RE: PH Investigates: Trouble At The 'Ring
Discussion
guestGTR said:
For me its not just about the "lap" , its all about the road trip there the camaraderie with your pals , the atmosphere and banter in the Pistenklause , the steak on a stone
I've been going regularly since 2005 and I agree with the above. However, insurance is now a huge problem with most UK cars not being fully insured. I can't find anyone to insure me there anymore so I'm not going this year. Potentially you could have a coming together with someone else and end up with a HUGE third party claim.RossP said:
guestGTR said:
For me its not just about the "lap" , its all about the road trip there the camaraderie with your pals , the atmosphere and banter in the Pistenklause , the steak on a stone
I've been going regularly since 2005 and I agree with the above. However, insurance is now a huge problem with most UK cars not being fully insured. I can't find anyone to insure me there anymore so I'm not going this year. Potentially you could have a coming together with someone else and end up with a HUGE third party claim.Agree about cost of mistakes. I used to be gung ho about it, knowing I could rebuild my 205 for about £500 should I so need to. Now I have some slightly more expensive cars, I shan't be tracking them without insurance.
heebeegeetee said:
HereBeMonsters said:
PaulMoor said:
HereBeMonsters said:
Germans who object to tourists using "their" track and will pass on either side, at any point on the track, usually flashing lights and waving their arms.
I think seeing that on top gear was what finaly put me off wanting to go, Sabine Schmitz shouting and waving at other drivers for getting in her way. If I go on a circuit I want to be able to drive at my only ability, not what the person behind thinks I should be doing. (I took her driving at typical as she was happy to do that on TV)It's not just her though, it's these 50 year old w
kers who think they're Walter Rorhl in their GT 3 RSs. Well done, you have a fast car and know the circuit. Go to an organised track day if you don't want to be inconvienced by people like my brother in a 1.1 Saxo on his first ever lap.
1) You've never been there
2) Your tongue-in-cheekedness isn't coming across
HereBeMonsters said:
RossP said:
guestGTR said:
For me its not just about the "lap" , its all about the road trip there the camaraderie with your pals , the atmosphere and banter in the Pistenklause , the steak on a stone
I've been going regularly since 2005 and I agree with the above. However, insurance is now a huge problem with most UK cars not being fully insured. I can't find anyone to insure me there anymore so I'm not going this year. Potentially you could have a coming together with someone else and end up with a HUGE third party claim.Agree about cost of mistakes. I used to be gung ho about it, knowing I could rebuild my 205 for about £500 should I so need to. Now I have some slightly more expensive cars, I shan't be tracking them without insurance.
Edited by RossP on Tuesday 18th January 15:20
Such a sad piece of news to read, however I agree with the sentiment that is was bound to happen sooner or later.
Last year I went to the 'Ring, getting in a a couple of laps during an evening before awaiting our main Touristenfahrten evening the following day. Waiting at the Track, watching the action, we were then informed that the Tourist evening day had been cancelled that morning, the signs by the track changed that afternoon.
All this because the track had been doubled booked. A little frustrasted, with the on-site manager making no concessions for the large number of people who had arrived, expecting some track time.
When asking some of the staff and locals, they just replied "It's normal since the new people took over"
I know that all this won't prevent me for going there at least once a year, but I always stay at local small GastHauses and restaurants.
I didn't even know the massive complex was there until this year, though
Darren
Last year I went to the 'Ring, getting in a a couple of laps during an evening before awaiting our main Touristenfahrten evening the following day. Waiting at the Track, watching the action, we were then informed that the Tourist evening day had been cancelled that morning, the signs by the track changed that afternoon.
All this because the track had been doubled booked. A little frustrasted, with the on-site manager making no concessions for the large number of people who had arrived, expecting some track time.
When asking some of the staff and locals, they just replied "It's normal since the new people took over"
I know that all this won't prevent me for going there at least once a year, but I always stay at local small GastHauses and restaurants.
I didn't even know the massive complex was there until this year, though
Darren
I went for the first time in 2001, and it has changed a lot since then, but I still remember being undertaken/overtaken in daft places by locals when you have left them plenty of room and indicated a place for them to pass, bikes in my experience have guys on them who seem to take very daft risks, coming down the inside of you when there simply isnt enough room to pass safely....
I went last year and it wasnt much different, apart fom lots more helmuth's in british registered corsa's.....
I went last year and it wasnt much different, apart fom lots more helmuth's in british registered corsa's.....
I feel the people to blame are, us, the ring regulars and the internet. The people who are addicted and were drawn in by the charm of the place all those years ago.
it is our fault as all we do when we speak with others is preach about how good a place it is. We all actively encourage newbies to go and exeperience what we first found so exciting all those years ago.
I have been going since 2004 and have done just over 25 trips now. I have done a fair few tourist laps in that time and a few private track days ( the best way to do it now) looking back i think we have taken about 30 -40 odd new people on our trips over that time who have then gone on to visit more and more themselves.
Now we all know things are better when they are exclusive, for example you all thought you were call when you listened to underground garage in small exlcusive clubs, then it hit the mainstream and it wasn't cool anymore. Those of us who started going to le mans when it was hardcore back in the 1990's and still realtively unknown, now its been ruined by the mass brit influx and lost its special feel. And now its the turn of the ring, with magazines punting out free laps and the constant talk of the ring on the internet it was inevitable that big corporate business came in to take over. it alwasy does. ( its kind of liek what PH are trying to do to trackdays int he Uk by bumping up rpices to tag their name on it forcing others to put their prices up too.
But don't fear.....................
The ring does not need saving, the spirit won't be going anywhere. The VLN races will still be the same, the locals and the tourist laps will still be the same and best of all the local businesses and bars that make the place special will still be there.
so....... What can you all do.
vote with your euro, thats what.
Don't use the lindner and other related places. Give your money to the local businesses. Stay at the Tiergarten, the Burgstube, the Blau ecke, Sliders and Michaela's new guesthouse and the many other great local hotels. Eat at the pistenklaus, the comfy corner, pinnochios and all the other local restaurants. ( or the kurry vurst stand at Brunchen). You can choose where your money goes and you cane xperience the real nurburgring.
Yes it will change and yes it will have the complete bks make no sesne at all stupid elgislation appllied, but what else do you expect it's in Europe so sense never prevails. just thank your lucky stars its not in Spain as it would be even more corrupt.
i know for a fact that those of us who go all the time ( and we all know who we are as you usually see the same cars on the same ferry) will still go in 2011 and beyond, we just may be a little wiser where we spend our cash. Those who have never been will go to.
Whilst i think these stories are great to publicise the problems i do fear the scaremongering will do more damage than the actual corporate monster. I have already had emails from friends in autralia asking if they should bother coming tot he ring in the summer due to the problems reported in the media. so please remember a lot of the talk is negative and possibly damaging.
end of the day Ring rules, it is an addiction and you have been warned as its an expensive addiction, makes heroin look cheap.
it is our fault as all we do when we speak with others is preach about how good a place it is. We all actively encourage newbies to go and exeperience what we first found so exciting all those years ago.
I have been going since 2004 and have done just over 25 trips now. I have done a fair few tourist laps in that time and a few private track days ( the best way to do it now) looking back i think we have taken about 30 -40 odd new people on our trips over that time who have then gone on to visit more and more themselves.
Now we all know things are better when they are exclusive, for example you all thought you were call when you listened to underground garage in small exlcusive clubs, then it hit the mainstream and it wasn't cool anymore. Those of us who started going to le mans when it was hardcore back in the 1990's and still realtively unknown, now its been ruined by the mass brit influx and lost its special feel. And now its the turn of the ring, with magazines punting out free laps and the constant talk of the ring on the internet it was inevitable that big corporate business came in to take over. it alwasy does. ( its kind of liek what PH are trying to do to trackdays int he Uk by bumping up rpices to tag their name on it forcing others to put their prices up too.
But don't fear.....................
The ring does not need saving, the spirit won't be going anywhere. The VLN races will still be the same, the locals and the tourist laps will still be the same and best of all the local businesses and bars that make the place special will still be there.
so....... What can you all do.
vote with your euro, thats what.
Don't use the lindner and other related places. Give your money to the local businesses. Stay at the Tiergarten, the Burgstube, the Blau ecke, Sliders and Michaela's new guesthouse and the many other great local hotels. Eat at the pistenklaus, the comfy corner, pinnochios and all the other local restaurants. ( or the kurry vurst stand at Brunchen). You can choose where your money goes and you cane xperience the real nurburgring.
Yes it will change and yes it will have the complete b
ks make no sesne at all stupid elgislation appllied, but what else do you expect it's in Europe so sense never prevails. just thank your lucky stars its not in Spain as it would be even more corrupt.i know for a fact that those of us who go all the time ( and we all know who we are as you usually see the same cars on the same ferry) will still go in 2011 and beyond, we just may be a little wiser where we spend our cash. Those who have never been will go to.
Whilst i think these stories are great to publicise the problems i do fear the scaremongering will do more damage than the actual corporate monster. I have already had emails from friends in autralia asking if they should bother coming tot he ring in the summer due to the problems reported in the media. so please remember a lot of the talk is negative and possibly damaging.
end of the day Ring rules, it is an addiction and you have been warned as its an expensive addiction, makes heroin look cheap.
I have been going for 10 years, there have always been accidents on TF and I'm not sure there is more now than when the was back in 2001, the standard of driving is much the same, some brilliant some dahn right awful, bikers much the same.
The weather, the atmosphere, the fun, the fear, insurance implications all the same, Trackdays are more readilly available back then near to impossible, you can get a cold/hot drink that isnt vulger, accommodation has significantly improved. In all honesty i can't think of much that has got worse, ok on a really nice day the queues are mad but then I would expect it and it is more expensive but then my house is worth three times what its worth in 2001.
What I would like more than anything is a couple of companies who can offer comprehensive cover on TF, until such times I will mostly stick to Trackdays.
The weather, the atmosphere, the fun, the fear, insurance implications all the same, Trackdays are more readilly available back then near to impossible, you can get a cold/hot drink that isnt vulger, accommodation has significantly improved. In all honesty i can't think of much that has got worse, ok on a really nice day the queues are mad but then I would expect it and it is more expensive but then my house is worth three times what its worth in 2001.
What I would like more than anything is a couple of companies who can offer comprehensive cover on TF, until such times I will mostly stick to Trackdays.
I have also been going to the Ring for quite a few years and to see people blaming Top Gear for the Rings demise is crazy. There is so much more information available via the web, seeing the constant updates about (insert car manufacturer here) breaking the lap record. All of these things make you inquisitive and want to experience what it's all about.
I heard or read a comment saying there are two types of drivers at the Ring; those who have crashed and those that will crash.....
On every trip I've experienced near misses, heart stopping moments, awful overtaking and watching the air ambulance land to take some poor bloke to hospital in pieces. What surprised me was the subdued feeling watching the ambulance come off the circuit with smashed bikes and cars on the back of flat bed lorries. Then the lights go off and the barriers go up and people carry on as if nothing has just happened.
The guy who posted saying it's the experience of being there that sums up why I will go back. For me it's about a group of like minded people enjoying, watching, driving and being at the most incredible motor racing circuit in the world.
Paying the extra money for a lap ticket isn't ideal, but the people I feel sorry for are the people whose livelihoods are at risk. Lets face it, if it wasn't for that strip of 13 odd miles of tarmac looping through villages, I wouldn't have gone to visit. It's those people I feel sorry for.
I heard or read a comment saying there are two types of drivers at the Ring; those who have crashed and those that will crash.....
On every trip I've experienced near misses, heart stopping moments, awful overtaking and watching the air ambulance land to take some poor bloke to hospital in pieces. What surprised me was the subdued feeling watching the ambulance come off the circuit with smashed bikes and cars on the back of flat bed lorries. Then the lights go off and the barriers go up and people carry on as if nothing has just happened.
The guy who posted saying it's the experience of being there that sums up why I will go back. For me it's about a group of like minded people enjoying, watching, driving and being at the most incredible motor racing circuit in the world.
Paying the extra money for a lap ticket isn't ideal, but the people I feel sorry for are the people whose livelihoods are at risk. Lets face it, if it wasn't for that strip of 13 odd miles of tarmac looping through villages, I wouldn't have gone to visit. It's those people I feel sorry for.
Edited by motor mad on Tuesday 18th January 17:19
PaulMoor said:
HereBeMonsters said:
Germans who object to tourists using "their" track and will pass on either side, at any point on the track, usually flashing lights and waving their arms.
I think seeing that on top gear was what finaly put me off wanting to go, Sabine Schmitz shouting and waving at other drivers for getting in her way. If I go on a circuit I want to be able to drive at my only ability, not what the person behind thinks I should be doing. (I took her driving at typical as she was happy to do that on TV)Antj said:
Yes it will change and yes it will have the complete bks make no sesne at all stupid elgislation appllied, but what else do you expect it's in Europe so sense never prevails.
Whoa, I was with you all the way with your post, until that bit.ks make no sesne at all stupid elgislation appllied, but what else do you expect it's in Europe so sense never prevails. When I was reading the OP, i was thinking "How very British". ie, mismanagement... local government... local wishes ignored... everything sacrificed for money... no money made... debt conjured from fresh air... change purely for changes sake... everyone pissed off... couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery... complete dog's dinner.
I thought it was only us who could cock things up that badly.
VTECMatt said:
I have been going for 10 years, there have always been accidents on TF and I'm not sure there is more now than when the was back in 2001, the standard of driving is much the same, some brilliant some dahn right awful, bikers much the same.
The weather, the atmosphere, the fun, the fear, insurance implications all the same, Trackdays are more readily available back then near to impossible, you can get a cold/hot drink that isnt vulger, accommodation has significantly improved. In all honesty i can't think of much that has got worse, ok on a really nice day the queues are mad but then I would expect it and it is more expensive but then my house is worth three times what its worth in 2001.
What I would like more than anything is a couple of companies who can offer comprehensive cover on TF, until such times I will mostly stick to Trackdays.
Ahhh yes, those great trips from 2001-2003. Remember them well Matt. The weather, the atmosphere, the fun, the fear, insurance implications all the same, Trackdays are more readily available back then near to impossible, you can get a cold/hot drink that isnt vulger, accommodation has significantly improved. In all honesty i can't think of much that has got worse, ok on a really nice day the queues are mad but then I would expect it and it is more expensive but then my house is worth three times what its worth in 2001.
What I would like more than anything is a couple of companies who can offer comprehensive cover on TF, until such times I will mostly stick to Trackdays.
I still love the place and for me it's so much more than driving the lap. I enjoy the atmosphere, standing at Brunnchen with a currywurst mit pommes and watching the passing traffic, the drive out and back, the cameraderie of like minded friends. I'm sure that much depends on who you go out there with as much as what the place is now like.
I'll still stay in Hersbroich, eat at the Pistenklause or Pinnochios, drink at the Lindenhof. I don't see any reason to frequent any of the new places, but that's just me.
[quote=havoc]I've been once, in '08. Went for a weekend, spectated the
- First lap some twit in a bright-green heavily modded Supra (UK reg and apparently 'well known') nearly takes me out by undertaking despite me indicating - life-saver did exactly that.
- Second lap was sublime - found a Scooby to follow who knew the track better - perfect!
- Third lap had 3 accidents which ruined the flow.
- Fourth lap was also pretty good...equal to a good B-road blat, certainly.
Now let me think first lap ever so travelling very slow because you don't know the way around, not looking in your mirrors because your concentrating on the road ahead, driving on the wrong side of the road because you are a we bit confused.
Yep been there
- First lap some twit in a bright-green heavily modded Supra (UK reg and apparently 'well known') nearly takes me out by undertaking despite me indicating - life-saver did exactly that.
- Second lap was sublime - found a Scooby to follow who knew the track better - perfect!
- Third lap had 3 accidents which ruined the flow.
- Fourth lap was also pretty good...equal to a good B-road blat, certainly.
Now let me think first lap ever so travelling very slow because you don't know the way around, not looking in your mirrors because your concentrating on the road ahead, driving on the wrong side of the road because you are a we bit confused.
Yep been there
I'm gutted about the way the place has changed. Been for the last 6 years. The ring suits having older, smaller pubs were drivers can discuss how they've flown around that day with gt3's, 360's etc have gone flying by.. All part of the experience.. This new theme park is honestly the biggest waste of time. I miss kart track that was there! Easily pleased I guess. I think the best thing they could do would be to rip the coaster down and sell it on, recoup some m
George Bolton said:
havoc said:
I've been once, in '08. Went for a weekend, spectated the
- First lap some twit in a bright-green heavily modded Supra (UK reg and apparently 'well known') nearly takes me out by undertaking despite me indicating - life-saver did exactly that.
- Second lap was sublime - found a Scooby to follow who knew the track better - perfect!
- Third lap had 3 accidents which ruined the flow.
- Fourth lap was also pretty good...equal to a good B-road blat, certainly.
Now let me think first lap ever so travelling very slow because you don't know the way around, not looking in your mirrors because your concentrating on the road ahead, driving on the wrong side of the road because you are a we bit confused.- First lap some twit in a bright-green heavily modded Supra (UK reg and apparently 'well known') nearly takes me out by undertaking despite me indicating - life-saver did exactly that.
- Second lap was sublime - found a Scooby to follow who knew the track better - perfect!
- Third lap had 3 accidents which ruined the flow.
- Fourth lap was also pretty good...equal to a good B-road blat, certainly.
Yep been there
Firstly i hope the ring stays open and remains a place for petrol heads to enjoy there cars and beautifull surroundings.
My experience of the ring, I have only been once, May 2010 and had an absolutely fantastic five days. Really enjoyed the drive out and got to the ring in time for an evening session which allowed me to get some quiet laps in before the weekend.
I wasn't trying to set a time- don't even know roughly what i lapped in, but just enjoyed driving a really challenging road. We stayed in a really nice village fifteen minutes drive away and the owners were amazing. The surrounding areas are beautifull and really hope to go back again.
I was lucky enough to get some passenger laps with a more experienced ring driver and this really helped with getting the most from the place. Met lots of petrol heads and every one we spoke to was friendly and knowlegdeable amd full of tips (am sure i forgot most of them). To me this is what the place is about.
As for the commercial side, i visited the ring werk and thought the museum was really good but the rest was just too much.
I will always choose a locals b&b/ hotel over the more main stream and hope that the ring is not a victim of its own success.
My experience of the ring, I have only been once, May 2010 and had an absolutely fantastic five days. Really enjoyed the drive out and got to the ring in time for an evening session which allowed me to get some quiet laps in before the weekend.
I wasn't trying to set a time- don't even know roughly what i lapped in, but just enjoyed driving a really challenging road. We stayed in a really nice village fifteen minutes drive away and the owners were amazing. The surrounding areas are beautifull and really hope to go back again.
I was lucky enough to get some passenger laps with a more experienced ring driver and this really helped with getting the most from the place. Met lots of petrol heads and every one we spoke to was friendly and knowlegdeable amd full of tips (am sure i forgot most of them). To me this is what the place is about.
As for the commercial side, i visited the ring werk and thought the museum was really good but the rest was just too much.
I will always choose a locals b&b/ hotel over the more main stream and hope that the ring is not a victim of its own success.
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