M3 CSL or Exige S?

[braddo]

John D. said:

Tough decision. As much as I'd love a krypton green Exige S I voted CSL.

It is arguably more special due to its rarity and the driving experience top notch even if it is just a saloon. Then there's that noise and they just look so right. Think others are bang on when they say it will hold value better too.

On the other hand how many powerful saloons has the OP owned? Maybe time for something new.

In terms of being special, rare and holding its value the S1 Exige would be the better one to compare against the CSL, and it would be my choice above both the CSL and S2 Exige.

[Mermaid]

Great Pretender said:

Mermaid said:

Great Pretender said:

Mermaid said:

Lotus will make more special cars in the future.

The CSL will not be surpassed as a great BMW for a long while, if ever.

If it was only one car you could keep, it would certainly be the CSL. Your position is different, and you have already enjoyed the CSL experience, or have you? Reagrdless, you could always opt for the Exige and return to the CSL as so many owners do.

I've had it on track a couple of times and it usually gets a workout on some of the local roads, but in terms of taking it back to its spiritual home, I've yet to experience that. Perhaps I should first?

Apparently the E92 M2 GTS was only a few seconds faster at the 'Ring than the CSL.

So I hear. A gap which would be closed with the fitment of decent brakes to the earlier car.

Here's a link. HTH's


http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4218...



Quote:
Originally Posted by marcel b
A few important coments:

the CSL time is doubted by a lot of people (who know what they are talking about). The the speeds it achieved where just not possible with the power it has, in several areas of the track it was even faster then a 996 GT3RS! which is doubtfull with the HP the CSL should have. So a "standard" CSL would not be able to drive a 07:50.

Compare the following:

Speed comparison between CSL and GTS:

Schwedenkreuz 245Km/h - 250km/h
Aremberg 101Km/h - 98km/h
Fuchsröhre 232Km/h - 237km/h
Metzgesfeld 162Km/h - 154km/h
Bergwerk 106Km/h - 96km/h
Kesselchen 222Km/h - 226km/h
Klostertal 1 167Km/h - 163km/h
Klostertal 2 90Km/h - 91km/h
Pflanzgarten 190Km/h - 186km/h
Galgenkopf 138Km/h - 134km/h
Döttinger Höhe 255Km/h - 261km/h

Please note that the GTS has a better aerodyamics (Cw value) then the CSL (even with the backwing)!

Second, the GTS is on UHP tires, not on semi slicks (Michelin Cups which eg the CSL had), which makes a big difference.
And how many CSL owners do you personally know? Or better still how many CSLs have you driven?

The 7:50 ring time has been repeated and in fact beaten by a couple of regular ring racers; that time is very repeatable.

Fuchsröhre has actually posted a video of his time at the Ring on youtube it was a 7:52 in traffic (not sure if it's still up there) but that was in a completely stock standard car with stock standard brakes (those in the CSL community that know Fuchsrohre will know how much he likes the CSL stock standard brakes and how they are brilliant for hobby drivers - but that's another joke for another day).

[RobM77]

I've driven an Exige S, but I confess I've only driven the standard E46 M3, but for me it would depend how many compromises I wanted to make for the driving experience. If I could live with a loud hum on the motorway, a small boot and two seats, I'd have the Exige S. If I wanted to trade some weight, feedback and handling for two extra seats and better motorway ability, I'd have the M3 CSL.

In actuality though, I'd have what I've got, which is an S2 111S and a 320d No compromises on the motorway and on a cold wet day like this (320d), and no compromises on a beautiful sunny day like Sunday was (Elise).

[stew-S160]

Great Pretender said:

stew-S160 said:

CSL over S2 Exige.
S1 Exige over CSL.

Pour quois?

Pretty obvious really. The S1 Exige would be more of an event than even a CSL. The noise they make is great too, ok, not quite CSL mental, but very good. And for the money of a CSL, you could get a Honda'd/charged S1 Exige which would be quite a bit faster.

[Great Pretender]

stew-S160 said:

Great Pretender said:

stew-S160 said:

CSL over S2 Exige.
S1 Exige over CSL.

Pour quois?

Pretty obvious really. The S1 Exige would be more of an event than even a CSL. The noise they make is great too, ok, not quite CSL mental, but very good. And for the money of a CSL, you could get a Honda'd/charged S1 Exige which would be quite a bit faster.

Hmmm, not many S1s about though and from what I understand, time tends not to be very kind to them.

[stew-S160]

Great Pretender said:

stew-S160 said:

Great Pretender said:

stew-S160 said:

CSL over S2 Exige.
S1 Exige over CSL.

Pour quois?

Pretty obvious really. The S1 Exige would be more of an event than even a CSL. The noise they make is great too, ok, not quite CSL mental, but very good. And for the money of a CSL, you could get a Honda'd/charged S1 Exige which would be quite a bit faster.

Hmmm, not many S1s about though and from what I understand, time tends not to be very kind to them.

Depends on how they are looked after as with any other car.

[Fittster]

For road or track use?

[Great Pretender]

Fittster said:

For road or track use?

Both.

[daz4m]

CSL.

[L100NYY]

CSL -

Positives

Lack of depreciation
Noise
Looks
Grunt
RWD adjustability
GT like touring capabilities for 'ring trips et al
Good looks
Great on track

Negatives

Higher running costs when tracked ie tyres etc
A '3'er' rather than an out-and-out sports car (don't take that the wrong way chum)
Potential for big bills (?)
You've had lots of ///M already

---

Exige S

Positives

One of the great drivers cars with sublime handling and adjustability
Feels like a mini Group C racer
Lightweight = cheap on tyres/brakes/etc when tracked
Slow depreciation
Razor sharp responses
'Tweakability' at low expense ie suspension etc
Properly quick and a real giant killer
Still comfortable enough for euro-trips and 35mpg
Cheap Toyota servicing

Negatives

Lack of space
Characterless engine note (exhaust and airbox this is somewhat rectified)
2 seats

Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 14th December 13:49

Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 14th December 13:55

[Great Pretender]

L100NYY said:

CSL -

Positives

Lack of depreciation
Noise
Looks
Grunt
RWD adjustability
GT like touring capabilities for 'ring trips et al
Good looks
Great on track

Negatives

Higher running costs when tracked ie tyres etc
A '3'er' rather than an out-and-out sports car (don't take that the wrong way chum)
Potential for big bills (?)
You've had lots of ///M already

---

Exige S

Positives

One of the great drivers cars with sublime handling and adjustability
Lightweight = cheap on tyres/brakes/etc when tracked
Slow depreciation
Razor sharp responses
'Tweakability' at low expense ie suspension etc
Properly quick and a real giant killer
Still comfortable enough for euro-trips and 35mpg
Cheap Toyota servicing

Negatives

Lack of space
Characterless engine note (exhaust and airbox this is somewhat rectified)
2 seats

Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 14th December 13:49

Cheers buddy, that's what I hoped this exercise would bring.

So (ignoring any allegiance either way), which would you have?

[RobM77]

L100NYY said:

=CSL= -

Positives

Lack of depreciation
Noise
Looks
Grunt
RWD adjustability
GT like touring capabilities for 'ring trips et al
Good looks
Great on track

Negatives

Higher running costs when tracked ie tyres etc
A '3'er' rather than an out-and-out sports car (don't take that the wrong way chum)
Potential for big bills (?)
You've had lots of ///M already

---

=Exige S=

Positives

One of the great drivers cars with sublime handling and adjustability
Lightweight = cheap on tyres/brakes/etc when tracked
Slow depreciation
Razor sharp responses
'Tweakability' at low expense ie suspension etc
Properly quick and a real giant killer
Still comfortable enough for euro-trips and 35mpg
Cheap Toyota servicing

Negatives

Lack of space
Characterless engine note (exhaust and airbox this is somewhat rectified)
2 seats

Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 14th December 13:47

An excellent summary

I'd like to add noise on the motorway to that though. Maybe it bothers me more than most people, but it's the main reason I run two cars. My Elise was my only car for three years, but on long trips it began to wind me up after a while, so I now run two cars - one for lugging stuff about and motorways, and one for everything else.

Therefore, from my point of view it depends what sort of driving the OP does. If he doesn't do lots of motorway runs and never needs to carry things or people around, the Exige S would win everyday for me. If, however, he needs more practicality, the CSL would be the better car of the two. I've not driven a CSL, but I have driven a standard E46 M3 and E92 M3, and with these sorts of cars, they get good ratings by being fantastic for a saloon car. The Exige is a dedicated ground up designed sports car, and in my opinion (again, not having driven a CSL), it's a far better proposition for actual driving entertainment. I'd still do the two car thing though, it suits me down to the ground. At 6am on a Friday morning when I've got to drive to Silverstone half asleep, I like climbing into a car with loads of sound insulation, 55mpg and 205/55/16s and cruising up the motorway, and at 10am on a sunny Saturday when I'm going to see my parents down a twisty B road, or on a trip down to the coast, I can take the Elise (top down!). I would never swap both for an Exige S - not a chance. I would like to own an Exige S one day though, alongside both my current cars

[LuS1fer]

The M3 on the basis I'm a bit old for track cars and on the basis of having a car that didn't fall apart in your hands.
I suspect I might like the Exige more though....even though I didn't like an Elise 111R at all.

[Chris71]

Seems this is hypothetical - for me at least - I went for the Exige without hesitation. I just find a baby supercar way more appealing on an emotional level than a sports saloon (particularly a Teutonic example) no matter how capable it may be.

The moment you start talking about ownership prospects and whether I'd like to drive it to work in traffic in all weathers it might be a different answer, of course, but on sheer appeal it'd be the Lotus every time.

[CO2000]

williamp said:

CSL you say??



Some people want the flash car, the place in the country. I've already got them...

OT

I can't wait until tomorrow night to see that ball bagg get grilled by the Gestapo interviewers

[Great Pretender]

RobM77 said:

L100NYY said:

=CSL= -

Positives

Lack of depreciation
Noise
Looks
Grunt
RWD adjustability
GT like touring capabilities for 'ring trips et al
Good looks
Great on track

Negatives

Higher running costs when tracked ie tyres etc
A '3'er' rather than an out-and-out sports car (don't take that the wrong way chum)
Potential for big bills (?)
You've had lots of ///M already

---

=Exige S=

Positives

One of the great drivers cars with sublime handling and adjustability
Lightweight = cheap on tyres/brakes/etc when tracked
Slow depreciation
Razor sharp responses
'Tweakability' at low expense ie suspension etc
Properly quick and a real giant killer
Still comfortable enough for euro-trips and 35mpg
Cheap Toyota servicing

Negatives

Lack of space
Characterless engine note (exhaust and airbox this is somewhat rectified)
2 seats

Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 14th December 13:47

An excellent summary

I'd like to add noise on the motorway to that though. Maybe it bothers me more than most people, but it's the main reason I run two cars. My Elise was my only car for three years, but on long trips it began to wind me up after a while, so I now run two cars - one for lugging stuff about and motorways, and one for everything else.

Therefore, from my point of view it depends what sort of driving the OP does. If he doesn't do lots of motorway runs and never needs to carry things or people around, the Exige S would win everyday for me. If, however, he needs more practicality, the CSL would be the better car of the two. I've not driven a CSL, but I have driven a standard E46 M3 and E92 M3, and with these sorts of cars, they get good ratings by being fantastic for a saloon car. The Exige is a dedicated ground up designed sports car, and in my opinion (again, not having driven a CSL), it's a far better proposition for actual driving entertainment. I'd still do the two car thing though, it suits me down to the ground. At 6am on a Friday morning when I've got to drive to Silverstone half asleep, I like climbing into a car with loads of sound insulation, 55mpg and 205/55/16s and cruising up the motorway, and at 10am on a sunny Saturday when I'm going to see my parents down a twisty B road, or on a trip down to the coast, I can take the Elise (top down!). I would never swap both for an Exige S - not a chance. I would like to own an Exige S one day though, alongside both my current cars

I have another car for motorway slogging/commuting.

This query is purely for weekend/holiday/track use.

[RobM77]

LuS1fer said:

The M3 on the basis I'm a bit old for track cars and on the basis of having a car that didn't fall apart in your hands.
I suspect I might like the Exige more though....even though I didn't like an Elise 111R at all.

Try one It's far from being a track car. Elises and Exiges ride better than most Porsches down a B road. Plenty of owners use them everyday. It was only really the noise on motorways that used to wind me up.

[CO2000]

Slightly less OT I'd go this for similar money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIIn5J5UQPo

[L100NYY]

Great Pretender said:

L100NYY said:

CSL -

Positives

Lack of depreciation
Noise
Looks
Grunt
RWD adjustability
GT like touring capabilities for 'ring trips et al
Good looks
Great on track

Negatives

Higher running costs when tracked ie tyres etc
A '3'er' rather than an out-and-out sports car (don't take that the wrong way chum)
Potential for big bills (?)
You've had lots of ///M already

---

Exige S

Positives

One of the great drivers cars with sublime handling and adjustability
Lightweight = cheap on tyres/brakes/etc when tracked
Slow depreciation
Razor sharp responses
'Tweakability' at low expense ie suspension etc
Properly quick and a real giant killer
Still comfortable enough for euro-trips and 35mpg
Cheap Toyota servicing

Negatives

Lack of space
Characterless engine note (exhaust and airbox this is somewhat rectified)
2 seats

Edited by L100NYY on Tuesday 14th December 13:49

Cheers buddy, that's what I hoped this exercise would bring.

So (ignoring any allegiance either way), which would you have?

It's a difficult one for me as I've had one of every version of Elise and Exige so the idea of trying someting different would be mighty tempting with something like a CSL, but, for road and track usage I still think I would go the Exige route.

Even doing circa 30k miles per year (road and track) I never get bored of driving the Lotus and in fact I was talking to a chum the other day and I mentioned that one of the best Lotus I ran was my black 2007 Exige S at the start of this year.

[Marf]

Exige for me please.