RE: SOTW: Saab 900 Turbo(s)
Discussion
The Donster said:
I really wish people would stop referring to massive torquesteer as a problem on these cars. It was never as bad as some have made out.
This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
Re torque steer - did you ever drive a "Viggen"? That thing wouldn't drive in a straight line on dry tarmac at 3/4 throttle. Torque steer at tickover in the wet.This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
ok, so i'm exaggerating a little, but it really, really was very bad. They should keep one for university automotive engineering students to drive just to see how bad a poorly designed fwd setup can be.
rob.e said:
The Donster said:
I really wish people would stop referring to massive torquesteer as a problem on these cars. It was never as bad as some have made out.
This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
Re torque steer - did you ever drive a "Viggen"? That thing wouldn't drive in a straight line on dry tarmac at 3/4 throttle. Torque steer at tickover in the wet.This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
ok, so i'm exaggerating a little, but it really, really was very bad. They should keep one for university automotive engineering students to drive just to see how bad a poorly designed fwd setup can be.
rob.e said:
Re torque steer - did you ever drive a "Viggen"? That thing wouldn't drive in a straight line on dry tarmac at 3/4 throttle. Torque steer at tickover in the wet.
ok, so i'm exaggerating a little, but it really, really was very bad. They should keep one for university automotive engineering students to drive just to see how bad a poorly designed fwd setup can be.
Yeah, but there's where the confusion comes from - the Viggen is based on a Vauxhall Cavalier floorpan that was never designed to take an engine with that sort of torque output, while the pre- '94 900s had slanted longitudinal engines, double wishbones, equal length driveshafts and - crucially - a steering rack that was bolted directly to the chassis instead of being located with a sheetmetal clamp attached to the bulkhead...ok, so i'm exaggerating a little, but it really, really was very bad. They should keep one for university automotive engineering students to drive just to see how bad a poorly designed fwd setup can be.
Blame GM for the faux-pas that was the NG900/OG 9-3 (although the latter had been pretty comprehensively re-engineered at Trollhättan to alleviate the biggest faults, bolting a high-boost 2.3 litre 9000 lump to it was taking it one step too far)...
900T-R said:
rob.e said:
Re torque steer - did you ever drive a "Viggen"? That thing wouldn't drive in a straight line on dry tarmac at 3/4 throttle. Torque steer at tickover in the wet.
ok, so i'm exaggerating a little, but it really, really was very bad. They should keep one for university automotive engineering students to drive just to see how bad a poorly designed fwd setup can be.
Yeah, but there's where the confusion comes from - the Viggen is based on a Vauxhall Cavalier floorpan that was never designed to take an engine with that sort of torque output, while the pre- '94 900s had slanted longitudinal engines, double wishbones, equal length driveshafts and - crucially - a steering rack that was bolted directly to the chassis instead of being located with a sheetmetal clamp attached to the bulkhead...ok, so i'm exaggerating a little, but it really, really was very bad. They should keep one for university automotive engineering students to drive just to see how bad a poorly designed fwd setup can be.
Blame GM for the faux-pas that was the NG900/OG 9-3 (although the latter had been pretty comprehensively re-engineered at Trollhättan to alleviate the biggest faults, bolting a high-boost 2.3 litre 9000 lump to it was taking it one step too far)...
rob.e said:
The Donster said:
I really wish people would stop referring to massive torquesteer as a problem on these cars. It was never as bad as some have made out.
This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
Re torque steer - did you ever drive a "Viggen"? This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
The Viggen was based on the 9-3 which is a COMPLETELY different car, with a completely different bodyshell/engine/transmission/suspension layout making your comparison totally irrelevant
There's a lot wrong in that original post, one of the things being harping on about torquesteer, which was never really a big problem with the 900.
All post 900 Saab designs, with the transverse engine arrangement, such as 9000, GM900, 9-3, 9-5 etc., yes, these do have a much greater tendancy to torquesteer.
Also, the CD player skipping was nothing whatsoever to do with scuttle shake on the convertibles, the 900's with metal roofs did the same, it was due to where the CD changer was located in the later cars, bolted to the floor pan under the rear load floor.
Dad used to have an 8v Turbo, stupidly fast car with a nice habit of the turbo kicking in half way round a roundabout resulting in massive understeer as the tyres decide they no longer want to grip! This is the slightly less powerful 16v I think which would be more predictable 
Top Shed though! 
Top Shed though! I read an article in the FT weekend mag (as you do) which claimed that Saab owners like their cars more than owners of any other car brand eg Saab owners like their Saabs more than Beemer owners like their Beemers etc. That must be a good thing, or perhaps all Saab owners are a bit odd(!) I'm a big fan have test drove a couple of 9000s but for various reasons never found the right one, maybe i'm too fussy, would really like a 9-3 convertible but my dad has just bought one, so though i don't see him very often i would look like a bit of a wally at family functions... 
chunkymonkey71 said:
Steamer said:
Ummmm gorgeously ugly 
...but then again I quite like Sarah Jessica Parker.
Are you kidding? I'd rather do the SAAB...!...but then again I quite like Sarah Jessica Parker.
Good sheds- not convinced the 1000 quid budget is where the sweet spot is in the UK's scrappage perverted banger market however.
My friend's dad had one of these. I was quite young when he had it but the thing I liked most was the sound. I think this car is probably solely responsible for my love for turbo'd engines. Great Burble...
There is one near where I live with what I believe to be a Carlsson body kit but also a fruity exhaust... Very cheeky!!!
Great SOTW
There is one near where I live with what I believe to be a Carlsson body kit but also a fruity exhaust... Very cheeky!!!
Great SOTW
The Donster said:
That G-plate one looks an odd spec, too - Aero side trim, no Aero wheels and windy windows. Hmmm.
There was no Aero variant in 1989/90; the quickest ones were then called Carlsson in the UK and had a much more obtrusive bodykit. So I think it's probably in original condition. Those 15" alloys were on virtually every non-Carlsson Saab sold in the last couple of years of the 1980s.Edited by The Donster on Friday 14th January 10:36
I had a black 900SE 2.0 16v as my second car.
Was a great car but eventually the gearbox gave up (in the outside lane of the M4).
Working on them was interesting. I had great trouble replacing the alternator belt, they run a dual belt system and it took forever to find two belts that were identically sized, even from the same manufacturer. One was always tight as a drum and the other was like throwing a woodbine down Northumberland Street. Managed it in the end.
One of these with winter tyres would be unstoppable in the snow.
Was a great car but eventually the gearbox gave up (in the outside lane of the M4).
Working on them was interesting. I had great trouble replacing the alternator belt, they run a dual belt system and it took forever to find two belts that were identically sized, even from the same manufacturer. One was always tight as a drum and the other was like throwing a woodbine down Northumberland Street. Managed it in the end.
One of these with winter tyres would be unstoppable in the snow.
Jobbo said:
The Donster said:
That G-plate one looks an odd spec, too - Aero side trim, no Aero wheels and windy windows. Hmmm.
There was no Aero variant in 1989/90; the quickest ones were then called Carlsson in the UK and had a much more obtrusive bodykit. So I think it's probably in original condition. Those 15" alloys were on virtually every non-Carlsson Saab sold in the last couple of years of the 1980s.Edited by The Donster on Friday 14th January 10:36
Also, the wheels on the windy-window car in the ad were Turbo-only - you're thinking of these:
W00DY said:
My old man had a couple when I was growing up - I learnt to drive in one!
The Donster said:
I really wish people would stop referring to massive torquesteer as a problem on these cars. It was never as bad as some have made out.
This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
So you've simultaneously nullified one cliché and then opened up another one?This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
Edited by The Donster on Friday 14th January 10:28
Gotta love PH.
Jobbo said:
There was no Aero variant in 1989/90; the quickest ones were then called Carlsson in the UK and had a much more obtrusive bodykit. So I think it's probably in original condition. Those 15" alloys were on virtually every non-Carlsson Saab sold in the last couple of years of the 1980s.
Huh? Can you clarify the "no Aero variant" comment? I know/think it's clouded a bit by the Aero not really being a model per se, but the body kit. The Carlson was a very limited edition model.I had a Black D plate T16S back in the day and absolutely loved it it was just so different to any other car at the time. My mates would always take the mickey out of the Whale Tail spoiler or picnic table as they called it, but they would quickly shut up when you planted your right foot and the turbo kicked in. Got shot of it in the end due to lots of electrical gremlins and ended up buying an Alfa. Oh the irony...the alfa was brilliant to drive but the electrics like all Alfa electrics were fitted on a Friday afternoon.
Great Pretender said:
The Donster said:
I really wish people would stop referring to massive torquesteer as a problem on these cars. It was never as bad as some have made out.
This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
So you've simultaneously nullified one cliché and then opened up another one?This was old-school turbocharging at its best. Lag, yes, torquesteer, yes, but very managable - not like a Focus RS. Utterly brilliant cars to drive and own and a crying shame I still don't have my flat-front T16S.
Edited by The Donster on Friday 14th January 10:28
Gotta love PH.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff