For those that undertake, is it....

[gog440]

Neither.

It's because the tool in the outside lane is blissfully unaware that there is anything behind him/her and therefore no amount of gentle creeping to their n/s mirror, or indicating or - God forbid - flashing, will move them. Either that or it's their own arrogance; that 70mph is the limit and woe-betide anyone who should wish to go faster, that's the problem.

I frequently undertake people because frankly, I'm not prepared to follow someone for miles and miles who is so unaware of their own surroundings.

>flamesuit at the ready<


[/quote]


this^^^

The number of blind/stupid/arrogant people I see sat in either lane 2 or lane 3 completely oblivous to the fact that there are completely empty lanes to their laft has left me with no choice, I will carry on driving in lne 1 at 70+ 10% and if they want to sit in lane 3 at 65 that is entirely their problem, I will not be moving over to sit behind them.

[PoleDriver]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Hang on, I have just re-read the topic and a few others and have just realised the error of my ways and would like to apologise for my posts, I am very sorry.
I now understand that you have to have been on here for a long time and made many posts before you can post a thought or an opinion and the veterans are right on all matters.
I appreciate that no matter how old I am, what my job is, what my life experience or car history is I will be wrong.
Apologies again to fluffnik for my bks and all others I may have upset and in future I will just post aggreement until I hit the magic numbers to allow opinion.
If someone could pm me the figures that would be great

Edited by NorfolkInClue1 on Thursday 13th January 09:51

At last, we thought you'd never catch on!

[CraigyMc]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Hang on, I have just re-read the topic and a few others and have just realised the error of my ways and would like to apologise for my posts, I am very sorry.
I now understand that you have to have been on here for a long time and made many posts before you can post a thought or an opinion and the veterans are right on all matters.
I appreciate that no matter how old I am, what my job is, what my life experience or car history is I will be wrong.
Apologies again to fluffnik for my bks and all others I may have upset and in future I will just post aggreement until I hit the magic numbers to allow opinion.
If someone could pm me the figures that would be great

Edited by NorfolkInClue1 on Thursday 13th January 09:51

1000 posts, and 6 years.

[busta]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Hang on, I have just re-read the topic and a few others and have just realised the error of my ways and would like to apologise for my posts, I am very sorry.
I now understand that you have to have been on here for a long time and made many posts before you can post a thought or an opinion and the veterans are right on all matters.
I appreciate that no matter how old I am, what my job is, what my life experience or car history is I will be wrong.
Apologies again to fluffnik for my bks and all others I may have upset and in future I will just post aggreement until I hit the magic numbers to allow opinion.
If someone could pm me the figures that would be great

Edited by NorfolkInClue1 on Thursday 13th January 09:51

Thank god you've realised. Someone will be in touch.

Seriously though, as with most forums, those who have been here longest are more likely to get listened to, although there are some who have been here a long time and spout even more crap than you so it doesn't always work like that.

You seem to be confusing driving quickly with driving carelessly. It's perfectly plausible to travel at speeds greater than 70mph and slow down when you approach a possible hazard (a slower car approaching a lorry which may be moving into your lane, for example), and I imagine this situation is one most PH deal with regularly. Your argument that there is never a place for driving above 70mph, and doing so is to be driving dangerously, is very short sighted. As short sighted, in fact, as the authorities that propose decreasing speed limits for safety yet offer little in the way of advice and training for drivers. The majority of motorway accident are caused by following too close and not paying attention, not driving too quickly. But when did you last see a 'tailgating camera'?

[Marf]

Efbe said:

so 300 was driving like a twunt.

gets undertaken.

didn't like it.

couldn't man up to the fact he was driving like a twunt.

starts a thread trying to get support for his twuntish driving.

no-one supports him.

everyone thinks he's a twunt

300 crys

I thought he'd been banned from GG, but I guess he's just butthurt and hiding under a rock.

[Herbs]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

fluffnik said:

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Secondly, speed does equal danger in an enviroment such as a motorway with so many variables, thats just common sense, try it some time.

bks, of the most wrinkly nature.

Speed and danger have a complex non-linear relationship everywhere, not least a Motorway.

Unexpectedly low speeds are at least as likely to result in a collision as high speeds.

The Bundesautobahnen are amongst the safest and most pleasant roads to munch miles on not least because one can maintain stress free averages >120mph over long distances. The physical roads are no better than ours, it's mostly down to the absence of needless limits...

I've tried it and I have no desire to spend more than 5hours on a 500mile journey when I know there is no need.

Brilliant post fella, so my post is bks but 3 sentences later you make my point for me? High speed is fine but dangerous when mixed with low speed. How many times have you had to break hard for a MiM finally pulling out to pass a lorry at a heady 65mph? I agree there is a time and a place for high speed on a motorway, trouble is that too many drivers think it is all the time in any available space and that is where speed equals danger, maybe I should have said "misplaced speed equals danger" if that would make it easier? If you think you have a right to go as fast as YOU want on a motorway then you are a very dangerous driver (not you personally fluffnik)
I also mentioned the German roads as an example, maybe you could post on here why you were aable to drive at a constant 120mph? I've done it and it was because of brilliant discipline, everyone knew their place/lane, in fact on some roads the cruising can get up to 140mph, get in the wrong lane and you will know about it, sadly something that will never happen over here, if you flash anyone on UK roads they will either ignore you or break test you and show you the coffee beans!!
Hope I have explained my hairy bks a little, and to the post regarding my "black and white in a sea of grey" you maybe right but if it was all grey it would be very boring, i love a good debate to find out opinion, sorry if thats a crime mate

Mate, your posting makes you sound like a complete tool. In all your arguments about how dangerous doing 85, the only dangerous aspect you mention that can cause an accident is the MLM's do not not know lane discipline or drive at a sensible pace. If these fkwits learnt how to drive then we could have a system like Germany where you have a proper fast lane. Speed is not the issue it's the amount of s on the road who display the basic inability to drive to the level of the highway code.

Edited by Herbs on Thursday 13th January 10:45

[ronaldo342]

Driving on the A47 tues doing a reasonable although not excessive rate of knots, I can around this bend to find a girl with a Ford Ka in the outside lane doing what I can only estimate at less than 50mph ! I had to undertake as did the Vauxhall Astra van behind me, Had I had braked hard and stayed in my lane I may have stopped in time although I doubt the silver astravan behind me would have.
I do not agree with undertaking and trying to push your way in when all the traffic is bumper to bumper, but when there is clear road the inside lane should be used otherwise expect to be untaken

[308mate]

Headlights on for visibility in the rearview, approach aggressively (they should have seen me by then, Im doing 95, not 125 so not a ridiculous closing speed), if no movement despite room to move, 1 extended flash of the lights, if still no movement and the left lane is clear, get by and get on with the job of dispatching the next one. If there are cars in the left lane, respectful but purposeful distance behind until they have the opportunity to move.*

Watch mirrors for those doing 120 so as not to impede them. Everyone's agenda is different. Mine is no more or less important than anyone elses.

People with poor judgement, lacking observation skills and with limited experience will find this approach arrogant. The problem lies with them, not me.




* All this is assuming theyre not up for a race, of course.

Edited by 308mate on Thursday 13th January 11:00

[fluffnik]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

fluffnik said:

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Secondly, speed does equal danger in an enviroment such as a motorway with so many variables, thats just common sense, try it some time.

bks, of the most wrinkly nature.

Speed and danger have a complex non-linear relationship everywhere, not least a Motorway.

Unexpectedly low speeds are at least as likely to result in a collision as high speeds.

The Bundesautobahnen are amongst the safest and most pleasant roads to munch miles on not least because one can maintain stress free averages >120mph over long distances. The physical roads are no better than ours, it's mostly down to the absence of needless limits...

I've tried it and I have no desire to spend more than 5hours on a 500mile journey when I know there is no need.

Brilliant post fella, so my post is bks but 3 sentences later you make my point for me? High speed is fine but dangerous when mixed with low speed. How many times have you had to break hard for a MiM finally pulling out to pass a lorry at a heady 65mph? I agree there is a time and a place for high speed on a motorway, trouble is that too many drivers think it is all the time in any available space and that is where speed equals danger, maybe I should have said "misplaced speed equals danger" if that would make it easier? If you think you have a right to go as fast as YOU want on a motorway then you are a very dangerous driver (not you personally fluffnik)

I'm quite pedantic about the use of the word "equals", your (mis)use of it suggested to me that you thought there was a simple linear relationship between speed and danger - twice the speed, twice the danger - which is indeed nonsense; I'm glad that you're not as wrong as that.

For any given circumstance there will be a range of speeds with an effectively identical low risk which will increase quite sharply at either end of the range. This range may be very narrow - nose to tail lines of traffic - or more than 100mph wide - an early June morning on an empty A-bahn.

Our blanket arbitrary speed limits completely fail to address the dynamic nature of this sweet spot and as such quite possibly do more harm than good.

NorfolkInClue1 said:

I also mentioned the German roads as an example, maybe you could post on here why you were aable to drive at a constant 120mph? I've done it and it was because of brilliant discipline, everyone knew their place/lane, in fact on some roads the cruising can get up to 140mph, get in the wrong lane and you will know about it, sadly something that will never happen over here, if you flash anyone on UK roads they will either ignore you or break test you and show you the coffee beans!!

My best A-bahn average is 143mph from Hamburg to the Danish border on a summer's evening with speeds up to 169mph.

I think A-bahn lane discipline is as much driven by fear as training, even the Belgians check their mirrors...

...and if the Belgians can do it, so can we.

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Hope I have explained my hairy bks a little, and to the post regarding my "black and white in a sea of grey" you maybe right but if it was all grey it would be very boring, i love a good debate to find out opinion, sorry if thats a crime mate

[Cub911]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Thanks for the comments, Poledriver in particular. If you read again I was coming from the point of the law, as the thread was started. 85 is illegal as in sitting in lane 3, both break the law but one is right? Not really.
I stand by saying the law will never change, and yes there is a time and a place for 85mph, however approaching an oblivious driver is not one of them.
I said before that an ignorant driver is way more dangerous than any other. For the comment suggesting that just becuase the car has been there a while it will be ok is very risky, nothing worse than someone suddenly realising the error of there way just as you are half way past and swerving, it does happen, alot.
Didn't think I was on my high horse but there you go, if you think 85 is the new 55 then good luck to you. Still say two lawbreakers don't make a right and that the law will never ever change despite what might seem acceptable these days.
The law as we all know can be an ass, however so long as there are still people who drive with awareness then 85 or even 80 in the wrong place is not great, only takes one idiot doing 69mph to pull out into a line of 85mph to cause chaos. What we need is the european way of thinking, get right out of the way unless you have the machinery or ability to drive in lane 3 at speed, works great in France, Spain,Italy and Germany.
Oh and I don't live in Norfolk, was dragged up there and returned to the homeland asap, driving in Norfolk is, well, different!
Never forget the true story of how the speed cameras in Norfolk went unchecked for over 6 months (old school ones with films) after the only officer who did it was seconded on to a murder case and no one realised, no tickets for a long time ha ha
Expected the flaming and loved it, thanks guys

Edited by NorfolkInClue1 on Wednesday 12th January 23:56

I have nothing useful to add, but reading this post got me thinking if NorfolkInClue1 is in fact;

Edited by Cub911 on Thursday 13th January 12:01

[GrilledBeans]

Sometimes I like to jam in L1 and if by some form of black magic I undertake someone whilst maintaining a steady speed then clearly they're in the wrong lane. What's better if when they speed up after being undertaken then seeing me undertake them again at the same speed 5 minutes later.

Undertaking doesn't bother me really, apart from those people that aggressively cut across from L4 to L1 to undertake one car then quickly swing back up to L4 on the M1, them type of people are the one's I hope the plod see.

[Vipers]

308mate said:

Headlights on for visibility in the rearview, approach aggressively (they should have seen me by then, Im doing 95.

People with poor judgement, lacking observation skills and with limited experience will find this approach arrogant. The problem lies with them, not me.

As father Christmas says, "Ho ho ho"..........

[steve_bmw]

i always undertake when there is a fool in the middle lane doing 60 and has been there some time and is totaly un aware of whats going on behind him.
i do feel superior in my bmw though just kidding, but some drivers think its ok to swing from lane 3 to lane 1 in busy traffic just to pass someone , this is a no no.

[PoleDriver]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Stuff

Are you related to VonHosen?

[Paul_B]

Out of the 2 available options, in my case it definitely arrogance. I am better than that middle lane MORON/ outside lane TWUNT, fact.

[anonymous-user]

i agree

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 13th January 13:28

[308mate]

Vipers said:

308mate said:

Headlights on for visibility in the rearview, approach aggressively (they should have seen me by then, Im doing 95.

People with poor judgement, lacking observation skills and with limited experience will find this approach arrogant. The problem lies with them, not me.

As father Christmas says, "Ho ho ho"..........

Well honestly, is it worth all the pomp and posture just because its a forum of car nerds? No. The fact is if you work on the road and cover 50,000+ miles a year, youve usually got somewhere to be and you usually just want to get there. Its nothing personal with the guy in front, I couldnt care less about his reasons for being a law abiding citizen in Lane 3, nor his anguish at my apparent disregard for it. Ive just driven Bournemouth to Billericay and its 4:00pm on the M25 clockwise on the way back. I want to get to the A3 and past Guildford before it gets busy, so stop huffing and puffing and and shaking your head/fist/tin of coffee beans and get the fk out of the way. Or, sit still while I go by on the left. I really dont care, as long as I get by.

Conditions allowing, certain death does not live just the other side of 70mph. I dont have time to stop and explain that to everyone, so theyll just have to let me past and take my word for it.

Edited by 308mate on Thursday 13th January 14:49

[fluffnik]

308mate said:

Headlights on for visibility in the rearview, approach aggressively (they should have seen me by then, Im doing 95, not 125 so not a ridiculous closing speed), if no movement despite room to move, 1 extended flash of the lights, if still no movement and the left lane is clear, get by and get on with the job of dispatching the next one. If there are cars in the left lane, respectful but purposeful distance behind until they have the opportunity to move.

Watch mirrors for those doing 120 so as not to impede them. Everyone's agenda is different. Mine is no more or less important than anyone elses.

People with poor judgement, lacking observation skills and with limited experience will find this approach arrogant. The problem lies with them, not me.

That's not aggressive, that's assertive.

There's a lot to be said for being big in the mirrors whilst approaching slower and apparently inattentive traffic...

[308mate]

fluffnik said:

308mate said:

Headlights on for visibility in the rearview, approach aggressively (they should have seen me by then, Im doing 95, not 125 so not a ridiculous closing speed), if no movement despite room to move, 1 extended flash of the lights, if still no movement and the left lane is clear, get by and get on with the job of dispatching the next one. If there are cars in the left lane, respectful but purposeful distance behind until they have the opportunity to move.

Watch mirrors for those doing 120 so as not to impede them. Everyone's agenda is different. Mine is no more or less important than anyone elses.

People with poor judgement, lacking observation skills and with limited experience will find this approach arrogant. The problem lies with them, not me.

That's not aggressive, that's assertive.

There's a lot to be said for being big in the mirrors whilst approaching slower and apparently inattentive traffic...

Exactly

But the OP didnt offer assertive as an option on the poll. Which says something about the OP I would say.

[ge0rge]

I pass on the left all the time as long as its clearly safe to do so. Ive seen on mways in the past the keep left signage but not very often.. Retesting !