RE: SOTW: MG-F 1.8 VVC
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
g3org3y said:
kambites said:
g3org3y said:
Why would someone choose this over an equivalent MX5 (honestly)?
It would be newer and/or lower mileage for the money. It's slightly more practicable.
It's debatably better looking.
It's faster in a straight line.
And probably some other things that I haven't thought of.
Enjoyed reading this thread as I usually do anything MG or Rover related on PH.... always both interesting plus good for a giggle.
Unless I missed it, not ONE instance here of reliability negativity about the always recommended Nipponese 2-Seaters over the MGF/TF on this site.
Not to forget, nobody is ever influenced by the occasional TG outburst :~
I know of several that have not done that ... the K-Series Rovers and MGs bought new in my family have been bullet proof reliable from day one... I did change the cylinder head gasket on my MGZS when the coolant level started to drop ~ not much ~ but needed topping up every 3-4 weeks. We'd had the car six years at the time. In so doing I removed a perfectly sound Payen Cylinder Head gasket!! I fitted a MLS type gasket in its place and the head saver shim. A few weeks after doing that job ~ a doddle to do on the K-Series ~ there was a waterfall of coolant under the car as my wife pulled up after a long journey. The water pump had worn out. The progressive coolant loss before was lost via that wearing pump. I need not have bothered to replace the head gasket but, on reflection using the uprated MLS design was a bonus anyway...
Some years ago, I read on another web site where some brave pro-mechanic actually admitted he had replaced 100 Rover head gaskets WHICH DID NOT NEED DOING! I found this hard to believe when I first read that but, following my experience with my MGZS, I now believe he was telling the truth... It's widely regarded as a 'nice little earner' within some parts of the Motor Trade.
I have lost count of the number of times on the various sites I've read of so called HG 'failures' or repeat 'failures' soon after pro-work on their cars ~ including simple routine servicing involving renewal of the all important coolant. I am convinced it is not simply 'bad luck' or 'they all do that'... In my experience, they DON'T! I now suspect that the all important cooling system bleeding, particularly on the mid-engined, rear wheel drive MGF/TFs where it is critical, is not always completed competently.
I have since found out that some clever sod at Rover, BMW or whatever, modified the K-Series water pump design so that those initial coolant drops lost when the Water Pump first starts to wear are 'collected' in an evaporator and are evaporated away unseen... Thus keeping the coolant away from the Timing Belt which could be harmed by the escaping coolant ...Hmmm .. I wonder.... a few drops ... unlikely.
All clever stuff ... except ... I'd prefer to see those first few tell-tale brightly coloured drops of coolant under the car to alert the car user that something is wrong and needs fixing sharpish.
If that 'waterfall' of coolant from my ZS had happened during my wife's long journey ~ particularly at Motorway speeds ~ all the coolant would be lost very rapidly ~ and maybe my wife would not have noticed until it was too late and the engine overheated. We were lucky that it happened just as she was pulling up in front of our garage and I spotted it. The sudden flood of coolant was too much for the evaporator !! The replacement UNIPART water pump I fitted did NOT have the evaporator.
I'd bet money that many so called failures are as a result of worn water pumps. Unless that problem is spotted in good time, resulting severe overheating following cooloant loss on a journey caused the HGFs problem... Not to forget that unless the root cause of the 'failure' is identified and rectified... a repeat is a near certainty. That applies to any car of course. Just ask my colleague who's Toyota I recovered on my twin axle trailer ~ his car needed not only a new cylinder head gasket, but a new cylinder head so bad was the damage caused by the overheating.
Hands up all those PHers with the mindset that Toyotas and Hondas etc, never have such problems...
Hmmm .... that many...
..
So K-Series user ... if your cooling system starts to loose coolant, do not straightaway think "They all do that" because it could well be the Water Pump is wearing out and there's nothing wrong with the cylinder head gasket. Plus, if not the water pump, could simply be a worn coolant pressure cap or perished inlet manifold gasket allowing hot coolant to escape ... into the engine.
Based on my personal family's experience of K-series engines going back nearly twenty years, both new and used cars including a Lotus Elise S2... I can confirm that they don't all do that as many here on PH would have you believe.
Finally, I repeat, renewing the cylinder head gasket on the little K-Series is a doddle....Beware of those who see it as a nice little earner and do not do a thorough job including the all important investigation, identification and rectification of the root cause of the problem in the first place. Sad to report that some pro-outfits ... Not all do that ... only some ...
..
Unless I missed it, not ONE instance here of reliability negativity about the always recommended Nipponese 2-Seaters over the MGF/TF on this site.
Not to forget, nobody is ever influenced by the occasional TG outburst :~
Clarkson's Rodent Sidekick said:
MGFs are Rubbish !!
He being probably the most poisonous anti-MG and Rover height challenged media presenter ... and here I quote his Top Gear tallness...Clarkson said:
In the world
So, purely in the interests of balance, a little tale on this very subject. Until I retired last year, I worked with three women who unusually for their sex, were all interested in cars. Two were early-twenties, going places career type girls each with an example of the much bigged up Nipponese 2-seaters put high on pedestals here on PH. The third a more mature woman with one of the last MGTFs off the production line. As often happens, the chat involved cars as some of my other colleagues were also car enthusiasts. The conversation got around to reliability ~ both the two young women has bills around £1000 for their "never go wrong" Nipponese product ~ serious engine problems and the other gearbox. The third woman's "They all do that" MGTF no problems at all.I know of several that have not done that ... the K-Series Rovers and MGs bought new in my family have been bullet proof reliable from day one... I did change the cylinder head gasket on my MGZS when the coolant level started to drop ~ not much ~ but needed topping up every 3-4 weeks. We'd had the car six years at the time. In so doing I removed a perfectly sound Payen Cylinder Head gasket!! I fitted a MLS type gasket in its place and the head saver shim. A few weeks after doing that job ~ a doddle to do on the K-Series ~ there was a waterfall of coolant under the car as my wife pulled up after a long journey. The water pump had worn out. The progressive coolant loss before was lost via that wearing pump. I need not have bothered to replace the head gasket but, on reflection using the uprated MLS design was a bonus anyway...
Some years ago, I read on another web site where some brave pro-mechanic actually admitted he had replaced 100 Rover head gaskets WHICH DID NOT NEED DOING! I found this hard to believe when I first read that but, following my experience with my MGZS, I now believe he was telling the truth... It's widely regarded as a 'nice little earner' within some parts of the Motor Trade.
I have lost count of the number of times on the various sites I've read of so called HG 'failures' or repeat 'failures' soon after pro-work on their cars ~ including simple routine servicing involving renewal of the all important coolant. I am convinced it is not simply 'bad luck' or 'they all do that'... In my experience, they DON'T! I now suspect that the all important cooling system bleeding, particularly on the mid-engined, rear wheel drive MGF/TFs where it is critical, is not always completed competently.
I have since found out that some clever sod at Rover, BMW or whatever, modified the K-Series water pump design so that those initial coolant drops lost when the Water Pump first starts to wear are 'collected' in an evaporator and are evaporated away unseen... Thus keeping the coolant away from the Timing Belt which could be harmed by the escaping coolant ...Hmmm .. I wonder.... a few drops ... unlikely.
All clever stuff ... except ... I'd prefer to see those first few tell-tale brightly coloured drops of coolant under the car to alert the car user that something is wrong and needs fixing sharpish.
If that 'waterfall' of coolant from my ZS had happened during my wife's long journey ~ particularly at Motorway speeds ~ all the coolant would be lost very rapidly ~ and maybe my wife would not have noticed until it was too late and the engine overheated. We were lucky that it happened just as she was pulling up in front of our garage and I spotted it. The sudden flood of coolant was too much for the evaporator !! The replacement UNIPART water pump I fitted did NOT have the evaporator.
I'd bet money that many so called failures are as a result of worn water pumps. Unless that problem is spotted in good time, resulting severe overheating following cooloant loss on a journey caused the HGFs problem... Not to forget that unless the root cause of the 'failure' is identified and rectified... a repeat is a near certainty. That applies to any car of course. Just ask my colleague who's Toyota I recovered on my twin axle trailer ~ his car needed not only a new cylinder head gasket, but a new cylinder head so bad was the damage caused by the overheating.
Hands up all those PHers with the mindset that Toyotas and Hondas etc, never have such problems...
Hmmm .... that many...
..
So K-Series user ... if your cooling system starts to loose coolant, do not straightaway think "They all do that" because it could well be the Water Pump is wearing out and there's nothing wrong with the cylinder head gasket. Plus, if not the water pump, could simply be a worn coolant pressure cap or perished inlet manifold gasket allowing hot coolant to escape ... into the engine.
Based on my personal family's experience of K-series engines going back nearly twenty years, both new and used cars including a Lotus Elise S2... I can confirm that they don't all do that as many here on PH would have you believe.
Finally, I repeat, renewing the cylinder head gasket on the little K-Series is a doddle....Beware of those who see it as a nice little earner and do not do a thorough job including the all important investigation, identification and rectification of the root cause of the problem in the first place. Sad to report that some pro-outfits ... Not all do that ... only some ...
..
LotusAlfaV6bloke said:
Why wife mentioned that I was out of order for slagging off MGFs, as her close friend bought one in the summer and it has been very reliable. This is true and I felt guilty.
Had a call this afternoon from her mate - the head gasket has gone, can I recomend a mechanic???!!!!
Genius - this has maintained my 100% record of everyone one I know with a K-series having a head gasket fail (see my earlier post on this for added nerd points).
Yes, find someone who really knows these cars... it may NOT be the "They all do that" scenario .... so meantime, put your 100% record on hold.... OTOH, find someone with the "they all do that mindset" and maintain your record... it's obviously important to you ....Sorted.Had a call this afternoon from her mate - the head gasket has gone, can I recomend a mechanic???!!!!
Genius - this has maintained my 100% record of everyone one I know with a K-series having a head gasket fail (see my earlier post on this for added nerd points).
..
LotusAlfaV6bloke said:
Yeah, sorry! Anyone with good recommendations for the proper job on an MGF that is otherwise in good nick will be well received. Car is in Medway, Kent, and won't drive.
I used to spend a lot of time on a Rover Forum and this guy comes highly recommended...http://www.mgroversolutions.com/
CDP said:
Did I mention I had four (yes 4) replacement cylinder heads (not gaskets) for my VW as they had a nasty tendency to crack and hole. The combustion gases get pumped into the coolant and the water escapes very quickly.
No you didn't.... But their cylinder head GASKETS were OK though ... lorra larfs.... All lies of course... It's Geermin so obviously if only everything was as reliable as a Volkswagen...
Not to forget ....
VW TV Advert Guy vending a car said:
"...Just like a Golf..."
Do folks really consume all that reliability just like a golf stuff?Course they do JohnBoy... in their millyons ...
.
I love my wifes Mgf, its the facelift non Vvc model in sienna gold.
I picked it up 2 years ago for just over the sotw price from a dealer who took it as px.
Power and handling is fun and the car is easily to place on the road.
Interior and build quality is not the best, but for the price paid, its beats a 20 year old mx5 in my eyes.
It's a pretty old thang too I reckon
I picked it up 2 years ago for just over the sotw price from a dealer who took it as px.
Power and handling is fun and the car is easily to place on the road.
Interior and build quality is not the best, but for the price paid, its beats a 20 year old mx5 in my eyes.
It's a pretty old thang too I reckon
Edited by Haighermeister on Wednesday 15th December 16:07
yonex said:
Obviously calling yourself 'MG' anything shows you have a deeply unbiased POV yourself 
Pull yourself together PH person...get up off the floor ... all that rofl mullarkey does not become you...No such thing as an unbiased automotive enthusiast ... even you .... Whatever you drive or have driven, you will lean one way or the other at any given moment in time in the known universe ... tis writ.
P.S. I do speak also from experience having bought my first MG nearly half a century ago...
Plus, in all those years of buying and running both Rovers and MGs, none have ever left me stranded by the roadside ..... unlike some other stuff you could purchase....how about you then...
Lets have your unbiased POV... after removal of the proverbial rose tints ...
..
MGJohn said:
Plus, in all those years of buying and running both Rovers and MGs, none have ever left me stranded by the roadside ..... unlike some other stuff you could purchase....how about you then...
Lets have your unbiased POV... after removal of the proverbial rose tints ...
..
Well I am honest enough to like the K but think some of the cars it was used in were pretty dire....including this one.Lets have your unbiased POV... after removal of the proverbial rose tints ...
..
Hmmm - so we are to believe that Rover engines are fine and of a high quality. The headgaskets are not of a poor design and manufacture, how dare we slate the brand... it turns out it was actually the woeful waterpumps all along! If that really is a joint cause of the issue then those pumps are failing at some very low mileages!
It is true that the Japs make their cars to the low standards of Rover, and we at PHs just dont see it yet. We can see that by the fact that the Japanese have failed to export their products globally, whilst Rover is a manufacturer trusted and bought by all cultures round the world, from the deserts to the city centres...
It is true that the Japs make their cars to the low standards of Rover, and we at PHs just dont see it yet. We can see that by the fact that the Japanese have failed to export their products globally, whilst Rover is a manufacturer trusted and bought by all cultures round the world, from the deserts to the city centres...
Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Wednesday 15th December 21:59
K-Series = 100% Head Gasket Failure is as reliable a stance as Lotus = Lots of trouble, usually serious and the Alfa "reputation" for rusting into a pile of dust in no time while all the electrics fail, and anything German is 100% reliable.
<shrug> You can believe those as much or little as you like <shrug>
<shrug> You can believe those as much or little as you like <shrug>
LotusAlfaV6bloke said:
Hmmm - so we are to believe that Rover engines are fine and of a high quality. The headgaskets are not of a poor design and manufacture, how dare we slate the brand... it turns out it was actually the woeful waterpumps all along! If that really is a joint cause of the issue then those pumps are failing at some very low mileages!
It is true that the Japs make their cars to the low standards of Rover, and we at PHs just dont see it yet. We can see that by the fact that the Japanese have failed to export their products globally, whilst Rover is a manufacturer trusted and bought by all cultures round the world, from the deserts to the city centres...
What direct experience of these things do you have....? Considerable I'll wager ... and I like a bet now and again..It is true that the Japs make their cars to the low standards of Rover, and we at PHs just dont see it yet. We can see that by the fact that the Japanese have failed to export their products globally, whilst Rover is a manufacturer trusted and bought by all cultures round the world, from the deserts to the city centres...
Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Wednesday 15th December 21:59
Your determination to see things the way you describe is a possible failure to understand the wider range of possibilities ~ there again, you may be right... Yes, that's it ....
It was the cylinder head gaskets all along....
..
.
My experience is that everyone I know who has had one, has had it fail and they come to me and say "hey, you know about cars, can you look at my Rover and tell whats wrong with it?"
I normally stare for a moment or two at the engine, then stare at them, then stare at the engine again, make note of the fountain pouring from the waterpump, and then tell them to go get their head gasket fixed. I fit them by the way. £500 a pop. (Pun intended).
I normally stare for a moment or two at the engine, then stare at them, then stare at the engine again, make note of the fountain pouring from the waterpump, and then tell them to go get their head gasket fixed. I fit them by the way. £500 a pop. (Pun intended).
Can I add that the head castings were fairly porous throughout production.
From the interweb....
DVA has provided some photographic proof of what has been known for a long time - Rover K series heads can suffer head gasket failure (HGF) due to poor casting and quality control in the Rover foundry. Poor control of hydrogen in the casting process, even after Rover installed a hydrogen scrub for the K series head castings, leads to small voids in the casting that can be big enough to breach the fire ring (as in the image).
From the interweb....
DVA has provided some photographic proof of what has been known for a long time - Rover K series heads can suffer head gasket failure (HGF) due to poor casting and quality control in the Rover foundry. Poor control of hydrogen in the casting process, even after Rover installed a hydrogen scrub for the K series head castings, leads to small voids in the casting that can be big enough to breach the fire ring (as in the image).
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