Re: Open Season: Jaguar XKR Convertible
Discussion
Black S2K said:
Because the kindly German farmer with the vintage tractor had offered to tow him the the nearest Jaguar dealer!
I know; they're better than that these days.
Actually, the car is lovely & the idea of something not stupidly harshly-sprung and boorishly crass and therefore actually useable has real appeal.
Is there space for a small labrador on the rear seat?
If the lab doesn't mind relatively enclosed spaces... I know; they're better than that these days.
Actually, the car is lovely & the idea of something not stupidly harshly-sprung and boorishly crass and therefore actually useable has real appeal.
Is there space for a small labrador on the rear seat?
Seriously, though, the XKR cab is one of the loveliest cars I've had the pleasure of in the past 12 months.Riggers said:
monthefish said:
The car is fairly lightweight (about 300kg less than an M6), has a good chassis set up (front engined, RWD being typically 'easy' to manage) and has good grip and traction. 'Supple' suspension can be an absolute boost to handling on many British roads, due to its ability to soak up the bumps and ensure the wheel is in contact with the ground as much as possible. (Did LJK Setright not famously say 'what is good for ride is good for handling'?)
I'm not saying it doesn't handle well! I'm saying it does handle well!(you don't need to answer that - you've already said its speciality is "fast country-road driving" and "you'll find that the XKR cab is actually as fine a car for a cosseting cruise as it is for high-speed belt down your favourite road.")
Riggers said:
monthefish said:
I respectfully suggest you have a passeneger ride in an XKR in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, and then come back and tell us that "you can't go all that fast in it".
I have. I presume Mike Cross counts as sufficiently able? The point I suppose I'm trying to make is that, on cold, damp roads - especially smaller ones with poor sight lines, the size of the XKR and the traction issues hamper progress. On wider, dryer roads, it's an entirely different matter...Have a read of this and you'll hopefully see what I mean: http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=99&...
riggers previously said:
Even if you do arrive at a corner too fast, the XKR 75 proves itself to be a forgiving tool, with deep reserves of grip and traction. Just like the ordinary XKR really
riggers today said:
The point I suppose I'm trying to make is that, on cold, damp roads - especially smaller ones with poor sight lines, the size of the XKR and the traction issues hamper progress.
The 'traction issues' being that it has 'deep reserves' perhaps?
monthefish said:
Which Porsche on which road?
Your statement is far too generalist to make any sense.
I shared exactly the same thoughts as I read the article. Not really a review; more a collection of unrelated comments that fail to convey anything about the car. I don't understand the comment "you won't be able to go all that fast in it". It is very big, yes and when driving on a narrow "average British country road" one tends to hold off the loud pedal as you will need to drive pretty tight on the nearside if you meet oncoming traffic. It therefore feels rather hairy but does that lead to the conclusion that you can't go fast in it? On a track it is a very different story. I regularly drive a 996 too and have no doubt the Jaguar would keep up in almost every situation, except where fear from the width of the thing causes one to slow down. GT3 also seems like a very strange comparison. Perhaps a Palmersport XKR against a GT3 but the GT3 is a track focused car. DB9 is a much closer comparison to the XKR (and suffers the same 'size' issue). Your statement is far too generalist to make any sense.
Odd, very odd.
My XKR Conv. on narrow, cold and wet roads with limited sight lines last Sunday.
See 4'00 to 8'30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDyZO1DsuQ
See 4'00 to 8'30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDyZO1DsuQ
monthefish said:
riggers previously said:
Even if you do arrive at a corner too fast, the XKR 75 proves itself to be a forgiving tool, with deep reserves of grip and traction. Just like the ordinary XKR really
riggers today said:
The point I suppose I'm trying to make is that, on cold, damp roads - especially smaller ones with poor sight lines, the size of the XKR and the traction issues hamper progress.
The 'traction issues' being that it has 'deep reserves' perhaps?Riggers said:
I appreciate it sounds like I'm tying myself in knots there, but the key words are cold, damp roads - every time I've mentioned the traction issues it has been in that context...
To be fair, you said:
Yes it's big, yes it's soft, and no, you won't be able to go all that fast in it, especially on damp roads....
...which implies that won't be able to go all that fast in it even on dry roads.Anyway, sorry for being so pedantic. I don't own an XKR and never have (so not a biased owner).
I just think it is a wonderful machine that perhaps doesn't get the sales success it deserves, and this is perhaps due to old Jaguar stereotypes (pipe/slippes/old man/soft suspension) being continually banded about.
monthefish said:
Riggers said:
I appreciate it sounds like I'm tying myself in knots there, but the key words are cold, damp roads - every time I've mentioned the traction issues it has been in that context...
To be fair, you said:
Yes it's big, yes it's soft, and no, you won't be able to go all that fast in it, especially on damp roads....
...which implies that won't be able to go all that fast in it even on dry roads.Anyway, sorry for being so pedantic. I don't own an XKR and never have (so not a biased owner).
I just think it is a wonderful machine that perhaps doesn't get the sales success it deserves, and this is perhaps due to old Jaguar stereotypes (pipe/slippes/old man/soft suspension) being continually banded about.
.You're right it is a wonderful machine - and those old stereotypes are massively unjustified - and unjustifiable these days, so I'd hate to think I'd done anything to perpetuate them.
Supple is the perfect word for describing the XKR. I have a 996 C2 and was able to compare the two back to back on my favourite roads. The Jag was quicker, no question, its only weakness being traction but it would handle bumps far better than the Porsche (which has sports suspension so is pretty uncompromising).
It was its ability to do the Jekyll and Hide act that made it such a complete car for me. I also wonder if Lotus had a part in the suspension development, I have driven an Evora and it has that same uncanny level of body control and ability to soak up bumps that my Porsche really lacks.
As someone said above, Jag deserve to sell bucketloads of these.
It was its ability to do the Jekyll and Hide act that made it such a complete car for me. I also wonder if Lotus had a part in the suspension development, I have driven an Evora and it has that same uncanny level of body control and ability to soak up bumps that my Porsche really lacks.
As someone said above, Jag deserve to sell bucketloads of these.
I've done a fair few miles in a 5.0 XKR Coupe. All fun miles too.
They're big and very very powerful.
The engine is like nothing ever seen before in a Jaguar, the performance figures tell you that, and that should be remembered if you've ever driven one of the 4.0/4.2 XKR's or XJR's.
It is a seriously bloody quick bit of kit. A different league to a Carrera.
Coupled with an amazing 'box, driving fast on country lanes is a bloody hoot. I drive everywhere with the Windows down to hear THAT noise! Blipping on down shifts and flooring it from 4k upwards after a bend sends a tingle down your spine.
I think it's a bit stiff for a GT, and a bit soft to be considered a sports car. If you want something in between, it's perfect. (i.e it's a better GT than a GT3, but not as good a GT as a DB9.)
I also believe that because of the suspensions compliance they don't feel as fast as they are. i noted this point when my 500 mile/1 week old example got enough air off a crest to land and flatten the exhaust. (£1k backbox replacement if you were wondering). At the time it didn't feel like i was going that fast and i wasn't expecting to get airbourne obviously. What was astounding, was that there was no loud bang on landing! Very Jaguar.
I agree with the previous poster who said there is NOTHING about this car i'd change. Just awesome.
They're big and very very powerful.
The engine is like nothing ever seen before in a Jaguar, the performance figures tell you that, and that should be remembered if you've ever driven one of the 4.0/4.2 XKR's or XJR's.
It is a seriously bloody quick bit of kit. A different league to a Carrera.
Coupled with an amazing 'box, driving fast on country lanes is a bloody hoot. I drive everywhere with the Windows down to hear THAT noise! Blipping on down shifts and flooring it from 4k upwards after a bend sends a tingle down your spine.
I think it's a bit stiff for a GT, and a bit soft to be considered a sports car. If you want something in between, it's perfect. (i.e it's a better GT than a GT3, but not as good a GT as a DB9.)
I also believe that because of the suspensions compliance they don't feel as fast as they are. i noted this point when my 500 mile/1 week old example got enough air off a crest to land and flatten the exhaust. (£1k backbox replacement if you were wondering). At the time it didn't feel like i was going that fast and i wasn't expecting to get airbourne obviously. What was astounding, was that there was no loud bang on landing! Very Jaguar.
I agree with the previous poster who said there is NOTHING about this car i'd change. Just awesome.
stinkysteve said:
Coupled with an amazing 'box, driving fast on country lanes is a bloody hoot. I drive everywhere with the Windows down to hear THAT noise! Blipping on down shifts and flooring it from 4k upwards after a bend sends a tingle down your spine.
Yep, forgot to mention one of my favourite features - when the exhaust is warmed up and you're pressing on, there's a lovely crackle on downshifts, never got bored of that!I was also a bit bemused by parts of the review but hey - it's just opinion.
I own and drive a 2010 XKR and I find it the perfect balance of speed, comfort and luxury for those who favour the GT side of sporty GT. Having said that it's anything but slow. What it loses on takeoff in the wet , it more than makes up for on the run ....it's overtaking ability is on par or better than a DBS.
Talking of Astons it's certainly not a competitor to the Vantage. Although I'd back my XKR in a straight line against a Vantage they're totally different cars and the Aston to compare with is surely a DB9 and DBS. That's also relevant in terms of size. Anyone who thinks the XKR is too big , also thinks a DB9 or DBS is too big. All of them feel smaller than a Granturismo S (another car I considered) and a lot lighter due to the aluminium (and some carbon fibre for DBS) construction.
In the end if you think a XKR/DB9 is too big you're in the wrong segment and should be looking at a 911 or Vantage and if you "can't go all that fast" in it you're either a Veyron owner or not trying. If you want a sporty, fast GT then they don't get much better than the XKR and I chose one over a DBS and Maser GTS.
Cheers.
I own and drive a 2010 XKR and I find it the perfect balance of speed, comfort and luxury for those who favour the GT side of sporty GT. Having said that it's anything but slow. What it loses on takeoff in the wet , it more than makes up for on the run ....it's overtaking ability is on par or better than a DBS.
Talking of Astons it's certainly not a competitor to the Vantage. Although I'd back my XKR in a straight line against a Vantage they're totally different cars and the Aston to compare with is surely a DB9 and DBS. That's also relevant in terms of size. Anyone who thinks the XKR is too big , also thinks a DB9 or DBS is too big. All of them feel smaller than a Granturismo S (another car I considered) and a lot lighter due to the aluminium (and some carbon fibre for DBS) construction.
In the end if you think a XKR/DB9 is too big you're in the wrong segment and should be looking at a 911 or Vantage and if you "can't go all that fast" in it you're either a Veyron owner or not trying. If you want a sporty, fast GT then they don't get much better than the XKR and I chose one over a DBS and Maser GTS.
Cheers.
Edited by bl5150 on Friday 4th February 13:13
I found it very easy to lose traction, even with thought given before accelerating out of corners/ junctions etc.
Now I realise that powerful rwd cars do this as I've driven a few, but as I only spent a day with the car, can owners tell me if this is something you get used to? I found that I was probably driving slower as a result (it was damp and cold to be fair)
Now I realise that powerful rwd cars do this as I've driven a few, but as I only spent a day with the car, can owners tell me if this is something you get used to? I found that I was probably driving slower as a result (it was damp and cold to be fair)
Garlick said:
...tell me if this is something you get used to? I found that I was probably driving slower as a result (it was damp and cold to be fair)
I often found it an issue exiting wet junctions to be honest, would never get away from you because the traction control would keep things in check.I have upgraded the supercharger pulley on mine, so i get the supercharger spinning up much earlier which makes it extremely quick in the 1500-3000 rev range compared to a standard version..... but i'm in the mk1 XKR
Ive also upgraded the exhaust so its louder then the mk2 version (mk1 xkr was always too quiet in standard trim)
In coupe trim they have more rear space than a 911 too, i chose mine over a 996 C2 as the porsche had no soul in comparison, nothing to generate emotion
Ive also upgraded the exhaust so its louder then the mk2 version (mk1 xkr was always too quiet in standard trim)
In coupe trim they have more rear space than a 911 too, i chose mine over a 996 C2 as the porsche had no soul in comparison, nothing to generate emotion
I'm not entirely sure why we're comparing any of the Jaguar XK range to a 911? An Aston Martin DB9, BMW M6 or even the Maserati Gran Turismo would be a more helpful comparison. I know it's easy to use the Porsche 911 as a yard stick for sports cars, but the Jag and the above cars aren't out and out sports cars, they're grand tourers, with lots of horsepower.
If you want to compare the performance of the 911GT3 with the XKR cab, it's only fair that you also mention the fact that the 911GT3 has no boot, no back seats (although the ones in the jag are useless for anyone over the age of twelve) and also no convertible roof.
Comparing the XKR, which I used to own, to a more logical competitor, say the BMW M6, which I now own as my daily drive, the Jag's a smoother, softer more comfortable place to be, and the interior is a little less vulgar than the M6's. I also think the jag is better looking than the unimaginatively styled M6, although that's a matter of taste, and having any.
In terms of the driving experience, on a day to day basis the Jag's gearbox is far better than the M6's SMG, which is impossible to park with and in automatic mode near useless. However, on a sweeping B road when the mood takes you the BMW delivers miles more excitement. Compared to the Jags V8, even with that amazing supercharger whine the BMW's V10 sounds epic, and revs to 8000rpm, with the jag interfering when you get near 6000. When you put the jag into a corner enthusiastically it feels much to soft, and doesn't give you any confidence in the cars ability, whereas the M6 handles superbly, for a car of it's weight, and then settles down to a great day to dayer again when you want it to.
The reason I sold my XKR and bought an M6, is because the Jag was too soft through the windy stuff and the steering was to detached. Having owned both, I'd say the Jag does the day to day stuff better than the BMW, but the BMW does the quick stuff a lot better than the Jag.
I wouldn't expect either car to perform like a 911, and I wouldn't expect a 911 to be as practical as either. The M6 is good, but the XKR remains for me, the reason I'll probably never buy an Aston, and with the roof down, it's got to be one of the best all rounder cabs I've ever driven.
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