RE: New Porsche Cayman R Revealed

[JohnGoodridge]

Like this, but still agree with most of the above.

Porsche are still avoiding the fundamental problem, namely that, with their depth of engineering talent they can build a greater mid-engined car than the already great rear-engined one which their brand is built around.

Solutions? Answers on a postcard to Zuffenhausen.

[kambites]

Is it really worth losing air con and the stereo to save a whole 52kg? The chassis and engine changes I can appreciate, but 52kg really isn't much in a car that heavy to start with.

[Marf]

5lab said:

Marf said:

juansolo said:

Marf said:

Should have been there from the beginning. Sports car without an LSD

Elises don't have an LSD and they get on pretty well.

But they'd be better with an LSD, yes? More sporty, able to deliver their power better etc etc?

well 5th gear (Tiff) tested the cayman with an LSD vs the new lotus, and found it was understeery and just wanted to push on under power. He reconed the LSD was to blame, so maybe not.

It'll help you get the power down, but if its set up too tight, it will induce understeer

Do you really think that a manufacturer selling a mass produced car is going to setup a car for anything other than nice, safe understeer?

And if we're going to get into what the talking heads say about the car, what about when Clarkson tested the Cayman S(No LSD) on TopGear? First thing he said was it was understeery unless provoked...

Edited by Marf on Wednesday 17th November 10:50

[RobM77]

Marf said:

5lab said:

Marf said:

juansolo said:

Marf said:

Should have been there from the beginning. Sports car without an LSD

Elises don't have an LSD and they get on pretty well.

But they'd be better with an LSD, yes? More sporty, able to deliver their power better etc etc?

well 5th gear (Tiff) tested the cayman with an LSD vs the new lotus, and found it was understeery and just wanted to push on under power. He reconed the LSD was to blame, so maybe not.

It'll help you get the power down, but if its set up too tight, it will induce understeer

Do you really think that a manufacturer selling a mass produced car is going to setup a car for anything other than nice, safe understeer?

And if we're going to get into what the talking heads say about the car, what about when Clarkson tested the Cayman S(No LSD) on TopGear? First thing he said was it was understeery unless provoked...

Edited by Marf on Wednesday 17th November 10:50

Most road cars are set up for safe handling, but it's a matter of how adjustable they are in the hands of an experienced driver. For instance, in Clarkson's hands my Elise understeered like pig, whereas if you know what you're doing it's fine. LSDs are well known for causing handling issues, personally in a car with 1400kg and 300bhp I'd be quite happy without one (and yes, I've driven a Cayman S on two occasions).

[Marf]

Fair enough, I can see I'm arguing against the tide here, all the same I'll take my cars with an LSD.

[juansolo]

Thorburn said:

juansolo said:

Marf said:

Should have been there from the beginning. Sports car without an LSD

Elises don't have an LSD and they get on pretty well.

If only they knew! I think its optional, but in the press briefing they said something like "We'd prefer people didn't spec it, we've set up the car properly.".

Yup, their comment was that if you wanted to autotest one, then it'd be a good idea to have one. Otherwise the car has been set up not to have one and handles better without it.

Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 17th November 10:56

[juansolo]

Marf said:

Fair enough, I can see I'm arguing against the tide here, all the same I'll take my cars with an LSD.

Provided it's been set up to handle correctly with one in place, then it's no issue. They allow you to get the power down better out of low speed corners which is cool. However if it hasn't been set up right it'll just understeer like a bastid. I personally prefer my Cayman without and don't press the throttle quite so hard out of tight corners.

[Beefmeister]

Garlick said:

I do enjoy Caymans, they are such a pure driving experience and as some have said, it's a shame that it will never be able to compete with the 911 in terms of power and performance.

I want one of these rather badly. Boring? Try driving one.

Exactly. The Cayman S i had for a week a few years ago was possibly the sweetest driving experience i've had. No, it wasn't as fast as a Ferrari, no it wasn't as raw as a 997 GT3, but by God that thing steered and carved a corner like nothing else. Small, nimble, pointy, great looking (IMO).

The is going to be an amazing car. If you slag off the Cayman without driving one, more the fool you.


Though i don't think Chris Harris likes the name going from his Twitter feed...

Monkey on Twitter said:

harrismonkey chris harris
Actually, pre-shower, decided to only call it a Cayman CS when I drive it. In light of this morning, that should be if they let me drive it.
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

harrismonkey chris harris
Steam now oozing from skin pores, off to take cold shower and simmer. Cayman R. Cayman fking RRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Cayman CS.
1 hour ago

harrismonkey chris harris
Not sure I'm making myself clear on this, so will clarify. THIS CAR SHOULD NOT BE CALLED A CAYMAN R. IT'S A TRAVESTY OF MARKETING BULLst.
1 hour ago

harrismonkey chris harris
..badly needs a history lesson. R is even more special than RS. This should have been a CS. Geekery, but this st matters to saddos like me
2 hours ago

harrismonkey chris harris
..SWB 911 running a Carrera 6 motor. Now it uses it on a parts-bin Cayman which, i'm sure will be a great drive. Someone in Zuffenhausen ...
2 hours ago

harrismonkey chris harris
So Porsche uses the R designation for the first time since '67. THE most special model name available. First and last used on a sub-900kg..

[CrisW]

Surely time to offer the full fat engines?

The base model 911 engine could be the top of the line Cayman engine without the world ending surely.

[kambites]

CrisW said:

The base model 911 engine could be the top of the line Cayman engine without the world ending surely.

GT3 RS engine please.

Oh and a proper linear steering rack.

[Wills2]

juansolo said:

Marf said:

Should have been there from the beginning. Sports car without an LSD

Elises don't have an LSD and they get on pretty well.

2WD 911's don't have them either unless the model starts with GT...

[carl carlson]

If I was in the market for this kind of thing I would walk straight past the porsche dealer and straight into the Lotus dealer for my Evora S.

Porsche have missed a trick with this car, a bit more horsey power and a bit more stripped out racerish and it could have been awesome.

[Beefmeister]

If they start putting different engines from the 911 in there it would mean a lot more engineering, and the price would increase massively.

If the Cayman R had been launched with the 340bhp 3.6, a carbon bonnet and other gubbins, with a price tag of £70k, everyone would be moaning about how much it costs. As it is, the R has a bit more more power, a bit less weight, and costs a little bit more. Deal with it.

Edited by Beefmeister on Wednesday 17th November 11:08

[juansolo]

CrisW said:

Surely time to offer the full fat engines?

The base model 911 engine could be the top of the line Cayman engine without the world ending surely.

It could have cooking engines. People who want a 911 buy a 911, that'll never change. They like that it's got odd handling, that's part of the appeal. Some people like their cars to handle correctly and for those people the 911 isn't the upgrade path. Where do we go? Nowhere, because they won't cater for us. Their attitude on race/clubsport Caymans is that 'we race the 911'. That's it. I suppose Ferrari giving them a kicking lately might get them to re-think. But unfortunately the bean counters and marketing teams would have a coronary, and they have far more influence in Porsche than the engineers it seems. Let the Cayman be all it can be. There's a cracking car there just screaming for a big engine and a proper weight reduction. Then it might deserve the badge they've slapped on it.

If Lotus step up their build quality sharpish, they could make a killing now.

Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 17th November 11:11

[Hitch78]

CrisW said:

Surely time to offer the full fat engines?

The base model 911 engine could be the top of the line Cayman engine without the world ending surely.

I agree - a much more powerful stripped out performance Cayman would not steal people away from the Carrera (with its proposition of an everyday supercar) and would be unlikely to canibalise GT3 sales because, well, its a Cayman isn't it?

They should do it to show the capability of the car and just keep the numbers down to special edition volumes if they really are that concerned about the model hierarchy.

ETA - they could probably charge 80-90k for it, maybe more, to cover the engineering costs.

Edited by Hitch78 on Wednesday 17th November 11:11

Edited by Hitch78 on Wednesday 17th November 11:13

[kambites]

Thinking about it, I wonder if Porsche should simply ditch the 911 GT3 RS (surely not many of them sell to people who'd want the 911 badge over the Cayman's handling?) and build a direct replacement based on the Cayman?

[Wills2]

At 4.7 secs to 62 from the PDK model and a 10 secs 100mph dash? IMHO thats more than enough to see off my manual 911 C2S.

In the real world there wouldn't be enough room between these cars to put a sheet of paper.

PH'ers really like to moan...

[Hitch78]

kambites said:

Thinking about it, I wonder if Porsche should simply ditch the 911 GT3 RS (surely not many of them sell to people who'd want the 911 badge over the Cayman's handling?) and build a direct replacement based on the Cayman?

I think most of them sell to people who want the 911 badge. That's half the point.

[Beefmeister]

I'll be very surprised if, at the end of this model's life (after the 998 has come out so there is no 997 GT3 RS on the market) there will be a Cayman RS as a runout with all the stuff you're all whinging about.

It'll have 350bhp+, weigh 100kg less than an S, and will cost £85k with a limited run.

This is a production model, offering basically a Cayman S + 15% in every area.

[kambites]

Hitch78 said:

kambites said:

Thinking about it, I wonder if Porsche should simply ditch the 911 GT3 RS (surely not many of them sell to people who'd want the 911 badge over the Cayman's handling?) and build a direct replacement based on the Cayman?

I think most of them sell to people who want the 911 badge. That's half the point.

Oh OK. I'd assumed they sell to people who want a drivers' car. Maybe I'm being naive.