RE: Driven: BBR Mazda MX-5 Anniversary Edition

RE: Driven: BBR Mazda MX-5 Anniversary Edition

Author
Discussion

dapprman

2,309 posts

266 months

Friday 17th December 2010
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Adam Towler said:
hornetrider said:
Adam Towler said:
hornetrider said:
Numbskulls!!!!

Did you go to BBR and not drive the st hot off the press newly Cosworth supercharged Mk3???? ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I did drive it and there will be a review on here soon.
Brilliant, thank you. When will said review be available for the masses? smile
Not sure - that's down to the Editor.

It was an interesting car though - totally different in character/delivery to the above, but very impressive.
Thanks - did you get performance figures? Also - bend the ear of the editor please tongue out
If you got traction and it has the original gear ratios and diff then 0-60 will probably be in ~5.5 seconds (assuming the 221 BHP - which as I mentioned above I believe to be total BS). With a 'real' 180 BHP at the fly you hit the red line rev limiter at ~ 125 mph on the 1.6 (can't remember the exact top end but I did work it our once using diff, gear ration and max revs).

Dalto123

3,198 posts

162 months

Friday 17th December 2010
quotequote all
Can I borrow the car for the weekend PLEASE? :-P....Sooooo much better than my Micra :-). Seriously though, I love this car. For £8000 you get in my opinion possibly the best looking MX5's, and then rebuilt to your specification. Just got to save up for it... This may take a while :-)

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Friday 17th December 2010
quotequote all
dapprman said:
If you got traction and it has the original gear ratios and diff then 0-60 will probably be in ~5.5 seconds (assuming the 221 BHP - which as I mentioned above I believe to be total BS). With a 'real' 180 BHP at the fly you hit the red line rev limiter at ~ 125 mph on the 1.6 (can't remember the exact top end but I did work it our once using diff, gear ration and max revs).
Thanks but I'm referring to the 2 litre Mk3 with Supercharger smile

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Friday 17th December 2010
quotequote all
dapprman said:
The original 1.6 can happily cope with 230 BHP (fly), which is about 14-15 psi, the original 1.8, around 240. After that you start having to look at internal mods (i.e. where it gets expensive).
~270bhp on standard internals is the commonly accepted figure these days, above that the rods start getting bendy.

Edited by GravelBen on Friday 17th December 21:37

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Friday 17th December 2010
quotequote all
dapprman said:
With a 'real' 180 BHP at the fly you hit the red line rev limiter at ~ 125 mph on the 1.6 (can't remember the exact top end but I did work it our once using diff, gear ration and max revs).
The gearing limit of the early 1.6 is ~139mph according to the calculator here:

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/gearing.php

I seem to remember reaching a figure of ~136mph from my own calculation - my speedo still pegs itself at 180km/h while the revs keep winding out so I can't tell you what its reading at that point, but with 255rwhp(according to previous owner, never dynoed it myself) it doesn't take too long to get there. (on a racetrack obviously occifer)

dapprman

2,309 posts

266 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
quotequote all
GravelBen said:
dapprman said:
With a 'real' 180 BHP at the fly you hit the red line rev limiter at ~ 125 mph on the 1.6 (can't remember the exact top end but I did work it our once using diff, gear ration and max revs).
The gearing limit of the early 1.6 is ~139mph according to the calculator here:

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/gearing.php

I seem to remember reaching a figure of ~136mph from my own calculation - my speedo still pegs itself at 180km/h while the revs keep winding out so I can't tell you what its reading at that point, but with 255rwhp(according to previous owner, never dynoed it myself) it doesn't take too long to get there. (on a racetrack obviously occifer)
I was bouncing off the rev limiter at the bottom of the back straight at Goodwood, but did not think it was that high. Thought it was closer to 125-130 MPH ... just tried that calculator and it says 127.3 which sounds about right.

As to your power wink - trying to remember whether you Kiwis calculate it the same way as we Brits and the Aussies, or if it's the same way as the Yanks - if the latter then sounds possible to me with a modern ECU and a tight setup wink - not that you care, because as you pointed out it goes like stink and you love it and that's the key point.

Update : I got the tyre size wrong in the calculator, it now says 145.9 MPH and that does sound far too high - might have a google because if we discussed it on the original mx-5 email list then it should be archived.

Edited by dapprman on Saturday 18th December 01:30

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
quotequote all
Try running the calculator with the 4.3 rear end and 195/50R15. I've heard that the factory rev-limit kicks in a bit lower than the indicated 7200rpm too.

dapprman said:
As to your power wink - trying to remember whether you Kiwis calculate it the same way as we Brits and the Aussies, or if it's the same way as the Yanks - if the latter then sounds possible to me with a modern ECU and a tight setup wink - not that you care, because as you pointed out it goes like stink and you love it and that's the key point.
Should be the same way as you lot I think - would it even make a difference when quoting power at the wheels?

Its running a TD04h-15g, Link, 550cc injectors, GTX rods but otherwise standard internals with a bit of head and cam work. Claimed 235rwhp on 12psi and 255rwhp on 15psi which seems believable enough compared to similar builds.

Either way I generally manage to have fun.

Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 18th December 02:03

TheOrangePeril

778 posts

179 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
£8K is still top money for a re-painted, 15+ year old car, with fancy seat covers and a turbo bolted on.
Hardly, consider the prices to get it done elsewhere!

Strip down respray: c2k,
New turbo kit and fitting: c2k,
Full two-seat re-trim in leather: c1k,
Classic sports car with two year warranty: easily 5k minimum!

Sounds like a bargain to me.

Benjc

677 posts

247 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
quotequote all
dapprman said:
dinkel said:
Snoggledog said:
ragezx14r said:
Benjc said:
Screw it.

For £12k you could have:

Is there anyone doing these conversions in the UK?
Have a chat with sidewaysste
With how much power can the MX5 cope?

225 sounds like a healthy bit for serious action: 0-60 in what? 911 territory?
The original 1.6 can happily cope with 230 BHP (fly), which is about 14-15 psi, the original 1.8, around 240. After that you start having to look at internal mods (i.e. where it gets expensive). I seem to remember, back when you could still trust the figures people quoted, one person got ~270 BHP at the fly with a 15 psi FM2 kit using a MoTeC ECU and some serious head work (think it was bored out from 1.8 to 2.1 litres as well). Not sure Steve's ever been a Pistonheader so he may well not be able to correct me on this.
My 1.6 made 232hp and 206 ft/lbs on the AMD rollers at 14psi. It was very happy on the stock internals.

Steve's 1.6 made 260ish, but I don't think he had bored it out. It was just very good tuning using the Tec3r and some other bits like a Vishnu fuel rail to stop cylinder 4 running lean.

He later replaced the 1.6 with a FM stroked engine. Details here http://www.slowmx5.com/

Like you I don't believe power claims and moved away from the scene a few years ago.

0-60 is limited by traction - 5 - 6 seconds depending on grip. The real fun is to be had in gear.

James Dean

1,349 posts

164 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
quotequote all
TheOrangePeril said:
youngsyr said:
£8K is still top money for a re-painted, 15+ year old car, with fancy seat covers and a turbo bolted on.
Hardly, consider the prices to get it done elsewhere!

Strip down respray: c2k,
New turbo kit and fitting: c2k,
Full two-seat re-trim in leather: c1k,
Classic sports car with two year warranty: easily 5k minimum!

Sounds like a bargain to me.
Why don't you make it yourself, Sir? A master of economics like you would soon be a very wealthy man.

Snoggledog

6,946 posts

216 months

Saturday 18th December 2010
quotequote all
Benjc said:
dapprman said:
dinkel said:
Snoggledog said:
ragezx14r said:
Benjc said:
Screw it.

For £12k you could have:

Is there anyone doing these conversions in the UK?
Have a chat with sidewaysste
With how much power can the MX5 cope?

225 sounds like a healthy bit for serious action: 0-60 in what? 911 territory?
The original 1.6 can happily cope with 230 BHP (fly), which is about 14-15 psi, the original 1.8, around 240. After that you start having to look at internal mods (i.e. where it gets expensive). I seem to remember, back when you could still trust the figures people quoted, one person got ~270 BHP at the fly with a 15 psi FM2 kit using a MoTeC ECU and some serious head work (think it was bored out from 1.8 to 2.1 litres as well). Not sure Steve's ever been a Pistonheader so he may well not be able to correct me on this.
My 1.6 made 232hp and 206 ft/lbs on the AMD rollers at 14psi. It was very happy on the stock internals.

Steve's 1.6 made 260ish, but I don't think he had bored it out. It was just very good tuning using the Tec3r and some other bits like a Vishnu fuel rail to stop cylinder 4 running lean.

He later replaced the 1.6 with a FM stroked engine. Details here http://www.slowmx5.com/

Like you I don't believe power claims and moved away from the scene a few years ago.

0-60 is limited by traction - 5 - 6 seconds depending on grip. The real fun is to be had in gear.
Steve's 1.8 block has been bored out to just under 2 litres IIRC. The turbo however is large, very large.

pistolp

1,719 posts

221 months

Sunday 19th December 2010
quotequote all
I'm going to go and try one, I think it looks great fun. The first time I ever went sideways was in one of these! I love them

hassesteen

1 posts

159 months

Monday 20th December 2010
quotequote all
It is good to read that BBR is coming again.

I have some questions:

What about polution?

EU has very strick rules about this.

About the drivetrain:
Mazda Motor company said OK to the original BBR model.

Is this still the case?

The drive train on NA is not so strong as the latter and I have heard about NA's which broke down when they had +200 hk.

Waitey

869 posts

221 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
I had a old school BBR...



The spec was, Link ECU, Custom front mount intercooler, FM exhaust, De cat, 440cc injectors, dual feed fuel rail. OEM BBR manifold, intake and turbo.

It made 228bhp at the the fly @ 11.8psi.

Later when I ran it at 15 psi it made 247bhp at the fly.

When it was at 8psi it made 197bhp.
I cannot see how BBR have gotten 221bhp @ 8.5psi....

dinkel

26,884 posts

257 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
Now that looks the bits!

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
dinkel said:
Now that looks the bits!
It does indeed. Sticky plate + front lip spoiler = cool

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Sticky plate + front lip spoiler = cool
Those front lips are good for aero, but tend to catch the snow a bit! wink




Donkey62

227 posts

164 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
GravelBen your car looks very cool

For me BBR offers something unique in refreshing the whole car unlike every other tuning garage which offer a small selection of ill-informed branded upgrades which rarely works together as a complete package.

One day i will scratch my mx5 itch for sure

deviant

4,316 posts

209 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
papercup said:
Benjc said:
Screw it.

For £12k you could have:

no you couldn't.
Quite...





You can do it for half that in my end of the world :P

Really really tempted to go down that route. I would like 400BHP+ from my car. I think the V8 conversion would be cheaper than persuing the turbo route. I know 2 people that have done it, one car is up and running and is regularly used on track. The other is an almost finished race only car. Seriously seriously fast cars and incredibly well balanced. We shall see...

ellisd82

685 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd December 2010
quotequote all
I love all the 'You could...' replys. Yes you could have more power, yes you could get a different car, but this is about an amazing balance of a great car with power and a great fan base. I would love one if I could afford it. And lets face it, there are people who spend far more than that modding a £1000 corsa or Saxo! I remember watching an old Fifth Gear episode where a guy had spend £25,000 on his little hatch back!