Changes to 2011 MOT Scaremongering???

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

If you are to ban this, then you'd also have to ban everything car tuning or performance related. No more exhaust, intakes, induction kits, cams, ported heads, different engines, different fuels, nitrous oxide and so on.

You win a cookie.

This is exactly what's happened already in parts of the EU and is exactly what the eurocrats are seeking to achieve.

Warnings about this stared a number of years back in various motoring organisations, but essentially the 'modding' industry have adopted the typical 'oestrich' syndrome and all the while bit by bit....we are creaping towards it.

[irodger]

It surprises me to hear people speak of the "point to this" and "they'd never be able to tell so why bother" blah blah.

Its difficult to police just about everything thats illegal in this country, but it doesn't stop these acts being illegal. Think illegal downloading, illegal DVDs, illegal games, hell, the HID kits that people have mentioned are illegal but that doesn't seem to stop people selling/buying/fitting/using them!

Just because it might be difficult to police, don't think for a minute that the government wouldn't make ECU remaps illegal if they thought that it would gain them some Daily Mail votes. "Green Credentials! Ban the gas guzzlers" they'll cry and in one fell swoop anyone with a remapped car is worse than a rapist. Facts need not get in the way of a good headline and these are what governments work too.....

[TheEnd]

There will always be a need to reflash ECUs to change the software, so OBD programming is here to stay.
Reading of a file can take 30 mins+, reprogramming can take longer, and needs stable power supplies etc.

They certainly won't be reprogramming ECUs in an MOT station anyway.

Quite a few manufacturers are now using certalised databases of ECU files, and lots of passwords to get in to reprogram them.
One famous one was BMW with RSA keys for OBD2 programming that was used on their EDC16 diesels.

BMW threw a massive fit when tuners started remapping them as they know the keys couldn't have been cracked, they were shifted out the back door by someone.
Now I think BMW have 2 32bit passwords for OBD programming, and all connections are done via satelite computers that connect straight back to the Fatherland to stop anyone getting their hands on the software.

Even for what is apparently the same software version on an ECU, there are always slight changes in them so the best they can do is look at flash counters, and then check with the manufacturer to see if they were the ones that reflashed the ECU.

Even then, there is stuff around to reset flash counters which was popular of VWs for a time, and there are other ways to reprogam a car without going through the diagnostic port.

[Rockatansky]

irodger said:

the HID kits that people have mentioned are illegal but that doesn't seem to stop people selling/buying/fitting/using them!

In the opinion of the Ministry of Transport that might be so, but AFAIK there have not been any prosecutions.

I'm not saying it's not illegal, I just don't think it's been explored satisfactorily (or at all) in the courts.

On a more general point, this document might be at the root of this fuss:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

[Rockatansky]

aeropilot said:

Warnings about this stared a number of years back in various motoring organisations, but essentially the 'modding' industry have adopted the typical 'oestrich' syndrome and all the while bit by bit....we are creaping towards it.

I never miss an opportunity to quote Martin Niemoller:

[y2blade]

aeropilot said:

300bhp/ton said:

If you are to ban this, then you'd also have to ban everything car tuning or performance related. No more exhaust, intakes, induction kits, cams, ported heads, different engines, different fuels, nitrous oxide and so on.

You win a cookie.

This is exactly what's happened already in parts of the EU and is exactly what the eurocrats are seeking to achieve.

Warnings about this stared a number of years back in various motoring organisations, but essentially the 'modding' industry have adopted the typical 'ostrich' syndrome and all the while bit by bit....we are creaping towards it.

+1
yep

it is happening, and it is coming our way....I can't see it missing us tbh

[Dracoro]

Rockatansky said:

aeropilot said:

Warnings about this stared a number of years back in various motoring organisations, but essentially the 'modding' industry have adopted the typical 'oestrich' syndrome and all the while bit by bit....we are creaping towards it.

I never miss an opportunity to quote Martin Niemoller:

In his world, was EVERYONE a socialist, trade unionist or jew?

Were there NO people from the middle or right? No christians, muslims etc.?

[youngsyr]

Dracoro said:

Rockatansky said:

aeropilot said:

Warnings about this stared a number of years back in various motoring organisations, but essentially the 'modding' industry have adopted the typical 'oestrich' syndrome and all the while bit by bit....we are creaping towards it.

I never miss an opportunity to quote Martin Niemoller:

In his world, was EVERYONE a socialist, trade unionist or jew?

Were there NO people from the middle or right? No christians, muslims etc.?

Not many muslims, I wouldn't have thought, he was a Christian and there were plenty of people on the right... unfortunately they were Nazis and in power.

[mcford]

300bhp/ton said:

mcford said:

CO2 is not measured on the MOT. The only gas measured is CO, which is measured as a percentage, the other things measured are hydrocarbons in parts per million and lambda which has no units. If CO2 were to be measured, the tester will get a figure in percent, how would this be equated to the VED bands where it is calculated in grams per kilometre?

Sadly nobody here seems to be listening

Oh well, it doesn't really matter. They'll soon listen when I start issuing some VT30s for theses items when they come into force.

[Dracoro]

youngsyr said:

Dracoro said:

Rockatansky said:

aeropilot said:

Warnings about this stared a number of years back in various motoring organisations, but essentially the 'modding' industry have adopted the typical 'oestrich' syndrome and all the while bit by bit....we are creaping towards it.

I never miss an opportunity to quote Martin Niemoller:

In his world, was EVERYONE a socialist, trade unionist or jew?

Were there NO people from the middle or right? No christians, muslims etc.?

Not many muslims, I wouldn't have thought, he was a Christian and there were plenty of people on the right... unfortunately they were Nazis and in power.

True but not all non-lefties were Nazi's either....

However, comparing the Nazi war machine and new MOT laws is a bit far fetched....

Back on topic though, is there actually a source for this that's credible?

I can see the HID/Xenon thing coming in (and rightly so, they should all be self levelling etc. and approved if fitted).

Wiring - a visual check to ensure no obvious hazard is a good idea.

The ECU thing won't happen, it's the least likely thing to happen but it's getting everyone up in arms. Makes it easier to get the other items in though as they will be seen to "compromise" by not checking for chips/maps/etc.

[Rockatansky]

Dracoro said:

However, comparing the Nazi war machine and new MOT laws is a bit far fetched....

You miss my point - which is that people thinking that some form of incoming change which doesn't directly impact them can be dismissed as unimportant, when in fact it may set a precedent for future change which will directly impact them.

Dracoro said:

Back on topic though, is there actually a source for this that's credible?

As posted earlier: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Although credible and EU don't readily mix...

[irodger]

Dracoro said:

I can see the HID/Xenon thing coming in (and rightly so, they should all be self levelling etc. and approved if fitted).

Am I the only person who gets annoyed by 'legally'/OEM fitted HIDs? It doesn't matter if they're self levelling and E-marked or not, the ones fitted to vans, SUVs etc blind me on a regular basis. Legal/OEM ones aren't any better 'in my eyes' if they shine right in at my eye level. I'd have thought this being Pistonheads the MX5 and Elise owners would have noticed this.

[Dracoro]

irodger said:

Dracoro said:

I can see the HID/Xenon thing coming in (and rightly so, they should all be self levelling etc. and approved if fitted).

Am I the only person who gets annoyed by 'legally'/OEM fitted HIDs? It doesn't matter if they're self levelling and E-marked or not, the ones fitted to vans, SUVs etc blind me on a regular basis. Legal/OEM ones aren't any better 'in my eyes' if they shine right in at my eye level. I'd have thought this being Pistonheads the MX5 and Elise owners would have noticed this.

Some are better than others, comes down to the design I suppose. I know what you mean though. I remember being on a motorway and a MK1 TT was behind me. His lights were fine when in behind me in the same lane, however when he was behind me in the adjacent lane, the lights were dazzling and all over the place.

[Dracoro]

Rockatansky said:

Dracoro said:

However, comparing the Nazi war machine and new MOT laws is a bit far fetched....

You miss my point - which is that people thinking that some form of incoming change which doesn't directly impact them can be dismissed as unimportant, when in fact it may set a precedent for future change which will directly impact them.

But I AGREE with the proposals (ecu section excepted but this won't see the light of day anyway), so why would I protest?

Not every change is a precedent for lots of bad things to come otherwise that's just an argument for nothing to ever change (for better or worse).

Rockatansky said:

As posted earlier: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Although credible and EU don't readily mix...

Well, quite. Which section in the doc refers to modified ECU's? Presumably this doc is just a "draft" recommendations, not new laws set in stone, also how to they refer to the MOT?

[0a]

So is this happening? Will any 'chipped' car become an MOT failure?

[Welshbeef]

Cannot wait for HIDs to go far too many blind me it's an accident waiting to happen.

Mapped cars well

[muhuha]

Welshbeef said:

Cannot wait for HIDs to go far too many blind me it's an accident waiting to happen.

Mapped cars well

Have to ask what harm does a mapped car do?

Ask for HID's yea they're a pain in the arse but these hitech lights you find in modern audis and such are just as bad IMO and i can't imagine much being done about them as it's a standard part?

[Vixpy1]

Nothing about mapped cars in the 2012 changes recently announced.

[blaineuk]

the thing about a mapped car is that it produces higher emissions than when built, which should put it in a different road tax band, so the goverment loose out on money.

[Welshbeef]

muhuha said:

Have to ask what harm does a mapped car do?

Ask for HID's yea they're a pain in the arse but these hitech lights you find in modern audis and such are just as bad IMO and i can't imagine much being done about them as it's a standard part?

Mapped cars emissions are higher than the tax band the STD car owners need to pay more VED.
Another moot point is how many declare their cars are mapped??? So x number are uninsured cars due to no declaring the modification.
Mapped cars also in long term suffer injector failure and clutch issues at a higher % than STD cars. So even if they do remove the map and I buy the car I'd be unaware of higher stress and wear than a STD car. So the consumer loses out that's not on in my view.