RE: Driven: Lotus Evora S

[SFO]

The Pits said:

...and by the way bespoke colours are £2k... and I have the reflex charcoal paint codes...

Lotus pricing on colours is very cheeky .. as bad if not worse than Porsche

2 flat no cost colours (4 for Porsche)
£600 for some metallics
£1000 for lifestyle metallics
£2000 for Premium metallics

[The Pits]

612 posts and I'll wager all of them as dreary as a November wednesday.

And I'll also wager porsche charge at least twice as much for bespoke paint.

£2k, or the same as premium paint, for a one off colour is entirely reasonable I think.

Edited by The Pits on Tuesday 9th November 19:43

[kambites]

SFO said:

Interior impressions are important, it gives non car fanatics a feel of whether the car is well made, and whether it is made of quality materials. On both counts, it fails.

This is the key bit, and is where Lotus have to improve. They cannot afford to aim cars solely at driving enthusiasts, in the markets that they want to move into. The feel of interior plastics has bugger all bearing on how reliable a car will be, but that doesn't stop people from equating the two.

Of course from what I've seen of Evoras, they need to improve actual reliability as well, but in many respects I think that's less important when chasing sales figures.

[Kong]

I'm not normally one to complain about the weight of modern cars. I often feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall when people moan that a new model weighs alot more than its 20 year old equivalent and can't see why.

But..

HEAVIER than a 911?!!! Lotus can't be trying.

Edited by Kong on Tuesday 9th November 20:13

[DJC]

That paint is cheap. Pits and I are veterans of TVR paint costs

Kambites...er, simply...no. Porsche interiors are shocking. Nasty, nasty shocking. I will happily accept this is not so before the 996, but there is a night and day difference from the 993-996+ in terms of interior quality. Alas we have 2 examples in the family, which made for amusing discussions when I had TVRs and Lancias

[DJC]

That paint is cheap. Pits and I are veterans of TVR paint costs

Kambites...er, simply...no. Porsche interiors are shocking. Nasty, nasty shocking. I will happily accept this is not so before the 996, but there is a night and day difference from the 993-996+ in terms of interior quality. Alas we have 2 examples in the family, which made for amusing discussions when I had TVRs and Lancias

[cathalm]

cathalm said:

Better interior my heiny.

I suppose nothing really put me off the Evora, it was a close call. A lotus man at Goodwood as much as told me there would be a supercharged car at Paris and that had something to do with it. Also thought the Aston was great, albeit in different ways and I was concerned about the depreciation on a new car too.

If I'm honest though, the Evora was about the best drivers car I'd tried in yonks but what I really want is a new Esprit. In the end I think I thought I'd have the Aston now, and all being well an Evora S or new Esprit next time around. That is still the plan but the new Elan also tickles my fancy.

[RichB]

DJC said:

That paint is cheap. Pits and I are veterans of TVR paint costs

Kambites...er, simply...no. Porsche interiors are shocking. Nasty, nasty shocking. I will happily accept this is not so before the 996, but there is a night and day difference from the 993-996+ in terms of interior quality. Alas we have 2 examples in the family, which made for amusing discussions when I had TVRs and Lancias

You can say that again...

[kambites]

Interesting. I've never actually seen bits fall off the inside of a Porsche (which is more than I can say of Lotuses).

I have spent relatively little time in a 996 though, and they have a reputation for being worst.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th November 22:39

[Maiathualdar]

Doshy said:

Maiathualdar said:

My evora had engine failiures every 500 miles...

Whoa.....tell us more. I'm quite interested in the idea of an 'S' rag top which is apparently on the way.

The engine failliures where:
3 of 6 cylinders went out so it was like driving a tractor
sometimes the engine just went out while driving
not amused I can asure you!
Lotus took my first evora back due to the problem and gave me a new one after about 5 months. The second one had the same problem...After another 6 months with problems I bought a Ferrari and gave the evora back to the dealer and told him i wanted my money back! 2 weeks later, end of october, he phoned me that they foud the problem...the car stil is at the lotusdealer, I have had enough...

[tallmat]

The previous post is sad to hear, but not typical of the feedback I've recieved from quite a few owners, including two owners who bought Evora soon after launch. I wouldn't consider buying one unless I was satisfied the thing will be reliable. On build quality then I've only been in 2+2s and, yes, the build quality is tangibly below Audi and Porsche (993, then current models), but it's better than a lot of the posts here would suggest.

As for this Porsche comparison, then I still have bad memories of 996 RMS. Not just the inexcusable meachanical failures, but the arrogance and shocking denial of Porsche UK. Check any Porsche forum.

Finally servicing costs of Porsche are off the chart now. I've owned quite a few.

To me Porsche still make some great cars (and some awful kit that devalues the brand: Panamera and Cayman). Undoubtedly they drive well. But so does any high performance BMW, Audi or Merc.

And as I said earlier, the ubiquity of Porsche devalues the owenrship experience. It's just another high volume German brand alongside BMW, Audi or Merc. Hence the chronic depreciation you get with most Porkers now.

Even if Lotus ownership involves some compromise (as it does with most low volume manufacturers), but to me it's worth for being in something truly special -- and part of that sensation is that they're less common.

Edited by tallmat on Wednesday 10th November 07:31

Edited by tallmat on Wednesday 10th November 07:46

[Asterix]

juansolo said:

with the compromised ride of the Cayman

Yeah - st ride...

I'm sure the Lotus is very good but the Cayman is not compromised by any stretch of the imagination.

[Porscheplayer]

The Pits said:

612 posts and I'll wager all of them as dreary as a November wednesday.

And I'll also wager porsche charge at least twice as much for bespoke paint.

£2k, or the same as premium paint, for a one off colour is entirely reasonable I think.

Edited by The Pits on Tuesday 9th November 19:43

Pits, if you disagree with something, is there any need to be so huffy/rude about it.

Other posters opinions are as valid as yours and it doesn't help to start insulting people.


Regarding, Evora sales

Information I've gleamed from a few sources. My Lotus sales bod mentioned the cars "hadn't been flying out of the showroom".
If you look on Piston heads classifieds section you will see new 2010 cars for starting at 47K, a fair chunk of the list price. Also autocar had a piece on the Evora, how it wasn't a strong seller (but being autocar that could be complete rubbish)
The cars I've looked at haven't been the complete package, until there are Lotus will always struggle regardless of how good it drives.

Posters keep mentioning the 996, that's a car with a interior released in 1998, if you're going to compare interiors or anything else it should be with cars of the same year not something which is 12 yrs old

[juansolo]

Asterix said:

juansolo said:

with the compromised ride of the Cayman

Yeah - st ride...

I'm sure the Lotus is very good but the Cayman is not compromised by any stretch of the imagination.

Have you driven and Evora back-to-back with a Cayman? I did, here. The Cayman's ride is far more firm than it needs to be and if you live anywhere that has far from perfect roads, you very much know about it. FWIW gen 2 and PASM equipped cars are better, but they're still on the firm side. Coming from an Elise, you notice this straight away. It's the old perception of firm=sporty so it obviously handles better, which Lotus have proved to be nonsense. You can have good ride AND handling, even in a heavy car. Even I made a lot of noise about the Evora's weight until I drove one. That car does not feel like it's heavier than a Cayman, quite the opposite even though we know that's not true. It's a testament to the genius setup of the Evora.

Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 10th November 11:10

[tallmat]

Porscheplayer said:

The Pits said:

612 posts and I'll wager all of them as dreary as a November wednesday.

And I'll also wager porsche charge at least twice as much for bespoke paint.

£2k, or the same as premium paint, for a one off colour is entirely reasonable I think.

Edited by The Pits on Tuesday 9th November 19:43

Pits, if you disagree with something, is there any need to be so huffy/rude about it.

Other posters opinions are as valid as yours and it doesn't help to start insulting people.


Regarding, Evora sales

Information I've gleamed from a few sources. My Lotus sales bod mentioned the cars "hadn't been flying out of the showroom".
If you look on Piston heads classifieds section you will see new 2010 cars for starting at 47K, a fair chunk of the list price. Also autocar had a piece on the Evora, how it wasn't a strong seller (but being autocar that could be complete rubbish)
The cars I've looked at haven't been the complete package, until there are Lotus will always struggle regardless of how good it drives.

Posters keep mentioning the 996, that's a car with a interior released in 1998, if you're going to compare interiors or anything else it should be with cars of the same year not something which is 12 yrs old

PP, Pits didn't say anything that rude, perhaps it's just that Porsche advocats can't take criticism as well as other brand loyalists??

You make a valid comment about Evora sales, but many (including me) held off, knowing there was a more pokey one under development. And, to be fair, I probably thought I'll let them iron out the bugs before committing.

Comments about the 996 illustrate the sea change in Porsche ethos. The abandonment of quality above all else, and the move to mass production and relentless pursuit of profit. No issue with that if it serves the interest of shareholders. But Ferrari deliberatly stayed away from that, and I know which is the more prestigous brand today.

I had severeal 996s (inc. turbo and GT2) and they were good in varying proportions.

On used Evora, then the below £50k cars have some mileage. You'd expect a discount with any brand. But don't try to compare Evora depreciation against 911. Owning the latter will cost you more.

[DJC]

I said 996+. There was a reason for that.

The 997 and its brother interior in the latest Boxsters are no better. The leather is still cheap. the plastics are still plastics. The ergonomics are still crap. Its still fiddley and annoying.

Now Im not defending the interior of an Evora, Ive never sat in one, but a bugbear of mine for a long time now has been the quality in general of Porsche over the last 10yrs. The 2 main areas this shows up have been in their interiors and in simply dealing with them - they have become a horrible company to deal with. Ive been banging this drum for at least the last 5yrs and for a while it was a lonely band, but Im glad over the last cpl of yrs ppl have woken up to what Porsche have become. Now I dont have Pits rabid hatred of Porsche and esp the 911, Ive been a long time champion of the 996TT as possibly the most complete car ever made, but the company under Wenderlin became something different to what it had been before and it was largely detrimental to customers. Im hoping this changes for the better again now.

[kambites]

tallmat said:

PP, Pits didn't say anything that rude, perhaps it's just that Porsche advocats can't take criticism as well as other brand loyalists??

Whilst this is undoubtedly true, they do often seem to have more reason to as well. Porsche fans seem to believe their cars cannot be bettered, and a significant proportion of non-Porsche fans seem to believe that anything is better. Which is a shame really because it does rather stifle reasoned debate when both sides take things so personally.

[tallmat]

kambites said:

tallmat said:

PP, Pits didn't say anything that rude, perhaps it's just that Porsche advocats can't take criticism as well as other brand loyalists??

Whilst this is undoubtedly true, they do often seem to have more reason to as well. Porsche fans seem to believe their cars cannot be bettered, and a significant proportion of non-Porsche fans seem to believe that anything is better. Which is a shame really because it does rather stifle reasoned debate when both sides take things so personally.

Fair comment but it don't apply to me. All my posts acknowledge that 911s and Boxsters are great. I've owned enough to say that based on experience! What I've criticised is the ownership experience as so vividly described above by DJC.

You're right there isn't always a balance in this parish; but take a look at football forums for some real warped bias!

Edited by tallmat on Wednesday 10th November 10:38

[The Pits]

As ever though this is an article about a new Lotus. For some reason that completely escapes me, porsche loyalists have the time and inclination to come and slate Lotus and their owners. Most of them have never driven a Lotus, let alone an Evora. I honestly don't know why they feel so threatened by a car which, even if wildly successful, will still only sell in tiny numbers compared to any porsche, yes even the panamera. The very thought that someone might have the audacity to prefer another brand seems to irritate them. They seem to be incredulous that a person could be so stupid they are blind to porsche's obvious superiority.

We very rarely see fans of other marques invading Lotus threads with their trademark blend of arrogance and gloomy negativity.

I have no interest in going to a porsche forum to share my views, which are generally not positive towards porsche. I find this behaviour peculiar.

Then again, so is a person of sound mind wanting to own a fast car with an engine placed behind the rear axle.

[kambites]

tallmat said:

kambites said:

tallmat said:

PP, Pits didn't say anything that rude, perhaps it's just that Porsche advocats can't take criticism as well as other brand loyalists??

Whilst this is undoubtedly true, they do often seem to have more reason to as well. Porsche fans seem to believe their cars cannot be bettered, and a significant proportion of non-Porsche fans seem to believe that anything is better. Which is a shame really because it does rather stifle reasoned debate when both sides take things so personally.

Fair comment but it don't apply to me. All my posts acknowledge that 911s and Boxsters are great. I've owned enough to say that based on experience! What I've criticised is the ownership experience as so vividly described above by DJC.

You're right there isn't always a balance in this parish; but take a look at football forums for some real warped bias!

I wasn't trying to apply it to anyone in particular, and certainly not to you. Sorry if it came across that way.