RX8 engine alternativey

[DanGPR]

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

Did the turbo diesel use oil and fuel at quite the same rate as the RX , though?

Horses for courses.

[Mr Dave]

DanGPR said:

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

Did the turbo diesel use oil and fuel at quite the same rate as the RX , though?

Horses for courses.

Many of the BMW 3.0 litre engines from the 330s and so on use a lot of oil. My old 6 speed RX8 didnt use very much oil at all. My mates Rx8 uses less oil than any of the BMWs he, my dad or me have ever owned and thats about 12...

Why do you say the RX8 uses a lot of oil?


The weight is not the issue its the change of putting that weight much further forward. Suprisingly the RX8 is mid engined, sure what harm would sticking 30 or 40 kilos behind the back axle in an Elise, Ferrari 430 or Honda NSX?

Anyway from my experience of the RX8 on fast roads and on track, it is a great handling car and a great all round package, needs a bit more TLC than the equivelent BMW but handles much better, is finished just as well, steers better, costs a whole lot less but is thirstier.

I still think that engine (230 bhp) in the new MX5 would be outstanding and a turbo set up on the RX-8 to give it the grunt to out power the 370zs and Imprezas of the world.

[DanGPR]

Mr Dave said:

DanGPR said:

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

Did the turbo diesel use oil and fuel at quite the same rate as the RX , though?

Horses for courses.

Many of the BMW 3.0 litre engines from the 330s and so on use a lot of oil. My old 6 speed RX8 didnt use very much oil at all. My mates Rx8 uses less oil than any of the BMWs he, my dad or me have ever owned and thats about 12...

Why do you say the RX8 uses a lot of oil?


The weight is not the issue its the change of putting that weight much further forward. Suprisingly the RX8 is mid engined, sure what harm would sticking 30 or 40 kilos behind the back axle in an Elise, Ferrari 430 or Honda NSX?

Anyway from my experience of the RX8 on fast roads and on track, it is a great handling car and a great all round package, needs a bit more TLC than the equivelent BMW but handles much better, is finished just as well, steers better, costs a whole lot less but is thirstier.

I still think that engine (230 bhp) in the new MX5 would be outstanding and a turbo set up on the RX-8 to give it the grunt to out power the 370zs and Imprezas of the world.

"Total loss" lubrication makes me say that...

The fact that the engine works by rotation rather than reciprocation means there is no way of isolating the oil from the fuel (like piston rings should), and so it's an inevitibility that some oil will get burned.

The BMWs you refer to, are they petrol engined models, as I was refering specifically to the turbo diesel mentioned.

I can't comment on the individual cars owned by you or friends etc. as every car is not the same, but the inherent design of the wankel engine means that it WILL use more oil than a "normal" ICE.

[marcosgt]

DanGPR said:

I can't comment on the individual cars owned by you or friends etc. as every car is not the same, but the inherent design of the wankel engine means that it WILL use more oil than a "normal" ICE.

A Piston engine you mean?

M

[DanGPR]

marcosgt said:

DanGPR said:

I can't comment on the individual cars owned by you or friends etc. as every car is not the same, but the inherent design of the wankel engine means that it WILL use more oil than a "normal" ICE.

A Piston engine you mean?

M

Yes, a piston engine...

I can't see a massive issue with the wording I used , though?

[redgriff500]

jbi said:

redgriff500 said:

mikliska said:

not to mention, you can find a running renesis near same price as any other engine (within reason) you're considering.

Lexus V8's (1UZ 4.0) are available from £100 with loads around at £300.

A decent Rotary goes for way more than that.

Possibly because the Lexus unit doesn't break hence not many owners need them whilst the rotary does break hence is in more demand.

As much as I love the lexus V8, it's a very large engine physically compared to the GM pushrod V8's

The DOHC assembly on the top of the engine makes it big and top heavy and will be a very tight squeeze in the engine bay without some significant modification I should imagine.

I think its the next smallest after the LS.

They squeeze them in RX7's and MX5's so it'll fit - no doubt a google would show its already been done.

[ManOpener]

redgriff500 said:

I think its the next smallest after the LS.

They squeeze them in RX7's and MX5's so it'll fit - no doubt a google would show its already been done.

Is the Audi ABZ not smaller? That seems to be the engine of choice for shoehorning into mid engined cars with limited space.

[Wadeski]

13B turbo from an RX-7?

[ZeeTacoe]

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

You can't have done that well then because the renisis is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than an alternator.

here's one I prepared earlier with an alternator attached.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mazda_rotary_eng...

[Harji]

DanGPR said:

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

[b]Did the turbo diesel use oil and fuel at quite the same rate as the RX , though?

Horses for courses[/b].

Less oil than my previous GTI, fuel is relative to what you got the car for, anyway this has been discussed (mainly by non rx8 owners) a million times. I'll have to say the Rotary engine is one of the most throttle responsive engines I have ever had he pleasure of driving.

[Harji]

ZeeTacoe said:

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

You can't have done that well then because the renisis is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than an alternator.

here's one I prepared earlier with an alternator attached.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mazda_rotary_eng...

ha, got me, I did do well, I did it when the calculator was probably more powerful than the PC we used (with 5" floppy disks) so alot of the work was done in our head, not now where you can pull anything off the internet.

Granted, the alternator is not the best comparison, but the engine is lightweight and small in comparison to the ones mentioned here. The car was designed around the engine, so any change will affect the handling.

[Harji]

doogz said:

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

20-30Kg is a lot? So presumably you jack up your car and change all the springs, shocks, and wheel alignment every time you carry a passenger with you?
And every time you fill up at the petrol station?

Although i think it's a given, than swapping the wankel out for a large capacity V8 would result in the need for new spring's on the front, and new dampers to go with them. Like the previous poster insinuated.

So what's your point?

Bit of an idiotic post, yeah I do change everything ? 20-30 anywhere in the car affects it, fuel consumption, balance, put 30kg in the boot of any car and tell me you don't notice it. But if you think you know better than Mazda engineers and designers, who built the car round the engine, then you are wasting your time on here.

It doesn't matter what you say, the front end will be heavier with a V8 and thus affect the dynamics of the car. And the handling & dynamics is what most people bought the RX8 for. You'll have a different car with a V8 in it.

Edited by Harji on Monday 10th January 16:50

Edited by Harji on Monday 10th January 16:52

[MoBeanz]

13B-REW

[Mr Dave]

DanGPR said:

Mr Dave said:

DanGPR said:

Harji said:

fridaypassion said:

I disagree. I dont think a 1300 kg car will be all that sensitive to an additional 20/30 kgs in the nose. Nothing that some mild suspension adjustments wont sort. Its Mazdas refusal to let the rotary die thats the reason they used it in the rx8. The technology for a light pressure turbo setup with the same power output was there but they chose not to do it.

The rex is sublime in every other way so fitting a proper engine in it would be very worthwhile. Why not buy an mx5 turbo? Well the whole point of the rx8 is that you get rear seats and a reasonable boot so practicality is unrivaled in a 4 door with the level of handling that the rx8 has.

I've studied Mechanical Engineering, and 20-30 kg is a lot and will affect dynamics and handling. And I suspect it will be more than 20-30kg, the roatary engine is about the size of an alternator.

I think Mazda should be commended for making a Rotary engine in a sea of bland crossover same engine different cars. I hear they are sticking with the Rotary for the next RX series and are thinking of a 2.2 Turbo. Anyway a certain Turbo diesel from a certain german manufacturer that I drove recently and is a very popular car was soooo bland in comaprision to the RX8.

Did the turbo diesel use oil and fuel at quite the same rate as the RX , though?

Horses for courses.

Many of the BMW 3.0 litre engines from the 330s and so on use a lot of oil. My old 6 speed RX8 didnt use very much oil at all. My mates Rx8 uses less oil than any of the BMWs he, my dad or me have ever owned and thats about 12...

Why do you say the RX8 uses a lot of oil?


The weight is not the issue its the change of putting that weight much further forward. Suprisingly the RX8 is mid engined, sure what harm would sticking 30 or 40 kilos behind the back axle in an Elise, Ferrari 430 or Honda NSX?

Anyway from my experience of the RX8 on fast roads and on track, it is a great handling car and a great all round package, needs a bit more TLC than the equivelent BMW but handles much better, is finished just as well, steers better, costs a whole lot less but is thirstier.

I still think that engine (230 bhp) in the new MX5 would be outstanding and a turbo set up on the RX-8 to give it the grunt to out power the 370zs and Imprezas of the world.

"Total loss" lubrication makes me say that...

The fact that the engine works by rotation rather than reciprocation means there is no way of isolating the oil from the fuel (like piston rings should), and so it's an inevitibility that some oil will get burned.

The BMWs you refer to, are they petrol engined models, as I was refering specifically to the turbo diesel mentioned.

I can't comment on the individual cars owned by you or friends etc. as every car is not the same, but the inherent design of the wankel engine means that it WILL use more oil than a "normal" ICE.

Oh it does use a good amount of oil, just the horror stories of 2 litres per 1000miles and so on are wildly unrealistic.

They use a lot of oil in the first few thousand miles but after that it settles down and the BMWs (diesel and petrol six cylinders) do use rather a lot most of the time.

In the Renesis unlike the 13b in the RX-7 has much better tip seals and burns less oil and doesnt need rebuilt very often. (The 13b is actually very easy to rebuild, its getting the engine in and out thats awkward with the rats nest of boost pipes and nonesense to get out of the way!)

[jbi]

redgriff500 said:

jbi said:

redgriff500 said:

mikliska said:

not to mention, you can find a running renesis near same price as any other engine (within reason) you're considering.

Lexus V8's (1UZ 4.0) are available from £100 with loads around at £300.

A decent Rotary goes for way more than that.

Possibly because the Lexus unit doesn't break hence not many owners need them whilst the rotary does break hence is in more demand.

As much as I love the lexus V8, it's a very large engine physically compared to the GM pushrod V8's

The DOHC assembly on the top of the engine makes it big and top heavy and will be a very tight squeeze in the engine bay without some significant modification I should imagine.

I think its the next smallest after the LS.

They squeeze them in RX7's and MX5's so it'll fit - no doubt a google would show its already been done.

I have dug up a bit of info on the dimensions

1UZ-FE

Size: (28"x28"x28")
Weight: 462 or 470lbs


LS1

Size: 25.3"x25"x20.5"
Weight: 459lbs

Edited by jbi on Monday 10th January 18:33

[philoldsmobile]

rocketride said:

Hi guys
Been offered an RX8 with blown engine really cheap. Do you think it would be possible to drop a bmw 330 or s2000 engine in with a budget of 3-4grand ? Do you think its possible? Not sure of engine sizes and gearbox room?

anything is possible, but you have to ask in this case why? you can buy a decent early RX8 running for not much over £3k

the hybrid likely wont handle as well (different center of gravity, its not only the weight, but where it is in the engine bay) and will be almost impossible to sell, and totally misses the big virtue of the car - the wankel engine...

Edited by philoldsmobile on Monday 10th January 18:35

[Mr Dave]

I reckon try to find one of the triple rotor jobbies, itll cost a lot more as I dont think there were many Cosmos sold let alone brought to the UK and stick a big turbo on it.

Do it properly and have a big power rotary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU8I-5-YlAg&fea...

or a 13b with a big turbo put in would do I suppose.

[marcosgt]

philoldsmobile said:

rocketride said:

Hi guys
Been offered an RX8 with blown engine really cheap. Do you think it would be possible to drop a bmw 330 or s2000 engine in with a budget of 3-4grand ? Do you think its possible? Not sure of engine sizes and gearbox room?

anything is possible, but you have to ask in this case why? you can buy a decent early RX8 running for not much over £3k

the hybrid likely wont handle as well (different center of gravity, its not only the weight, but where it is in the engine bay) and will be almost impossible to sell, and totally misses the big virtue of the car - the wankel engine...

On the other hand - Why not

If you build it - Can I have a go?

M.

[mikliska]

redgriff500 said:

mikliska said:

not to mention, you can find a running renesis near same price as any other engine (within reason) you're considering.

Lexus V8's (1UZ 4.0) are available from £100 with loads around at £300.

A decent Rotary goes for way more than that.

Possibly because the Lexus unit doesn't break hence not many owners need them whilst the rotary does break hence is in more demand.

Does that include: ECU, trans/trans adapter, drive shaft, engine mounts,etc.(Lexus V8-RX8 conversion kit)?

[JB!]

if weight is an issue, what about a hayabusa engine?

compact, tunable...