Child Seat Advice

[havoc]

NiceCupOfTea said:

Hi folks,

Just started a new thread because I couldn't find this one! I'll cut and paste what I wrote:

In a different thread I said:

Hi all,

Just had a bit of a search as there was a massive child seat thread a few years back with some guy who tests them contributing. Can't find it of course!

Just moved our daughter up from a group 1 seat (Maxi Cosi Tobi) to a group 2/3 Maxi Cosi Rodi AirProtect as she was too tall (4 years old).

I've got a non ISOFIX one for my e36 cab.

Fits OK, but the head restraint gets in the way and forces the top of the seat forwards. I put the head restraint as high as possible and it just fits under it, but due to my daughter's height the seat needs to be on a taller setting, so the head restraint still gets in the way.

I have a related but slightly different problem - looking at Group 2/3 seats but my rear headrests are inmoulded so I can't remove them. They curve-forwards from the rake of the seatback slightly so very few, if any, child seats will fit snug against the seat-back.

I did read somewhere that ISOFIX seats (thankfully it has lugs hidden in the bite-line) don't NEED to sit snug to the seat-back, as they're effectively locked in place by the ISOFIX mechanism, but:-
- Is that true?
- Is that safe?

[boobles]

havoc said:

NiceCupOfTea said:

Hi folks,

Just started a new thread because I couldn't find this one! I'll cut and paste what I wrote:

In a different thread I said:

Hi all,

Just had a bit of a search as there was a massive child seat thread a few years back with some guy who tests them contributing. Can't find it of course!

Just moved our daughter up from a group 1 seat (Maxi Cosi Tobi) to a group 2/3 Maxi Cosi Rodi AirProtect as she was too tall (4 years old).

I've got a non ISOFIX one for my e36 cab.

Fits OK, but the head restraint gets in the way and forces the top of the seat forwards. I put the head restraint as high as possible and it just fits under it, but due to my daughter's height the seat needs to be on a taller setting, so the head restraint still gets in the way.

I have a related but slightly different problem - looking at Group 2/3 seats but my rear headrests are inmoulded so I can't remove them. They curve-forwards from the rake of the seatback slightly so very few, if any, child seats will fit snug against the seat-back.

I did read somewhere that ISOFIX seats (thankfully it has lugs hidden in the bite-line) don't NEED to sit snug to the seat-back, as they're effectively locked in place by the ISOFIX mechanism, but:-
- Is that true?
- Is that safe?

Yes true & safe. Some Isofix seats will have a gap between the child seat & car seat.

[havoc]

Thank a random deity for that...plan B involved selling the car!

Last question - how much safer do the two add-ons to the Britax Kidfix II make it:-
- the shoulder-belt shroud / load-spreader?
- the crotch-hook for locating the lap-belt properly.

It looks like a very good seat but is ~£40 more than the competition...and feels a little less comfy than e.g. the Monza Nova II.

[Craikeybaby]

My lad is now outgrowing his group 0 seat, so want to get another seat, or two sorted.

I had been planning to get a Recaro Young Sport Hero, but when I went to try it in my car it was pointed out that as it doesn't recline it may not be ideal for a < 1 year old. I can see the logic in that, but may still get one as a spare seat for shorter journeys.

What should I be looking for in a group 1 seat? There is one which uses the same isofix base as our group 0 seat, but not really sure why a base is needed - won't a group 1 seat stay in the car?

Whilst I was being told that the Recaro seat wasn't suitable for my son, I was also told that a child seat should not go in the front passenger seat, if the airbag cannot be de-activated. I was under the impression that it was only rear facing seats that would be a problem. I was really looking forward to taking my lad out in my MR2.

[havoc]

I'll let Boobles give a detailed, professional answer, but:-

- A front-facing seat is fine in the passenger seat as long as:-
- The airbag can be turned off; or
- There's a good distance between the child seat and the airbag, i.e. the airbag deployment can't reach the child.
(I've had J in the NSX many times - plenty of space between him and the airbag so no risk)

- Advice now is to keep kids in a rear-facer for as long as possible (J was in a rear-facer until >18mths old). But rear-facing Gp-1's are space-intensive and more costly, so it depends on the car it's going in and whether you'll need to swap it out regularly.

- Having a seat that reclines is definitely useful for long journeys - an upright seat may cause a sleeping child to 'loll' forwards/sideways more than a reclined seat would.

- We ditched the ISOFIX base when we went to a Group-1, as most of them come with their own ISOFIX or belt in directly.

- If it's going in a car with sculpted/bucket seats, check the size of the child-seat base (& back, potentially), as we found some didn't sit properly in the Civic's bolstered rear seats.




For reference, we used a Britax Max-Fix II as the early Gp-1 seat - it was large and ££ but it was very highly rated and easy to use - there are more options on the market now (e.g. Dual-Fix, Multi-Tech...). Now we're moving on from a pair of Maxi-Cosi Priori belt-fit seats, which have been very stable/secure (when fitted properly), very transferrable, and clearly comfortable for J.

[boobles]

Your answer is fine Havoc, no need to add anything.


Although in response to the Britax seat being £40 more expensive I shall just say that they are the only child seat manufacturer with their very own crash center with 2 test sleds & conduct approx 1500 crash tests per year. A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.
This does not mean that their competitors seats are "unsafe" so please don't take it that way.

[Craikeybaby]

Thanks guys!

The cars are BMW 1 series, MR2 Roadster and Fiat 500. The passenger seat has to be fully forward with the group 0 seat behind it in the BMW, no doubt a rear facing group 1 seat would fit.

I can't wait to get my lad out on the MR2 this summer, apparently I loved going out in my Dad's TR6 when I was his age!

[havoc]

boobles said:

A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.

[Craikeybaby]

havoc said:

boobles said:

A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.

Britax have been bumped to the top of my list of brands to consider!

[boobles]

Craikeybaby said:

havoc said:

boobles said:

A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.

Britax have been bumped to the top of my list of brands to consider!

[DoubleSix]

Besafe are the only company to get a maximum score in the Folksam Test.

https://www.folksam.se/media/Rapport_Bilbarnstolar...

[gibbo37]

boobles said:

Your answer is fine Havoc, no need to add anything.


Although in response to the Britax seat being £40 more expensive I shall just say that they are the only child seat manufacturer with their very own crash center with 2 test sleds & conduct approx 1500 crash tests per year. A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.
This does not mean that their competitors seats are "unsafe" so please don't take it that way.

I think you will find a lot of other car seat manufacturers also have their own crash test facilities. I know for a fact that Maxi-Cosi have their own test facilities in France, perhaps you meant Britax were the only ones to have test facilities in the UK?

[boobles]

gibbo37 said:

boobles said:

Your answer is fine Havoc, no need to add anything.


Although in response to the Britax seat being £40 more expensive I shall just say that they are the only child seat manufacturer with their very own crash center with 2 test sleds & conduct approx 1500 crash tests per year. A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.
This does not mean that their competitors seats are "unsafe" so please don't take it that way.

I think you will find a lot of other car seat manufacturers also have their own crash test facilities. I know for a fact that Maxi-Cosi have their own test facilities in France, perhaps you meant Britax were the only ones to have test facilities in the UK?

Sorry, yes I meant here in the UK.

As for the report above - If 5 different test facilities anywhere in the world conducted the same tests on the same child seats, every lab would produce different results. We see this all the time where one product might pass a test here in the UK but could fail in lets say Germany. Different labs do produce different results than one another.

[DoubleSix]

boobles said:

gibbo37 said:

boobles said:

Your answer is fine Havoc, no need to add anything.


Although in response to the Britax seat being £40 more expensive I shall just say that they are the only child seat manufacturer with their very own crash center with 2 test sleds & conduct approx 1500 crash tests per year. A lot of "extra" time effort & money goes into making sure Britax products are the safest they can possibly be.
This does not mean that their competitors seats are "unsafe" so please don't take it that way.

I think you will find a lot of other car seat manufacturers also have their own crash test facilities. I know for a fact that Maxi-Cosi have their own test facilities in France, perhaps you meant Britax were the only ones to have test facilities in the UK?

Sorry, yes I meant here in the UK.

As for the report above - If 5 different test facilities anywhere in the world conducted the same tests on the same child seats, every lab would produce different results. We see this all the time where one product might pass a test here in the UK but could fail in lets say Germany. Different labs do produce different results than one another.

Quite - but I think I trust the Swedes uncompromising attitude to safety!

I've got a Britax and a BeSafe; one feels solid to the point of being over engineered the other feels made to a price.

[havoc]

DoubleSix said:

Besafe are the only company to get a maximum score in the Folksam Test.

https://www.folksam.se/media/Rapport_Bilbarnstolar...

I've read that and it sounds all very laudable but not necessarily very real-world.

- They're marking seats down for being flexible forward/rearward facing, as "owners may move them to forward facing too early"! Really?!? In the real world that's what is known as (a) a good thing; and (b) trusting your customers to be adults.
- They're marking seats down for not providing enough legroom to allow a 4y.o. to be rearward facing...completely ignoring the fact that to fit that size of seat in a typical hatchback would be to make the front passenger seat unusable. So a 4* seat may not actually fit in anything smaller than a minibus... :hyperbole alert:
- They're marking seats down for something to do with mounting against a dashboard...but I couldn't see in the text what the context was (i.e. whether that was good or bad). Not actually sure why you'd do that, to be honest...
- They're marking seats down for not having high-enough head-support to accomodate a child at 4y.o., which I sort of get, but in reality most of these seats would be replaced before that age, and the two I recognise on there certainly DO have enough head-protection height - unless you've got a tall Scandanavian 4y.o., I guess...


So if you have the money and space to buy and run a big Volvo, then they've got some good advice. But if you've got a lowly Golf, or heaven help you a little Fiesta / Fiat 500, then their position doesn't really help you.

More seriously, if you're going to provide advice like that, you have to contextualise it to what your audience are realistically capable of, not setting out such high ideals that everyone feels like bad parents because they can't afford to comply with every last pronouncement.

[DoubleSix]

We've managed extended rear facing in our BMW 1 Series and Audi A4 - neither are big cars!

My 4 year old still travels rear facing in both.

The Folksam Test is definitely pushing ERF big time I agree, but that's no bad thing.

If I were in the market for child seats now I would only buy a seat that passed the PLUS Test (another Scandi standard) and if that meant less leg room for me and the wife or passing up a few takeaways to scrape the extra £££ together then so be it.

It's not about being a "bad parent", but SOME parents seem to have odd priorities if I dare say so. I'll happily adopt a rally drivers seat position (upright back, closer to wheel) if it improves my childs safety by a factor of 5!

Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 16th March 16:17

[havoc]

DoubleSix said:

...and if that meant less leg room for me and the wife or passing up a few takeaways to scrape the extra £££ together then so be it.

It's not about being a "bad parent", but SOME parents seem to have odd priorities if I dare say so. I'll happily adopt a rally drivers seat position (upright back, closer to wheel) if it improves my childs safety by a factor of 5!

Second point first - you're compromising YOUR safety there. And arguably far more so than the benefit you give to your child by buying the all-star seat vs another reputable rear-facer that scores very highly in the UK but less-so in that Swedish testing. Some may perceive that as an odd priority, if you're going to start throwing stones and taking a position of superiority*

Less legroom - it's not as simple as just that - the Britax rear facer we had (Max-Fix II, I think, which got a middling rating there) meant that I couldn't ride in the passenger seat of Becs' Mk5 Golf (not a small car, and probably slightly larger inside than the 1-series) for more than a short journey, it was so cramped, so if we went out as a family in her car I had to drive. It would also make it impossible for a family with two under-5s to have a Golf-sized car...

Fewer takeaways...again, you (like many on here) are probably reasonably well off, by national averages. There are a LOT of parents out there who are begging, borrowing or buying 2nd hand to afford all of the things that the patronising middle classes say they have to have now. I'm not saying car seats aren't important, but the additional cost/compromises of a 4* seat from a Swedish test vs e.g. a good MaxiCosi are substantial for many people right now.

...which is sort of my point. Don't scare people into spending £££ on wrapping their kids in 20 layers of cotton wool when a more balanced view would mean spending ££ on 10 layers would be 95%/98% as good.




* Which is what your sentence came across as, whether you meant it to or not.

[PostHeads123]

Total newbie on child seats and have no idea at all, I have a 11 month old weighs in around 18.5lb now and still in his baby car seat, should I be looking to upgrade now to a forward facing one ?

[DoubleSix]

No

[PostHeads123]

Ok he currently in a Silver Cross 'Infant carrier' says its group O+ birth to 12 months up to 29lbs, baby is pretty tall so his legs hanging over the edge. I don't understand at what point you decide to go from Infant Carrier to a seat ?

thanks