RE: BMW Hybrid Supercar Confirmed
Discussion
Twincam16 said:
blingrims said:
Love this. Love the car, but the thing I like best is that all the half wits who respond to every post with "boring, seen it all before" are genuinely lost and confused.
This is the future. The winners from the current car industry will be the ones who realise that, and realise that having money does not by definition mean you don't care about the environment.
This is the closest thing to an exciting, sustainable, and legislation agreeable car I have seen. We salute you.
Or just keep building v12's and make it so Europe forces the manufactures into something far worse. You choose.
This is the future. The winners from the current car industry will be the ones who realise that, and realise that having money does not by definition mean you don't care about the environment.
This is the closest thing to an exciting, sustainable, and legislation agreeable car I have seen. We salute you.
Or just keep building v12's and make it so Europe forces the manufactures into something far worse. You choose.
The way I see it, we're facing a situation not unlike America in the early '70s.
They'd just had a heyday of muscle cars, with displacements approaching 8 litres and scarcely-believable power outputs. They were cheaply engineered, very heavy, and thirsty beyond belief. This was fine in a time before CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) regulations and very cheap fuel, but that era ended very suddenly.
What followed was frankly embarassing for America. The muscle cars downsized but retained the barn-door engineering and merely became pointless. America was promptly flooded with European and Japanese imports that offered things like twin-cam 'fours' and 'sixes' or small lightweight aluminium V8s, turbochargers, independent rear suspension and light weight. Not only did they use a lot less fuel, they also matched the muscle-car performance. Look at the big-sellers of that era - cars like the Datsun 240Z, Fiat 124 Spider, Triumph TR8 - then compare them to the long-in-the-tooth likes of the Mustang II, smogged-out Corvette C3, Chrysler Cordoba-based Dodge Charger etc. A poor shadow of their former selves.
And yes, so rich people could still afford to buy and run them, but thanks to environmental legislation, their power outputs were floored with de-smogging gear and they were ever-heavier as luxury toys strained to make up for the lack of appeal elsewhere.
Truth is, I think the muscle-car-with-IRS recipe that it seems Germany has embraced for the last decade or so has run it's course. Engines can't get much bigger or more powerful without just becoming pointless. Attention has to turn to the Chapman Principle to make cars perform the way we're used to whilst needing less power.
I also think this will lead to cars that are actually more satisfying to drive. The lighter they are, the less assistance the steering needs, the less bulk there is to keep in check round corners, the more immediate the acceleration and so on.
Problem is, the more the traditionalists harrumph and hector about 'just sticking a V8 in it' and dismissing climate-change legislation - no matter how 'right' you think you are, you WILL get left behind.
Just cherish the era of big V8 engines, maintain the cars as classics, and move on.
I've got to say I'm impressed with the way BMW are going compared to the competition (in some ways).
They lost the UK market to Audi's 'showier' cars, they've reinvented themselves and put 'technology' at the core with 'efficient dynamics'.
Their cars drive well (if not as well as some more focued marques), there are some sweet engines, the looks will follow. Hopefully cars will also start to shed a few pounds as it's an obvious way to make them drive better and be more efficent.
This would be a good start. All IMO
They lost the UK market to Audi's 'showier' cars, they've reinvented themselves and put 'technology' at the core with 'efficient dynamics'.
Their cars drive well (if not as well as some more focued marques), there are some sweet engines, the looks will follow. Hopefully cars will also start to shed a few pounds as it's an obvious way to make them drive better and be more efficent.
This would be a good start. All IMO
Patrick Bateman said:
GTRene said:
yinujim said:
BMW please build something like this. No fugly weido eco hybrid crap. Put NA V12 in it and give it to a Italian to design.
you mean something like this? the M model?its in the pipeline too.
Twincam16 said:
Problem is, the more the traditionalists harrumph and hector about 'just sticking a V8 in it' and dismissing climate-change legislation - no matter how 'right' you think you are, you WILL get left behind.
I agree that cars need to adapt to the world around them. But this is a supercar, this should be the last car to have a V8 in it before the fun-police finally have their way. You can get a 550bhp twin turbo X5 yet the supercar is a 3 cylinder diesel? Besides in the scheme of things these cars are going to be built in tiny numbers of complete insignificance to the polar bear. This technology seems fantastic, stick it in a 3 series at sensible money and ill have one, but not in the supercar. Its the same with Ferrari and the way they are going, it's mainly for publicity not for saving the planet. Weird that anyone would think a V8 is a prerequisite to having fun in a car. I'm far more interested in seeing how the engineering challenges of new technology are overcome. Yes theres a lot of greenwash in the marketing but it's the cutting edge of science. If they were just gonna bung a V8 in it it would be incredibly boring.
Front is great, at last BMWs are looking mean again... rear is a dogs breakfast however. Want to see it in black really.
Front is great, at last BMWs are looking mean again... rear is a dogs breakfast however. Want to see it in black really.
bakerjuk said:
I think some people are missing the REALLY exciting point about this.
1) Yes its ugly
2) Yes its not that fast for a "super-car"
3) Yes 100k is ridiculous for a car such as that
But.....
4) we must start somewhere
5) this will offer a proof of demand for super-car hybrids
6) Its a lot better than previous efforts
7) give it 10 years and we will have celica equivalents blasting around our A roads in silence based on the technology they are developing now.
So it may be pretty poor for todays petrol standards, but given all the R&D going into it I think its a cracking move by BMW to give their competitors something to worry about and try to beat.
Hoorah for BMW !!!!!
You got the point there. Don't agree with you on your points 1) because I think it's not really ugly (rather futuristic) and 3) it's not ridiculous priced. It is expensive, but so is the Tesla. And when the Tesla runs out of juice you will stay where you are. 1) Yes its ugly
2) Yes its not that fast for a "super-car"
3) Yes 100k is ridiculous for a car such as that
But.....
4) we must start somewhere
5) this will offer a proof of demand for super-car hybrids
6) Its a lot better than previous efforts
7) give it 10 years and we will have celica equivalents blasting around our A roads in silence based on the technology they are developing now.
So it may be pretty poor for todays petrol standards, but given all the R&D going into it I think its a cracking move by BMW to give their competitors something to worry about and try to beat.
Hoorah for BMW !!!!!
The petrol engine had it's time now it's about time to move on. Is there anyone missing the steam train around here? Or the landline telephone? I guess not.
I guess some of their competitors are already wetting their pants because of the latest announcements of BMW. Time will tell if the market is ready for this kind of hybrid sports car. Those who can afford this car will buy it for the status, to show that they feel responsible for the ressources of the planet. I'm not a tree hugger but I would appreciate to drive a 300+ bhp sports car with 75mpg.
Kong said:
Twincam16 said:
Problem is, the more the traditionalists harrumph and hector about 'just sticking a V8 in it' and dismissing climate-change legislation - no matter how 'right' you think you are, you WILL get left behind.
I agree that cars need to adapt to the world around them. But this is a supercar, this should be the last car to have a V8 in it before the fun-police finally have their way. You can get a 550bhp twin turbo X5 yet the supercar is a 3 cylinder diesel? Besides in the scheme of things these cars are going to be built in tiny numbers of complete insignificance to the polar bear. This technology seems fantastic, stick it in a 3 series at sensible money and ill have one, but not in the supercar. Its the same with Ferrari and the way they are going, it's mainly for publicity not for saving the planet. they talked about that the M1 version would get at least a in-line 6 plus some green stuff, but also possible a small V8 with those goodies.
the first (and yet only M1) also uses a I-6 engine.
to be fare, I hope it will be a small V8...they can use the M3 V8 or bore it to 4.5 like the GTS m3 so 450hp and some elec green goodies to get it around 650hp or so...would be nice when they get it light.
the first (and yet only M1) also uses a I-6 engine.
to be fare, I hope it will be a small V8...they can use the M3 V8 or bore it to 4.5 like the GTS m3 so 450hp and some elec green goodies to get it around 650hp or so...would be nice when they get it light.
GTRene said:
they talked about that the M1 version would get at least a in-line 6 plus some green stuff, but also possible a small V8 with those goodies.
the first (and yet only M1) also uses a I-6 engine.
to be fare, I hope it will be a small V8...they can use the M3 V8 or bore it to 4.5 like the GTS m3 so 450hp and some elec green goodies to get it around 650hp or so...would be nice when they get it light.
Twas an I6 triple turbo with KERS wasn't it? 450-odd BHP?the first (and yet only M1) also uses a I-6 engine.
to be fare, I hope it will be a small V8...they can use the M3 V8 or bore it to 4.5 like the GTS m3 so 450hp and some elec green goodies to get it around 650hp or so...would be nice when they get it light.
Mr Gear said:
Kong said:
Twincam16 said:
Problem is, the more the traditionalists harrumph and hector about 'just sticking a V8 in it' and dismissing climate-change legislation - no matter how 'right' you think you are, you WILL get left behind.
I agree that cars need to adapt to the world around them. But this is a supercar, this should be the last car to have a V8 in it before the fun-police finally have their way. You can get a 550bhp twin turbo X5 yet the supercar is a 3 cylinder diesel? Besides in the scheme of things these cars are going to be built in tiny numbers of complete insignificance to the polar bear. This technology seems fantastic, stick it in a 3 series at sensible money and ill have one, but not in the supercar. Its the same with Ferrari and the way they are going, it's mainly for publicity not for saving the planet. I don't see why it has to go in the supercar first. If they technology exists then just put it in the 3 series and be done with it. Thats what Toyota did with the Prius and they flew off the shelves.
Seems such a waste that BMW make some of the best performance engines in the world yet wouldnt put one in their only supercar. Lets hope they offer both then everyone can be happy.
Kong said:
You can phrase that both ways though. Would a Ferrari F430 or Ford GT be better off with a 3 cylinder diesel hybrid?
Yep 100% betterYou see the Supercar as a supercar
The manufacturers see them as a thing to make money, and to get their name across and to raise brand value.
The current fashion is eco weeny and many many folk will love to point to their supercar parked outside an expensive place in a city and say its a 3 cylinder diesel hybrid.
If supercar buyers only cared about performance they would all be buying radicals not lardarse supercars with electric windows.
thinfourth2 said:
Kong said:
You can phrase that both ways though. Would a Ferrari F430 or Ford GT be better off with a 3 cylinder diesel hybrid?
Yep 100% betterYou see the Supercar as a supercar
The manufacturers see them as a thing to make money, and to get their name across and to raise brand value.
The current fashion is eco weeny and many many folk will love to point to their supercar parked outside an expensive place in a city and say its a 3 cylinder diesel hybrid.
If supercar buyers only cared about performance they would all be buying radicals not lardarse supercars with electric windows.
If a future supercar has been designed around a hybrid electric drive it will work best with that. If it was designed for a hybrid drive and you rammed a v8 into the chassis it would be worse for it. To put the v8 in you have to redesign the chassis Venom style.
Edited by ctallchris on Wednesday 10th November 13:16
thinfourth2 said:
Kong said:
You can phrase that both ways though. Would a Ferrari F430 or Ford GT be better off with a 3 cylinder diesel hybrid?
Yep 100% betterI know exactly what you are saying. Promote the technology with a halo car to gain sales down the range.
But the supercar is worse for it
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