RE: Driven: Lotus Evora S

RE: Driven: Lotus Evora S

Author
Discussion

Dagnut

3,515 posts

192 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
kambites said:
British Beef said:
Dr Evil said:
Fact is Lotus doesn't have enough recent heritage in that price/performance range to appeal to the market.
I think this is one of the most bullsh!t statements on this thread, and there have been quite a few!
I'm not so sure. The stereotypical target market for this segment is something like: 35-45; male; lives in suburbia and works in the city; and has little interest in cars beyond what they say about him in the work car park. The closest he'll come to enjoying driving is the kick in the back he gets when he puts his foot down, however it is important that Top Gear tells him (and more crucially his colleagues) that his car is a proper enthusiasts' car. In top trumps terms, a 911 means a quality German sports car with oodles of history and pedigree; a Lotus badge means a fine handling plastic kit car with a Toyota engine.

Obviously this doesn't account for all buyers in the market, but it's a frightening proportion (on here, it's easy to forget how big a proportion, because that end of the market isn't likely to be interested in Pistonheads) and that is something that Lotus have to deal with. None of this has any bearing on whether the Evora is a better car than a 911, but I suspect it will be what determines whether it sells.


Of course once you get into the Esprit type market, the buyers head even more that way. What proportion of V8 Ferrari buyers have a significant interest in driving? How many of the things never even leave London?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 11th November 16:52
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Who conducted your market research?

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
Who conducted your market research?
Me, obviously. smile

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I had any source beyond my own observations. But (to my mind at least) it is fairly clear that expensive sports (and not-so-expensive for that matter, as someone pointed out above, the Elise is certainly not immune from the phenomenum) cars are more often bought new as status symbols than driving machines.

Out of interest do you disagree? Do you believe that more than 50% of ~70k sports cars are bought new primarily for their tangible benefits?

Dagnut

3,515 posts

192 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
kambites said:
Dagnut said:
Who conducted your market research?
Me, obviously. smile

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I had any source beyond my own observations. But (to my mind at least) it is fairly clear that expensive sports (and not-so-expensive for that matter, as someone pointed out above, the Elise is certainly not immune from the phenomenum) cars are more often bought new as status symbols than driving machines.

Out of interest do you disagree? Do you believe that more than 50% of ~70k sports cars are bought new primarily for their tangible benefits?
You could be right, I probably wouldn't be so scathing of the buyers but seems a bit harsh. If you can only have one car- which is a situation a lot of Londoners especially, find themselves in its hard to look past a German sports coupé > when you look at performance, reliability, comfort, something to put some shopping in and something to keep the missus happy- something she'll happily drive.

Dr Evil

53 posts

277 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
British Beef said:
Dr Evil said:
Fact is Lotus doesn't have enough recent heritage in that price/performance range to appeal to the market.
I think this is one of the most bullsh!t statements on this thread, and there have been quite a few!

Percieved reliability, resuidual value uncertainty and relative lack of a dealers, I would suggest are closer to the mark, limiting "appeal to the market", all of which the established players (in this price range) have covered.
Isn't that the point? - if you are a rational punter with 60K+ to spend on a sportscar, you want quality, reliability, residual value etc ontop of performance and handling. You want a great car and but you also want to feel you didn't make a catastrophic buying decision. Brand and heritage is therefore a crucial element to give you confidence.

Has Lotus has demonstrated that they can deliver Porsche quality consistently in the 60K price range? It will take 5-10 years to do so. In the meantime, Evora buyers are going to be much more individualistic than Porsche buyers. And Lotus will have to continue to build cars even better than the competition to win over new fans and build their brand in that segment.





kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
You could be right, I probably wouldn't be so scathing of the buyers but seems a bit harsh. If you can only have one car- which is a situation a lot of Londoners especially, find themselves in its hard to look past a German sports coupé > when you look at performance, reliability, comfort, something to put some shopping in and something to keep the missus happy- something she'll happily drive.
I agree and I wasn't really trying to belittle the people who bought them, or criticising their choice. I was just saying that they probably aren't all that bothered by the performance and handling that the cars offer, since they will rarely, if ever, use them. Yes, some people will take their car out of the city for hoons at the weekend, but most that I know certainly don't.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
kambites said:
I wasn't really trying to belittle the people who bought them, or criticising their choice. I was just saying that they probably aren't all that bothered by the performance and handling that the cars offer, since they will rarely, if ever, use them. Yes, some people will take their car out of the city for hoons at the weekend, but most that I know certainly don't.
Fact is - the car business is rapidly polarising between "white goods" and "bling".

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Thursday 11th November 2010
quotequote all
5 USA said:
Fact is - the car business is rapidly polarising between "white goods" and "bling".
I'm not sure that it's a new thing? I think that's always been the case.

Porscheplayer

381 posts

189 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
The Pits said:
You're still doing it, even now, still can't believe how it's possible not to like 911s.

I'm really happy for anyone that likes both. And I'm envious of people who don't give a stuff where their car is built, quite unbothered that companies like TVR have gone to the wall. Bully for you.

As for me not liking Porsches, you're all just going to have to live with it I'm afraid.
You’re taking me the wrong way mate; I wondered if you'd actually driven them, that's all. No offensive intended

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Friday 12th November 2010
quotequote all
Sorry I've done the whole 'why I don't like 911s' explanation to death. I can't be arsed to go into it again. I'd much rather discuss the Evora S.

But I have driven a turbo 'fully lit' as you put it. A 996 Turbo with 550bhp as it happens. Among other things, I lapped the nurburgring in it. It remains one of the fastest cars I've ever driven.

seashell

2 posts

181 months

Sunday 14th November 2010
quotequote all
Just driven a standard evora, the build quality is fine, the dealership spot on, superb drive with sports exhaust, sounded great. The gear change and gearbox were also perfect, running costs and depreciation should be on a par with other lotus cars which all beat the rivals. I don't see what everybody is moaning about.

shoestring7

6,138 posts

245 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
seashell said:
Just driven a standard evora, the build quality is fine, the dealership spot on, superb drive with sports exhaust, sounded great. The gear change and gearbox were also perfect, running costs and depreciation should be on a par with other lotus cars which all beat the rivals. I don't see what everybody is moaning about.
You waited 21 months for that?

SS7

Porscheplayer

381 posts

189 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
seashell said:
Just driven a standard evora, the build quality is fine, the dealership spot on, superb drive with sports exhaust, sounded great. The gear change and gearbox were also perfect, running costs and depreciation should be on a par with other lotus cars which all beat the rivals. I don't see what everybody is moaning about.
There's always one! smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
kambites said:
5 USA said:
Fact is - the car business is rapidly polarising between "white goods" and "bling".
I'm not sure that it's a new thing? I think that's always been the case.
I think it's develped over time. You can now buy a properly engineered car with pretty much all the modern toys at a very low starting price and that's pretty much turned basic cars into disposable white goods. Even a great car little like Fiesta starts a whisker under £10k.

Overall, the gap between the top and the bottom of the market is much wider than it used to be. The bottom has come "down" and the top has gone "up".

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
One positive lotus comment in 21 months is about the going rate!

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
Drove the Evora on Sat with salesman (who is a Lotus instructor) over a range of roads.

Very impressive car.

Quiet, superb ride, wonderful steering feel and telepathic handling. It's like a shrunken luxury car with real sports car handling and dynamics.

Engine was suprisingly grunty, but no doubt the Evora S will be much better.

Gearbox was OK if a bit too far away for me.

Engine and exhaust noise disappointing, but again the S should sort that out.

On top of all that, people let you out of junctions.

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
Glad you enjoyed it. The Evora is far from perfect but it's impressive how a small company from Norfolk can take on and in some areas beat the well funded establishment. The greatest compliment paid the Evora to date was from the Ferrari engineer on the 458 launch who asked a british journalist how he thought the 458's steering compared with the Evora.

How did you get on with the Elise SC?

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
The Pits said:
How did you get on with the Elise SC?
Elise SC didn't feel as fast as I thought it would. Still great fun, but too raw and too noisy for a soft old fart like me. I really like the shape though.

The ride was substantially more fidgety than the Evora and the steering feel less 'pure'. I suspect that the tyre pressures weren't quite right though. Also, dealer does not have demo, so can't have unaccompanied test drives, unlike the Evora S (to come).

You sit very low in an Elise, and although it feels snug and would be fanstastic on track, it would not work so well in A roads and M-ways passing huge lorries.

I didn't spend enough time in an Elise to come to a definitive conclusion, but the Evora is more what I am looking for to replace the Boxster.


NoelWatson

11,710 posts

241 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
SFO said:
[and would be fanstastic on track,
Are they really that good on track?

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
NoelWatson said:
SFO said:
[and would be fanstastic on track,
Are they really that good on track?
not driven it on track, but you can imagine that a lightweight, small and incredible agile car would be amazing on track

The Pits

4,289 posts

239 months

Monday 15th November 2010
quotequote all
For a standard road car my Elise is amazing on the track.

Sfo I also found the Elise sc to feel not quite as fast as i'd hoped. The 'r' feels as fast but for a shorter time if that makes any sense. The 'r' is more fun but the sc more effective. Again you'd be amazed what difference a naughty pipe makes.