RE: Unveiled: Caterham's Dramatic New SP/300.R

[EDLT]

I think everyone expected a Radical clone when Caterham announced they were making a new car.

[TonyHetherington]

Radical have today launched an update to their range of cars too;

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[SpunkyM]

This will be no good for the typical track day... in that it wil be too good. You soon get bored of outbreaking everybody 2:1 and driving around the outside of them on every bend!

Would be a lot of fun in a race series though.

[jacjac]

Can't help feeling disappointment! I had heard Caterham were coming out with a new car and was hoping for a light weight, drivers road-bias car, just a little bit more user friendly than a 7. Without all the mamby-pamby driver aids associated with most modern performance cars. Looks like Caterham's take on a Radical/Westfield. But producing low volume sports cars is a tough old game to survive in in todays market. Having experienced the Caterham set up 1st hand in the 2006 Academy I wish them every success.

[markCSC]

mattmurdock said:

According to the tech specs in the brochure this is what you get for £72k incl VAT in the UK
stuff

£72K!!!!

[k-ink]

Flip those numbers around and we'll talk

[[AJ]]

I like it, but if the price figures being chucked about are correct, then I can understand why they're only planning to sell 25 per year.

[taders]

Looks great but I'd love to have seen Caterham produce a new affordable English sports car. A modern day, smaller engined Chimaera type car that's practical enough to drive rain or shine but put a smile on the face and be relatively cheap to run. Difficult to make money doing such these days blah blah blah.

[HundredthIdiot]

TonyHetherington said:

Radical have today launched an update to their range of cars too;

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Amusingly, if you google radical sports cars, the first link says "Radical Sports Cars - We Are Sorry".

Since the website is down, can anyone say what the cheapest Radical is (with a reasonable minimum of options included)?

[Banjo47]

Finchy172 said:

It looks stunning, like all CN2 derived cars. However I feel its 5 years too late.

Majority of the old CSR, R400 racers went onto VdeV in Norma's, Ligiers and Juno's which were on price comparison slightly more expensive but came with greater downforce and better transmission and paddle shift etc.
The issue is those guys left 2-5 years ago and the market for this kind of expensive track day toy is very limited now.
Its a shame they didnt go at it alone but with limited funds for devlopment and no CFD, Simulation in house Lola is a sensible choice to ensure the car has speed and reliability on circuit.
Radical have the one make race series' sewn up with the range of cars, good support, and spares support which Caterham always failed to deliver.

If its to make a successful race series then I hope caterham can support it as they should do and tempt some of the old customers back and strictly scrutinise the championship as there is large scope for modification.

For now I shall stick my series 3!

The guys that left 2 to 5 years ago went on to other things as you say - but only because Caterham had nothing else to offer at that point. The new R300 series is already massively oversubscribed and hugely popular with drivers progressing through Academy, Roadsport B, Supersports and R300. There is considerable brand loyalty amongst Caterham racers and the support is actually excellent at race meetings though Caterham Midlands. I suspect there are several R300 drivers already licking their lips at the prospect of a race series involving these cars.

They look absolutely stunning too - I think the Lola hook up with Caterham is an inspired move for both companies. Radical is a great product too but they cant compete with that kind of motorport hertitage.

I am sure if they drive as well as they look - and sure there will be teething problems - but to me this is a very clever and inspired move.

[Snoggledog]

What was the red car in the background of the Vid? That looked very interesting.

[juansolo]

CedricTheBrave said:

New Caterham weight 545kg
new Radical Kurb weight 675kg!
thats quite a difference don't you think? or am I missing something?
Oh and I did say she was going to be a show girl

Caterkilos vs reality I suspect. CN spec cars (which this essentially is) generally seem to be in to 600+ kg range (depending on fuel load). The Radical quote is probably with a full tank of fuel. Caterham is probably dry.

[woof]

The lola's bodywork is carbon fibre - and slightly different
Everything underneath is nearly identical

ArosaMike said:

woof said:

Caterham

Wheelbase 2600mm
Overall length 4200mm
Overall width 1700mm
Ford Duratec Engine
Hewland JFR 5-speed manual

LOLA
■ Wheelbase 2600 mm
■ Overall length 4600 mm
■ Overall width 1660 mm

Edited by woof on Thursday 13th January 12:58

I would hardly say that's identical. It's similar yes, but then it's bound to be as it's a small sportscar with downforce and a Duratec engine! Compare your average road car (A6, 5 Series, XF etc) and they'll all be within 100-200mm of each other on wheelbase and length.

[Kev M]

One make race series starting in 2012 and they hope to make 25 a year? That's going to be a pretty small starting grid isn't it?

[mattmurdock]

woof said:

The lola's bodywork is carbon fibre - and slightly different
Everything underneath is nearly identical

ArosaMike said:

woof said:

Caterham

Wheelbase 2600mm
Overall length 4200mm
Overall width 1700mm
Ford Duratec Engine
Hewland JFR 5-speed manual

LOLA
■ Wheelbase 2600 mm
■ Overall length 4600 mm
■ Overall width 1660 mm

Edited by woof on Thursday 13th January 12:58

I would hardly say that's identical. It's similar yes, but then it's bound to be as it's a small sportscar with downforce and a Duratec engine! Compare your average road car (A6, 5 Series, XF etc) and they'll all be within 100-200mm of each other on wheelbase and length.

Apart from the fact it has 100 more horsepower...

[L100NYY]

Snoggledog said:

What was the red car in the background of the Vid? That looked very interesting.

One of these -> http://www.youtube.com/user/track4fun#p/u/10/rGeS2...

[mattmurdock]

HundredthIdiot said:

TonyHetherington said:

Radical have today launched an update to their range of cars too;

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Amusingly, if you google radical sports cars, the first link says "Radical Sports Cars - We Are Sorry".

Since the website is down, can anyone say what the cheapest Radical is (with a reasonable minimum of options included)?

The current bottom of the range is the SR4 CS (which is not a direct competitor for the Caterham, that would be the SR3) which is probably around £35k to £40k + VAT.

The SR3 (as it indicates in the Pistonheads article) is £67k + VAT without any options.

[RobM77]

mattmurdock said:

HundredthIdiot said:

TonyHetherington said:

Radical have today launched an update to their range of cars too;

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Amusingly, if you google radical sports cars, the first link says "Radical Sports Cars - We Are Sorry".

Since the website is down, can anyone say what the cheapest Radical is (with a reasonable minimum of options included)?

The current bottom of the range is the SR4 CS (which is not a direct competitor for the Caterham, that would be the SR3) which is probably around £35k to £40k + VAT.

The SR3 (as it indicates in the Pistonheads article) is £67k + VAT without any options.

Doesn't this new Caterham sit between the SR3 and SR8; in power at least?

[DonkeyApple]

Banjo47 said:

Finchy172 said:

It looks stunning, like all CN2 derived cars. However I feel its 5 years too late.

Majority of the old CSR, R400 racers went onto VdeV in Norma's, Ligiers and Juno's which were on price comparison slightly more expensive but came with greater downforce and better transmission and paddle shift etc.
The issue is those guys left 2-5 years ago and the market for this kind of expensive track day toy is very limited now.
Its a shame they didnt go at it alone but with limited funds for devlopment and no CFD, Simulation in house Lola is a sensible choice to ensure the car has speed and reliability on circuit.
Radical have the one make race series' sewn up with the range of cars, good support, and spares support which Caterham always failed to deliver.

If its to make a successful race series then I hope caterham can support it as they should do and tempt some of the old customers back and strictly scrutinise the championship as there is large scope for modification.

For now I shall stick my series 3!

The guys that left 2 to 5 years ago went on to other things as you say - but only because Caterham had nothing else to offer at that point. The new R300 series is already massively oversubscribed and hugely popular with drivers progressing through Academy, Roadsport B, Supersports and R300. There is considerable brand loyalty amongst Caterham racers and the support is actually excellent at race meetings though Caterham Midlands. I suspect there are several R300 drivers already licking their lips at the prospect of a race series involving these cars.

They look absolutely stunning too - I think the Lola hook up with Caterham is an inspired move for both companies. Radical is a great product too but they cant compete with that kind of motorport hertitage.

I am sure if they drive as well as they look - and sure there will be teething problems - but to me this is a very clever and inspired move.

It seems a very logical product if they have existing clients who have good loyalty but are outgrowing (for want of a better term) the current range of race cars available to them from Caterham.

I'm sure they have done their numbers and spoken at length to existing clients who may be looking to move upwards in their racing in order to derive this product.

A road car would have been nice but if you have a significant portion of your revenue, and if it is solid, coming from racing and there is a niche to fill there then it is a much more sensible choice than risking a new road car, which the last time they tried did not exactly go well.

[ziplob]

is it not a bit of a waste of time by cateringvan as this end of the market is pretty well filled in