RE: Cooper SD Diesel Hot Hatch Set For Geneva

[HellDiver]

Corsair7 said:

HellDiver said:

140hp diesel is "hot hatch" now? What are you guys smoking?!?

Its the torque not the BHP that will make this car 'fun' to drive......

It really won't, sorry. How much torque do you need going to the next house viewing, or perm appointment?

[RB Will]

I was told from a BMW insider that the engine in this car will be the one from the BMW 120D. Which in the 1 series gives 163bhp / 250lbft, 50mpg 137mph top end and 0-62 in 7.9. I presume the Mini is a bit lighter but may suffer with grip doing the 0-60 but that is only going to be 1 sec shy of a Focus ST which won't do 50mpg.

Also consider the Mini Cooper S only does 140mph and 0-60 in 7.1 sec.

[Garlick]

I'd rather like one of these for a second car actually. Fun handling, decent zip and good economy.

It would have to be a used one mind you, so maybe in a few years time.

[Chris71]

Oddball RS said:

"with genuine warm-hatch performance (0-62mph in 9.7secs)"

Depends what you class as warm (as opposed to hot).

I drove one back-to-back with a previous generation Fiesta ST and there wasn't a huge difference in real world performance.

The Fiesta was a little sharper and perhaps fractionally quicker if you rang its neck, but where there was a big difference was how much more grown up the MINI felt. The ride, refinement and power delivery were all far more civilised (as befits the price difference, to be fair) and the fuel economy was in a different league. With the exception of luggage space it remains one of the best all-round cars I've come across.

[Mafioso]

honest1 said:

I Think Your Both Missing The Point. This Is More About An Engine Which Is road tax and a London congestion charge Free Thanks Too 99g/km CO2, And can return 70+MPG... Also Can Hit 60 MPH In Less Than 10 Sec.
With Fuel Prices The Way They Are We Need More Cars Like This. :-)

Whilst I agree, why are you capitalising every word!?

[mister.t]

Chris71 said:

This is interesting. The original Cooper D was a spectacularly 'complete' car IMHO - genuine driver appeal and reasonable pace for what it was, combined with small car frugality and big car refinement. Haven't driven the facelifted one but I presume it's every bit as good, so a hotter version could be fantastic.

The new BMW is well ahead of the PSA unit, which is saying something because I agree that the PSA unit in the Cooper D was very good. I'd say the PSA is more economical, but the BMW is quieter, smoother, as well as being quicker to pick up and go too. I was so close to buying one to replace my 1st Gen Cooper (Petrol), but in the end the total figure at the end wasn't favourable (nearly £20k, and it wasn't a completely insane spec, no nav, sunroof or full leather). As brilliant as the car was, I couldn't justify spending 4 times the value of my car, which isn't 4 times worse no matter which way you see it. My number one priority in a car has to be the way it makes me feel, and despite having over 80k on the clock and coming up to 10 years old, my 1st gen MINI never fails to make me smile, especially when shown some twisties at over 4.5k rpm

[nickfrog]

DaGuv said:

Its not a hatch back, the Mini is in the supermini class. The only competition for this at the moment is the Ibiza 2.0 TDI FR which is also 140bhp, so its spot on.

Never understood the work "supermini" but both cars can't be in the same "class" (or marketing segment). One is a two-seater with a tiny boot and occasional tiny rear seats (Mini), the other feels like a cruise liner space-wise in comparison (Ibiza).

[leon9191]

My mothers got a Cooper D and it is a really lovely car, its a big jump in performace over the original (phase 1) MINI diesel which she also had.

They are expensive for such a small car but the quality is outstanding and they hold their value really well, whats not to like.

Edited by leon9191 on Monday 17th January 11:41

[pilchardthecat]

boredofmyoldname said:

pilchardthecat said:

Oddball RS said:

"with genuine warm-hatch performance (0-62mph in 9.7secs)"

??????????????????

Exactly my thoughts. It's respectable enough for an "ordinary" car, but it's not "warm"

To be fair those are the figures for the current Eco-warrior Cooper D. Oh and a 205GTI (CAT) takes around 8 seconds to hit 60 and was lighter, had less safety toys and was considered a hothatch in its day. Therefore a sub 10 second 60 time must be warm.

There is a big difference between a lightwieght 8s 1980s hot hatch and a 10s car.

There are a whole bunch of ordinary family hacks that get to 60 in 9 or 10 seconds these days. A 1.4 Fiat Panda is quicker than this, so is a 1.4 Vauxhall Astra.

The boggo Citroen ZX TD did it in 10.3s nearly 20 years ago

[Escort Si-130]

Booooo at Diesel

[boredofmyoldname]

pilchardthecat said:

boredofmyoldname said:

pilchardthecat said:

Oddball RS said:

"with genuine warm-hatch performance (0-62mph in 9.7secs)"

??????????????????

Exactly my thoughts. It's respectable enough for an "ordinary" car, but it's not "warm"

To be fair those are the figures for the current Eco-warrior Cooper D. Oh and a 205GTI (CAT) takes around 8 seconds to hit 60 and was lighter, had less safety toys and was considered a hothatch in its day. Therefore a sub 10 second 60 time must be warm.

There is a big difference between a lightwieght 8s 1980s hot hatch and a 10s car.

There are a whole bunch of ordinary family hacks that get to 60 in 9 or 10 seconds these days. A 1.4 Fiat Panda is quicker than this, so is a 1.4 Vauxhall Astra.

The boggo Citroen ZX TD did it in 10.3s nearly 20 years ago

Maybe so but IMO there is much much more to making a car a warm or hot hatch than it being simply quick to 60. My Volvo does 60 in less time than the current cooper D and I would never describe that as a warm or hot hatch, in fact SWMBOs KA does a much better job of feeling like one despite taking 15 seconds to hit 60.

[A Scotsman]

Pity really that Minis are just so plug ugly and boring.

[Frimley111R]

honest1 said:

I Think Your Both Missing The Point. This Is More About An Engine Which Is road tax and a London congestion charge Free Thanks Too 99g/km CO2, And can return 70+MPG... Also Can Hit 60 MPH In Less Than 10 Sec.
With Fuel Prices The Way They Are We Need More Cars Like This. :-)

Your post needs more capital letters.

[Antj]

Hardly hot is it.

All those rumours of the 177bhp 2.0 1 series engine going in fell flat then.

to be honest the only true Hot Hatch diesel came out of production 2 years ago. So far the best is the Seat Ibiza Cupra Tdi. With 160bhp standard and 4 pots and a great chassis nothing has come close yet. With a spice of REVO it was up in the 200-210bhp area too. Nice

Mini SD must try harder imho.

[Frimley111R]

A Scotsman said:

Pity really that Minis are just so plug ugly and boring.

Eh? I'm no big MINI fan but they are neither of those things.

[georgetuk]

Thats pretty naff figures, it is MINI though so figures don't matter so much as style. Can't imagine the girls in their drop-top MINIs are concerned about the speed figures and less so all the Foxtons guys!

But yes figures are rubbish, yes there is less economy but the Civic Type-S 56 plate is 0-60 in 8secs.

It is a luke-warm hatch I would say, perhaps tepid!

[havoc]

Corsair7 said:

HellDiver said:

140hp diesel is "hot hatch" now? What are you guys smoking?!?

Its the torque not the BHP that will make this car 'fun' to drive......

Torque makes a car easy to drive, not fun. Not unless you've got oodles of it driving the rear wheels, that is...

[Garlick]

havoc said:

Corsair7 said:

HellDiver said:

140hp diesel is "hot hatch" now? What are you guys smoking?!?

Its the torque not the BHP that will make this car 'fun' to drive......

Torque makes a car easy to drive, not fun. Not unless you've got oodles of it driving the rear wheels, that is...

Havoc, I know you are a man of extensive car knowledge, and are a good bloke to boot, so I say this with respect.

I have always enjoyed cars with good torque low-down for the way they fire out of lower speed corners or accelerate with ease. OK, so it does make them easier to drive but I'd argue that in the right car it does add to the fun too, and is often what makes big diesels so much fun to drive. Perhaps it's horses for courses and all that?

[britsportscars]

Looks like something Noddy and Big Ears would drive!

[boredofmyoldname]

Garlick said:

havoc said:

Corsair7 said:

HellDiver said:

140hp diesel is "hot hatch" now? What are you guys smoking?!?

Its the torque not the BHP that will make this car 'fun' to drive......

Torque makes a car easy to drive, not fun. Not unless you've got oodles of it driving the rear wheels, that is...

Havoc, I know you are a man of extensive car knowledge, and are a good bloke to boot, so I say this with respect.

I have always enjoyed cars with good torque low-down for the way they fire out of lower speed corners or accelerate with ease. OK, so it does make them easier to drive but I'd argue that in the right car it does add to the fun too, and is often what makes big diesels so much fun to drive. Perhaps it's horses for courses and all that?

Having owned a small diesel car the torque most certainly makes it more fun on a road with a series of slow/tight corners than a petrol car with a similar bhp figure. Providing the front end isn't wooly because of the weight (yes fabia vrs I mean you!) then there is no reason having a diesel power plant can't provide a few occasional grins.