For those that undertake, is it....

[PoleDriver]

RobM77 said:

whoami said:

RobM77 said:

Another type of driver worth mentioning is those that capitalise on the "no undertaking" rule. Where a dual carriageway goes down to one lane, say at the end of a crawler lane or just a period of dual carriageway for a mile or so going down to one lane (e.g. A303), and there's no other cars around, they move out to sit in lane 2 to stop you getting in front of them. With such people, a flash never works, and neither does an indicator or just good old patience. They know precisely what they're up to and they just won't budge.

The very worst kind of spunkbag.

And I know for a fact they do it deliberately. Sometimes you can follow a car down a dual carriageway bit with perfect lane discipline, and then as soon as the sign goes up that the DC is ending in 200 yards, they stay out after their last overtake right until the white line guides them in again, even if you're behind them and closing. What's more, lately I've started noticing these idiots playing their games so I've just given up waiting in lane 2 for them to move back, accepted my fate and just popped the car into sixth and moved back to lane one, at which point they instantly dive over to lane one thinking you're going to undertake them!

Drop a cog or two, feign a move into lane 1 then floor it when they pull over to baulk you.
BE READY TO BRAKE!

[Mazdarese]

RobM77 said:

Mazdarese said:

RobM77 said:

ewenm said:

Amazingly, I manage to make decent progress on motorways without undertaking or being undertaken. If there's room for someone behind me to catch up, pass on the inside and move out again without hitting me or the vehicle I'm overtaking then I'd have to conclude I should have moved left between my overtakes.

Are you sure about that? I get undertaken all the time, not that it bothers me much. It happens like this: I'm going down lane 1 when I see a lorry half a mile in front being overtaken by a car in lane 2 at a small closing speed. In lane 3 is a string of 3 or 4 cars overtaking both of them. So I move out to lane 3 to join that queue of cars. Someone will then do what I've just done, see the lorry, car and the lane 3 queue, and come up behind me, but instead of staying behind me, they'll move out to my left, pass me on the inside, and then cut back in either in front of me or the car in front of me. Happens constantly on the M3. In a 30 minute journey to Southampton from where I live I get this perhaps 7 or 8 times?

Personally, I would suggest that you shouldn't join a queue of overtaking cars. If someone has decided to move into lane 2 and pass you and another car before pulling in, then perhaps you should have not been in lane 3.

Just my opinion, and it's difficult to comment without actually seeing it happen.

So what would you do in that situation? I'm not trying to argue, but I'm genuinely confused because the way you suggest to handle it would be a truly bizarre way of making progress.

Let's say the lorry's doing 55, the car in lane 2 60 and the queue of three or four cars overtaking both is doing 70. You're cruising at 75 on approach (yes, I know that's faster than the speed limit but make up your own speeds if you like. 50/55/65 and 70 if you wish - it makes no difference). If you don't join the queue in lane 3 as soon as possible you're going to end up undertaking them all and butted right up behind the lorry or car in an unrecoverable situation, because out of courtesy you can't just then switch to lane 3! You'd also have to slow down and speed up again, which risks bunching up cars and zaps your fuel, not to mention change lanes in a busy area, rather than a quiet area. Equally, you can't sit there behind the lorry or car and wait for the end of the queue because they'll be no end - cars will just keep coming down lane 3 and joining the end, and you can bet your life they won't let you out because you've just undertaken everybody. Plus you'd be joining a lane with an average speed of 70mph at 60mph! I described the only sensible and safe action, which is to maintain your speed, move to lane 3 and lose 5mph until the overtaking manouvre is complete, at which point you return to lane 1 as you were beforehand.

Edited by RobM77 on Monday 10th January 18:06

It's a difficult one. In your situation, as I imagine it, if the cars in lane 3 were moving at considerably greater speed that those in 1 and 2 then your manouvre should be completed quickly and I suppose there's no harm done. But, if you're all in a line 'creeping' by the traffic in lane 2 then to me that would be outside lane hogging. I would probably have moved to lane 2, and just kept my eyes on the traffic in lane 3 as I approached the vehicle ahead of me in lane 2. I wouldn't fly past them and then try and cut in, but continue as I was and when I got to the vehicle ahead of me I'd probably indicate and wait for a gap.

But, like you say, fkers won't let you out! I suppose it all depends on how quickly the overtake can be completed.

[*Al*]

RobM77 said:

whoami said:

RobM77 said:

Another type of driver worth mentioning is those that capitalise on the "no undertaking" rule. Where a dual carriageway goes down to one lane, say at the end of a crawler lane or just a period of dual carriageway for a mile or so going down to one lane (e.g. A303), and there's no other cars around, they move out to sit in lane 2 to stop you getting in front of them. With such people, a flash never works, and neither does an indicator or just good old patience. They know precisely what they're up to and they just won't budge.

The very worst kind of spunkbag.

And I know for a fact they do it deliberately. Sometimes you can follow a car down a dual carriageway bit with perfect lane discipline, and then as soon as the sign goes up that the DC is ending in 200 yards, they stay out after their last overtake right until the white line guides them in again, even if you're behind them and closing. What's more, lately I've started noticing these idiots playing their games so I've just given up waiting in lane 2 for them to move back, accepted my fate and just popped the car into sixth and moved back to lane one, at which point they instantly dive over to lane one thinking you're going to undertake them!

Lol had a couple try stop my bike!...............it never works lol.

[busta]

Has anyone mentioned that it's not actually illegal to pass cars on the left yet? If not then I must just be ignorant so I'll vote for that one.

[iva cosworth]

I am not going to read 8 pages of why you should or should not

undertake.

I drive an HGV and if Divvy in lane 2 is going so slow that i can go

past on the left ,then i will do so

I am not allowed in lane 3 of motorway either

I also undertake in the car too .........at much more speed too

I am not waiting for them to get a life and move over

[read5458]

I don't usually have an issue with most MLM's I encounter. If the road ahead is completely clear, then ffs, move into lane 1. However, one thing I experience is how you move out of the way of faster moving cars in lane 2 and 3, pull into lane 1 with a few hundred meters of clear space and end up with every that was in lane 3, moving to lane 2. You indicate that you want to move to lane 2 to overtake a lorry or slower vehicle and most people from lane 3, have moved into lane 2 and refuse to move over forcing me or the person in lane 1 to brake or slow down. IMHO, that is just as bad.

Reading the road ahead is all good and well, but that coupled with what I always witness means that, in this particularly common circumstance, the idiots that complain about slower drivers being in lane 2 when they could move into the 50 - 100 meter gap, create just as much hassle and ignorence displays as those "MLM's".


Oh, I've also witnessed a tastey S4 undertaking a landrover by diving from a clear lane 3 to lane 1, pressumably to make a point, as the landrover has moved over too. Result was 2 wrecked vehicles BOTH containing passengers under the age of 2. Always been warey after that.

There is no excuse for lane 3 dawdlers though. They are muppets.

[*Al*]

I will always pass on the left, although very cautiously (in the car), most MLMs don't seem to notice or care!

I have in the past given MLM a quick flash which sometimes wakes them, car moves to LH lane1 so i pass and also move over to lane 1. I look in my mirror only to see MLM return to lane2 for no apparent reason what so ever!! Anyone else had this?

[anonymous-user]

knight said:

Where's the option for "I'm doing an indicated 70 on the motorway in the inside lane but still going quicker than the assholes sat in lanes 2 and 3"?

As far as I am aware you are perfectly legal in passing them, you break the law if you change lanes to undertake or are speeding. I am sure there will be posts telling me I am wrong but hey ho.
The amended Road Traffic Act doesn't define undertaking as an offence and, as far as both a traffic officer I am related to and one of my close friends who is an exceptional driving instructor have advised me you would not be breaching section 268 of the highway code so long as the traffic in the other lane(s) is travelling at less than 70 and therefore can be defined as "slower traffic", any offence would have to be defined by a witness officer as you could only be prosecuted for driving 'without reasonable consideration'. Therefore my understanding is that you can undertake as long as you don't force anyone to have to change direction or speed and you yourself are not breaking the speed limit, after all the person you are undertaking is themselves outright breaking the law and as such should be reported.
I await the usual response...........................

[*Al*]

I was led to understand that you can leagally pass on the left 'if' all lanes are moving at lower speeds than the limit, ie times of congestion when neither lanes are moving faster.

[Wills2]

It really is daft that you cannot pass on both sides legally apart from in the above mentioned scenario.

You can in the US and you can also turn right at a stop light (after stopping), the same way we should be able to turn left at a stop light but can't.

And a speed limit of 70mph is a nonsense IMHO.

Edited by Wills2 on Monday 10th January 20:46

[havoc]

Wills2 said:

It really is daft that you cannot pass on both sides legally apart from in the above mentioned scenario.

You can in the US and you can also turn right at a stop light (after stopping), the same way we should be able to turn left at a stop light but can't.

"Right on a red" is a very good idea - worked well when we were in Canada.

But have you seen driving standards on DCs in North America - they may be able to pass on either side, but that just means the morons pick whatever lane they want and stay in it, and then the other sort of morons decide to weave all round them. Not pleasant...actually made UK motorways (except probably the M25) seem well-behaved!

[busta]

havoc said:

Wills2 said:

It really is daft that you cannot pass on both sides legally apart from in the above mentioned scenario.

You can in the US and you can also turn right at a stop light (after stopping), the same way we should be able to turn left at a stop light but can't.

"Right on a red" is a very good idea - worked well when we were in Canada.

But have you seen driving standards on DCs in North America - they may be able to pass on either side, but that just means the morons pick whatever lane they want and stay in it, and then the other sort of morons decide to weave all round them. Not pleasant...actually made UK motorways (except probably the M25) seem well-behaved!

I agree. Our system is perfectly adequate if people actually stick to it. A few 'keep left unless overtaking' signs would go a long way. Maybe an add campaign or something. Considering driving is quite an involved, dangerous and relatively difficult thing to do there is very little input from any authority once people have passed their test.

[Cotty]

*Al* said:

I was led to understand that you can leagally pass on the left 'if' all lanes are moving at lower speeds than the limit, ie times of congestion when neither lanes are moving faster.

Technically all lanes should be moving at lower speeds than the limit all times, but we won't get into that.

If someone is driving at 60mph on an empty motorway in lane 3 and I aproach them in lane 1 at 65mph then technically my lane is moving faster due to "congestion" so I will pass them.

[Tallbut Buxomly]

I undertake and am not ashamed to admit to it. I have better things to do than waste my time sitting waiting for idiots who are totally unaware of their surroundings.

I spent 4 and a bit years sticking to the rules and being patient but decided in the end i wasnt prepared to put up with stupid people anymore. I understand the risks associated with undertaking and am always very on edge and alert when doing so as if i cant trust the idiots to be aware of their surroundings i cant trust them not to suddenly swerve left into me.

[Herman Toothrot]

I had the cruise set at a very sensible 70mph on the M4 this weekend and I must have done most of the way happily pulling out into lane 2 to pass lorries and back in again. Strange thing was even with the cruise at this normally understood low motorway speed I was passing hundreds of cars on the inside. One stretch where you can see for a very long way ahead, easily over a mile no one was in lane 1 or 2, just a line of cars in lane 3 all nose to tail, driving way to close to each other, all doing no more than 60mph, possibly less.

I had pulled on to the road and set the cruise at a higher speed, within my 10% + 1 or 2; too fast. I actually felt like I'd be noticed which was a rather odd experience. I'm sure those making progress on the M4 usually travel between 85 and 90mph, so allowing the slightly slower motorist to be ignored should they pass a police car; not this weekend, a symptom of the increased fuel prices? Are those who usually occupy "the fast lane" pinching penny's and so accelerating up to speed and then backing off when they see the mpg readout, so now causing "fast lane" tailbacks? They refuse to act as pesants and drive in the "slow" lanes,... even if due to their numbers they have ended up slower - in the fast lane?

[whoami]

[redacted]

[fluffnik]

Balmoral Green said:

Neither, it's just cause & effect.

...with just a smidgen of Utilitarianism.

[Colonial]

Because it is perfectly legal for me to do so.

Yep, in NSW you can undertake a car on a multi lane road. But you must also keep left unless overtaking (they don't enforce it, but it is there)

So, OP, I do it because I legally can do it.

So there.

[fluffnik]

300bhp/ton said:

which in sanities sake would suggest driving like a tit is not really that appropriate.

• Driving like a tit is never appropriate
• Failing to stay left except when overtaking is driving like a tit

[anonymous-user]

Becuase of the dick heads who dont understand that you should keep to the left unless overtaking