RE: Cooper SD Diesel Hot Hatch Set For Geneva

[dandarez]

Frimley111R said:

honest1 said:

I Think Your Both Missing The Point. This Is More About An Engine Which Is road tax and a London congestion charge Free Thanks Too 99g/km CO2, And can return 70+MPG... Also Can Hit 60 MPH In Less Than 10 Sec.
With Fuel Prices The Way They Are We Need More Cars Like This. :-)

Your post needs more capital letters.

I think he capitalising on it...

[Antj]

A diesel in the right chassis works wonders. For example the 120d and 123d both have loads of power and are blessed with a superb chassis which makes them great on track or on the commute to work.

Where as the Cooper D has not been blessed with a great engine. The chassis may be good the 1.6 diesel is laggy. I found when i had one for a few weeks that you always felt like you were in the wrong gear. Roundabouts became very dicey as you would pull on and have no go, then all of a sudden bang you were off. always felt like you were on a bungey chord with the added scare of a car heading towards your door.

will await official details on this before judging fully though.

[boredofmyoldname]

Antj said:

Roundabouts became very dicey as you would pull on and have no go, then all of a sudden bang you were off. always felt like you were on a bungey chord with the added scare of a car heading towards your door.

What's not to like

[Supervet]

dandarez said:

Frimley111R said:

honest1 said:

I Think Your Both Missing The Point. This Is More About An Engine Which Is road tax and a London congestion charge Free Thanks Too 99g/km CO2, And can return 70+MPG... Also Can Hit 60 MPH In Less Than 10 Sec.
With Fuel Prices The Way They Are We Need More Cars Like This. :-)

Your post needs more capital letters.

I think he capitalising on it...

Here are some capital letters -







LONDON PARIS

[y2blade]

oh god, this will have all the muppets squabbling...oh wait!!!!

[va1o]

Will be impressive if they can get 140bhp out of the new 1.6 diesel engine used in the One D/ Cooper D

I guess it will be pretty similar to the old Skoda Fabia VRS and new SEAT Ibiza FR TDI performance-wise.

[havoc]

Garlick said:

I have always enjoyed cars with good torque low-down for the way they fire out of lower speed corners or accelerate with ease. OK, so it does make them easier to drive but I'd argue that in the right car it does add to the fun too, and is often what makes big diesels so much fun to drive. Perhaps it's horses for courses and all that?

Agree with a lot of that - some people do like that 'kick' and the easy access to power. And I may ( ) have been being deliberately provocative...

TBH I was mainly aiming the comment at front-drivers - I freely admit I'm not a big fan of front-drive powerful diesels, due to the effect on the steering* that sudden slug of torque has. In your case I suspect they've been rwd machines, which removes my main gripe and just leaves it down to engine preference - torque vs revs.



* Or the numbing of the steering required to reduce the torque-steer to manageable proportions.

[va1o]

Oddball RS said:

"with genuine warm-hatch performance (0-62mph in 9.7secs)"



??????????????????

That's referring to the 110bhp Cooper D, there are no performance figures yet for the rumoured 140bhp Cooper SD

I'd expect something in the region of 8 secs +/- 0.5 secs

[Pwig]

Antj said:

Hardly hot is it.

All those rumours of the 177bhp 2.0 1 series engine going in fell flat then.

to be honest the only true Hot Hatch diesel came out of production 2 years ago. So far the best is the Seat Ibiza Cupra Tdi. With 160bhp standard and 4 pots and a great chassis nothing has come close yet. With a spice of REVO it was up in the 200-210bhp area too. Nice

Mini SD must try harder imho.

What about the 170bhp Alfa 147 Ducati Corse?

[va1o]

RB Will said:

I was told from a BMW insider that the engine in this car will be the one from the BMW 120D. Which in the 1 series gives 163bhp / 250lbft, 50mpg 137mph top end and 0-62 in 7.9. I presume the Mini is a bit lighter but may suffer with grip doing the 0-60 but that is only going to be 1 sec shy of a Focus ST which won't do 50mpg.

Wrong on several counts. The 120D engine is 177bhp and capable of 60mpg+, and its not just used in the 1-series its fitted to most of the BMW range. Its unlikely it will be used in the MINI as its designed for RWD longitundinal applications, and clearly the MINI is a FWD vehicle with transverse engines.

[honest1]

Supervet said:

dandarez said:

Frimley111R said:

honest1 said:

I Think Your Both Missing The Point. This Is More About An Engine Which Is road tax and a London congestion charge Free Thanks Too 99g/km CO2, And can return 70+MPG... Also Can Hit 60 MPH In Less Than 10 Sec.
With Fuel Prices The Way They Are We Need More Cars Like This. :-)

Your post needs more capital letters.

I think he capitalising on it...

Here are some capital letters -

Well thank you very much. I have taken all you have to say into account. I hope this is an easier post for you to read.
But really after the first reply I got the message. So thank you all.







LONDON PARIS

[adycav]

I wonder if they could cram the two litre, twin turbo engine from the 123d in there? That would be worth getting excited about.




Anyway, I think I'm right in saying that the old shape Ibiza Cupra TDi with its stonking 160ps motor is STILL the daddy of small fast diesels, despite being for sale bloomin ages ago.

[pilchardthecat]

boredofmyoldname said:

pilchardthecat said:

boredofmyoldname said:

pilchardthecat said:

Oddball RS said:

"with genuine warm-hatch performance (0-62mph in 9.7secs)"

??????????????????

Exactly my thoughts. It's respectable enough for an "ordinary" car, but it's not "warm"

To be fair those are the figures for the current Eco-warrior Cooper D. Oh and a 205GTI (CAT) takes around 8 seconds to hit 60 and was lighter, had less safety toys and was considered a hothatch in its day. Therefore a sub 10 second 60 time must be warm.

There is a big difference between a lightwieght 8s 1980s hot hatch and a 10s car.

There are a whole bunch of ordinary family hacks that get to 60 in 9 or 10 seconds these days. A 1.4 Fiat Panda is quicker than this, so is a 1.4 Vauxhall Astra.

The boggo Citroen ZX TD did it in 10.3s nearly 20 years ago

Maybe so but IMO there is much much more to making a car a warm or hot hatch than it being simply quick to 60. My Volvo does 60 in less time than the current cooper D and I would never describe that as a warm or hot hatch, in fact SWMBOs KA does a much better job of feeling like one despite taking 15 seconds to hit 60.

Now you're confusing fun with performance.

[mk1chopper]

Antj said:

Hardly hot is it.

All those rumours of the 177bhp 2.0 1 series engine going in fell flat then.

to be honest the only true Hot Hatch diesel came out of production 2 years ago. So far the best is the Seat Ibiza Cupra Tdi. With 160bhp standard and 4 pots and a great chassis nothing has come close yet. With a spice of REVO it was up in the 200-210bhp area too. Nice

Mini SD must try harder imho.

What about the Renault megane 175?

[pilchardthecat]

mk1chopper said:

Antj said:

Hardly hot is it.

All those rumours of the 177bhp 2.0 1 series engine going in fell flat then.

to be honest the only true Hot Hatch diesel came out of production 2 years ago. So far the best is the Seat Ibiza Cupra Tdi. With 160bhp standard and 4 pots and a great chassis nothing has come close yet. With a spice of REVO it was up in the 200-210bhp area too. Nice

Mini SD must try harder imho.

What about the Renault megane 175?

The 123d is easily the best diesel hot hatch. It urinates all over the ibiza in almost every way (althought it is bloody expensive for what it is).

[a11y_m]

Seems like a missed opportunity IMO. They already have the 110bhp Cooper D, so why not give a Cooper SD a bit more oompf than "only" 30bhp more? I'd imagine a diesel MINI with 160-180bhp, with the associated torque, would fit into the MINI range a bit better?

Just seems to me they could give it something more to better differentiate it from the Cooper D...

[Oddball RS]

dandarez said:

Frimley111R said:

honest1 said:

I Think Your Both Missing The Point. This Is More About An Engine Which Is road tax and a London congestion charge Free Thanks Too 99g/km CO2, And can return 70+MPG... Also Can Hit 60 MPH In Less Than 10 Sec.
With Fuel Prices The Way They Are We Need More Cars Like This. :-)

Your post needs more capital letters.

I think he capitalising on it...

I don't live in London, so don't give a s*it about the sudafed charge, and no car that does 0-60 in 10 seconds can be called fun (Today), because being done at the lights by a half loaded van isn't fun!

[Cotty]

Diesel and Cooper in the same sentence. He will be spinning in his grave.

[RobCrezz]

va1o said:

RB Will said:

I was told from a BMW insider that the engine in this car will be the one from the BMW 120D. Which in the 1 series gives 163bhp / 250lbft, 50mpg 137mph top end and 0-62 in 7.9. I presume the Mini is a bit lighter but may suffer with grip doing the 0-60 but that is only going to be 1 sec shy of a Focus ST which won't do 50mpg.

Wrong on several counts. The 120D engine is 177bhp and capable of 60mpg+, and its not just used in the 1-series its fitted to most of the BMW range. Its unlikely it will be used in the MINI as its designed for RWD longitundinal applications, and clearly the MINI is a FWD vehicle with transverse engines.

I think he might be right, this isnt the first time that I have heard that BMW designed this engine to be mounted RWD and FWD...

[sicasey]

Corsair7 said:

HellDiver said:

140hp diesel is "hot hatch" now? What are you guys smoking?!?

Its the torque not the BHP that will make this car 'fun' to drive......

At last, someone with sense. I own a new MK5 Ibiza FR TDi and even though 140BHP does'nt sound like a rocket ship it is plenty enough in a car this size to pull it along very nicely. Remember, they fit the 2.0 TDi unit in much bigger VAG cars and they are considered fine to drive so imagine what it is like in a much smaller vehicle.