Changes to 2011 MOT Scaremongering???

[sparkybean]

Agree with those except for the remap check. All based around the 'if it is fitted, it must work correctly' mentality. All i can think the remap is trying to combat is emissions, which there is a test for anyway.

[youngsyr]

Welshbeef said:

I've mentioned a few times re ved or comp car tax being charged incorrectly due to remapping.

It's no different to theft yet when I highlighted it there was a lot of pushback from what I can only assume are those with a vested interest ie remapped cars. Probably the vast majority legal from an INS point of view but from ved they remapped so push out more c02 so should pay more. Just as they don't agree with the law doesn't mean it should be not paid.

First of all, I would imagine the vast majority of cars that are tuned were already in the highest tax band for their year to start with.

Secondly, how do you propose that those modified cars that aren't already in the highest tax band go about having their CO2 emissions checked, and who pays for the test if the CO2 level is the same or lower?

Finally, no doubt all cars vary in their emissions output even from new, let alone once they've been abused for a few years. Do you believe that modified cars that aren't running their official CO2 output should be tested, but unmodified cars that aren't running their official CO2 levels shouldn't?

[aeropilot]

Olivera said:

The only alternative is to ban any and all ECU modifications completely.

I'm sure that is the intention with TUV approval, as already applies in some EU states. If the part/ECU/widget/whatever doesn't have TUV approval certificates it can't be fitted.

[youngsyr]

aeropilot said:

Olivera said:

The only alternative is to ban any and all ECU modifications completely.

I'm sure that is the intention with TUV approval, as already applies in some EU states. If the part/ECU/widget/whatever doesn't have TUV approval certificates it can't be fitted.

Pointless: many car's ECUs can be remapped with no visible sign from the exterior. For many it would also take a lot of investigating with diagnostic software to determine whether they had been remapped.

Some cars, such as the Evo FQ cars are remapped by their offical distributors after they reach the UK (Evos are built in Japan) to achieve different power levels.

You would have to know which each timing and fuel map on each car looked like to be able to tell the difference between them.

[anonymous-user]

If the idea was to reduce Co2 polution, wouldn't it just be better to teach people how to drive economically?? The total amount "extra" CO2 generated by "chipped" cars is negligible, because how much of the time do you use any of the extra performance on todays roads. Whereas i reguarily hear people driving in 2nd gear when they should be in 4th, or leaving it in 5th not 6th on the motorway, or accelerating hard, just to have to brake for the next red light.

unfortunately as the MOT has to be applied to all road cars, and to be relatively quick and easy test, it just cannot actually really police anything useful. Probably the only real thing it catches is bald tyres and failed bulbs tbh (and i havent actually seen an statistics to show either of those actually is bad in reality)

My trackday car already "fails" an MOT becuase i took off the brake servo, which on an otherwise std car should be checked, but in my case i fitted £10k's worth of 380mm AP racing 6 pots and pedal box, so not having the brake servo is no performance defficit........

[mcford]

CO2 is not measured on the MOT. The only gas measured is CO, which is measured as a percentage, the other things measured are hydrocarbons in parts per million and lambda which has no units. If CO2 were to be measured, the tester will get a figure in percent, how would this be equated to the VED bands where it is calculated in grams per kilometre?

[maser_spyder]

ECU has to be BS.

My car will only plug in to SD3 diagnostics, which is £15k to buy and about £1k a month for the updates. Can't see my local grease monkeys shelling out that sort of dough just to MOT my car once a year....

[Mr GrimNasty]

If there is any increase in outlay required by the MOT stations, then you can bet the price of the MOT will go up a lot (not that it won't anyway).

The airbags is interesting, many cars state a 10/12/15 year life, after which they have to be replaced. If the ECU 'times out' and flicks on the light, the vast majority of cars will not be economic to keep on the road once the airbags need replacing.

[busta]

So if you re-mapped a car to produce significantly less CO2 for the MOT (not particularly difficult on a diesel) would they drop it a tax band?

On my mechanical fuel pump equipped volvo I can turn the pump and turbo boost down so it barely has enough power to move (as opposed to having just enough power to move). The emissions like that would be next to nothing, so surely I deserve to be in the £0 tax band?

[frosted]

I cant wait till the crappy hids get taken off the road , hope its soon and policed properly. Grrrrrr.......

[Hedders]

Mr GrimNasty said:

The airbags is interesting, many cars state a 10/12/15 year life, after which they have to be replaced. If the ECU 'times out' and flicks on the light, the vast majority of cars will not be economic to keep on the road once the airbags need replacing.

That should stimulate the car market . I am still concerned about what this might mean for pre-airbag cars!

[D900SP]

If, and that is a big IF, comes about, this sounds very much like the vehicle manufacturers planning to sell more vehicles, whether customers want to buy or not.
Planned obsolescense could be the phrase to describe it.
Much like the Japanse road worthiness test, the "shaken", could be close to that. Although I beleive the test parameters were changed a while ago.

[300bhp/ton]

Welshbeef said:

I've mentioned a few times re ved or comp car tax being charged incorrectly due to remapping.

It's no different to theft yet when I highlighted it there was a lot of pushback from what I can only assume are those with a vested interest ie remapped cars. Probably the vast majority legal from an INS point of view but from ved they remapped so push out more c02 so should pay more. Just as they don't agree with the law doesn't mean it should be not paid.

But that makes HUGE assumptions. What about a remap that improves fuel efficiency, so that it is likely lower Co2.

Or a remap that changes the tune to make better use of superunleaded octane levels, so same co2 level.

Or a remap to improve throttle response, delete torque management, alter shift points. Again no change on Co2.


Also as I said above, MoT only does static emissions tests, so parts per million or percentage. VED is calculated on Co2 g/km. So vehicle weight and size also has a bearing on the emissions it produces.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Wednesday 10th November 07:42

[300bhp/ton]

aeropilot said:

Olivera said:

The only alternative is to ban any and all ECU modifications completely.

I'm sure that is the intention with TUV approval, as already applies in some EU states. If the part/ECU/widget/whatever doesn't have TUV approval certificates it can't be fitted.

I don't see the sense in that at all. A MAP is far more than just for making power. It is and needs to be refined all the time, car makers don't usually create a dingle map and never touch it again. Heel the "M" button in a BMW M5 basically alters or modifies the ECU map and many cars are self learning too.

And as said, if you ban ECU maps, do you suggest banning carb tuning too?

[300bhp/ton]

mcford said:

CO2 is not measured on the MOT. The only gas measured is CO, which is measured as a percentage, the other things measured are hydrocarbons in parts per million and lambda which has no units. If CO2 were to be measured, the tester will get a figure in percent, how would this be equated to the VED bands where it is calculated in grams per kilometre?

Sadly nobody here seems to be listening

[300bhp/ton]

frosted said:

I cant wait till the crappy hids get taken off the road , hope its soon and policed properly. Grrrrrr.......

It's not that much of an issue FFS

[OwenK]

300bhp/ton said:

frosted said:

I cant wait till the crappy hids get taken off the road , hope its soon and policed properly. Grrrrrr.......

It's not that much of an issue FFS

I agree. I don't run HIDs so I don't have a vested interest in the subject, but still I bet that 90% of the HID-type lights that blind you on the road, are actually factory fit & just haven't been adjusted properly by the lazy owner.

[aeropilot]

OwenK said:

but still I bet that 90% of the HID-type lights that blind you on the road, are actually factory fit & just haven't been adjusted properly by the lazy owner.

I'd say 90% are non-OEM HID kits rather than factory fit, as you'll find that almost all factory fit can't be adjusted by a lazy owner as by manufacture, they have to be self adjusting.
Mine certainley don't have any method of manual adjustment.

[CooperS]

OwenK said:

300bhp/ton said:

frosted said:

I cant wait till the crappy hids get taken off the road , hope its soon and policed properly. Grrrrrr.......

It's not that much of an issue FFS

I agree. I don't run HIDs so I don't have a vested interest in the subject, but still I bet that 90% of the HID-type lights that blind you on the road, are actually factory fit & just haven't been adjusted properly by the lazy owner.

Just fitted some HIDs by my local specialist and sailed through the MOT my head light beam focus is much better than my flat mates running cheap legal halford lights and I don't blind other road users.

[youngsyr]

300bhp/ton said:

aeropilot said:

Olivera said:

The only alternative is to ban any and all ECU modifications completely.

I'm sure that is the intention with TUV approval, as already applies in some EU states. If the part/ECU/widget/whatever doesn't have TUV approval certificates it can't be fitted.

I don't see the sense in that at all. A MAP is far more than just for making power. It is and needs to be refined all the time, car makers don't usually create a dingle map and never touch it again. Heel the "M" button in a BMW M5 basically alters or modifies the ECU map and many cars are self learning too.

And as said, if you ban ECU maps, do you suggest banning carb tuning too?

The M button won't alter maps in all likelihood, I think it's much more likely that the pushing the button tells the ECU to switch to a different set of maps that are already stored on the ECU.

Likewise "self-learning" ECUs; all the ones I've seen start with a standard set of maps for running under "normal" conditions with additional timing and/or fueling being added or subtracted under certain parameters as dictated by the software programming. Therefore all the information is there to start with.

For what it's worth, most post mid-90s and later ECUs already automatically switch the parameters for running the engine under idle and low load compared to when the car is actually being driven for emission test purposes.

Even complex ECUs therefore do not "alter" or "modify" themselves, they simply run more than one map or possibly interpolate between several maps according to a set algorithm. It's therefore possible to check if the maps and/or software on these ECUs has been interfered with by comparing them to a standard set of maps and algorithms. This may not be easy in many cases unless you have access to the manufacturer's ECU software, but it is certainly possible if you have the will to do it.

Some ECUs even keep track of the amount of times the ECU has been accessed or flashed.

Edited by youngsyr on Wednesday 10th November 10:08