, plus new Water Pump. £48 in total... UNIPART were the original Parts supplier for ARGroup before it was taken over.

In a way this additional task is good news. It confirms the reason for the so called failure was coolant loss ~ via the worn water pump.

I shall replace the water pump soon. All three Drive Belts have to be removed to renew the water pump .... so FOUR birds with one stone.

Had I handed the car over to my son shortly after fixing it, because of his very limited experience of these things, he could have driven it and not noticed the loss of coolant .... and a repeat would be possible undoing all my work.
..

[Ferg]

I got a lift home from my Mother-in-Laws tonight, having returned her car to her (Merc A-Class...hateful thing), from my mechanic brother-in-law and was discussing this thread. He has done a lot of 'K' headgaskets himself and really likes the little engine. He was saying that when he refills the cooling system he puts a bit of Persil in to break down the oil before a second flush.

[MGJohn]

Ferg said:

I got a lift home from my Mother-in-Laws tonight, having returned her car to her (Merc A-Class...hateful thing), from my mechanic brother-in-law and was discussing this thread. He has done a lot of 'K' headgaskets himself and really likes the little engine. He was saying that when he refills the cooling system he puts a bit of Persil in to break down the oil before a second flush.

For the second flush after initial drain, I put a dishwasher tablet in the bottle. ...

Some say said:

.
..Why didn't you replace the Pump at the same time John Boy ...?
..

Had I replaced the Water Pump at the same time I would have worried that the actual cause of the so called 'failure' was something else. My son suggested I did the pump at the same time but, wanted to find out why there was progressive coolant loss first.

I now have that answer and so when the Water Pump and all three Drive Belts are newed ~ [ probably Thursday now as busy Weds, looking at another project if it doesn't rain ] ... I can be more confident about the car when handing it over to my son.

The reason I had not identified the water pump leak until today is quite simple. There was only water in the cooling system. It had rained most of the apst few days since fixing the gasket so wet underfoot most of the time. Thus, unable to see any leaks until today when the coloured coolant showed on the floor... Only about an eggcup full but, easy to spot as it spread widely over the wet ground...
..

[MGJohn]

dome said:

Great thread John, nice to see well written threads like these.

I have a question for you regarding 600s. How are they for boot space? I'm looking for a runaround that I can fit a bike or 2 with the wheels off. Do the seats fold down? There's one for sale near me that looks ok, should be a cheap car...

Sorry for the hijack...

On the subject of boot space, my son bid successfully on some Rover bits recently and night before last collected them in his Rover 620ti, now showing 178,000 miles.

He managed to get in the boot one complete 1.8 K-Series VVC engine ( ex MGF ), both inlet and exhaust manifolds, the MGF VVC Gearbox, Alternator and a few other bits and bobs from the VVC. A real bootfull. He left our Gloucester home @ 1900 hrs, was back home from Ely in Cambs within six hours ~ a round trip of some 340 miles. He actually took things easy as it was very cold night with a risk of frost on the roads. Plus, part of the Motorway near Birmingham was closed following an accident and traffic was diverted on slower roads. Considering he had to load up that load of engine and gearbox parts and settle up, he made excellent time considering those conditions...

Credit to the car which as usual, never missed a beat. The 620ti is a competent mile muncher and on a run, low 30s mpg is possible not driving for economy.
..

[MGJohn]

Latest Update :~

Have now done close to 300 miles in this Rover 25. It runs really well. Better than I had expected.

Just one niggle to sort. Since I first saw the car and turned the key when I picked it up from the previous owner, the EML ( Engine Management Light ) is continuously illuminated as soon as you switch on. Does not go out as soon as engine starts as it should.

Before I check all possibilities, can anyone suggest what might be causing the EML to stay on all the time?
..
.

[MGJohn]

Quinny said:

MGJohn said:

Latest Update :~

Have now done close to 300 miles in this Rover 25. It runs really well. Better than I had expected.

Just one niggle to sort. Since I first saw the car and turned the key when I picked it up from the previous owner, the EML ( Engine Management Light ) is continuously illuminated as soon as you switch on. Does not go out as soon as engine starts as it should.

Before I check all possibilities, can anyone suggest what might be causing the EML to stay on all the time?
..
.

Is it possible the oxygen sensor has been damaged by crap getting blown through the exhaust when the HG failed?

Yes, that is top of my list of prime suspects to check. Thanks for the confirmation. Not checked, but I believe there are two oxygen sensors (OS) on these later cars.

When first fired up after the repair, there was a lot of both moisture and condensation from the exhaust for several minutes. Far more than I'd expect normally. All that could have affected the OSs.
..
.

[Crafty_]

On many cars there is a way to read the engine codes, on older cars you connected two pins on the OBDII plug, switch the ignition on and then the EML light will flash sequences.
On my current car I hold clutch & brake to the floor, EML codes displayed on the odometer.

See if you can find the procedure, then you'll know what is causing the light. Given the car is driving okay its something that the ecu can use a default value for - lambda, knock etc. Its possible its MAF but that would show itself in other ways too (poor running / high fuel consumption etc).

ETA if it is Lambda sensor they can be "cleaned", may not work but you've got nothing to lose.

Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 13th November 23:41

[Ferg]

Just for you, John, I've snapped a picture of the rear of my car. I wear it with pride....



The small badge stuck onto a bit of vinyl work by my near neighbour, a signwriter, came from the centre of the Metro steering wheel the car wore for it's SVA test.