Child Seat Advice

[DoubleSix]

havoc said:

Second point first - you're compromising YOUR safety there. And arguably far more so than the benefit you give to your child by buying the all-star seat vs another reputable rear-facer that scores very highly in the UK but less-so in that Swedish testing. Some may perceive that as an odd priority, if you're going to start throwing stones and taking a position of superiority*

A little credit please if you will. I'm here as a 'car person' so an upright position does not equate to chewing the steering wheel.

havoc said:

Less legroom - it's not as simple as just that - the Britax rear facer we had (Max-Fix II, I think, which got a middling rating there) meant that I couldn't ride in the passenger seat of Becs' Mk5 Golf (not a small car, and probably slightly larger inside than the 1-series) for more than a short journey, it was so cramped, so if we went out as a family in her car I had to drive. It would also make it impossible for a family with two under-5s to have a Golf-sized car...

To be blunt that just sounds like the wrong choice of seat for the car or perhaps the wrong car for a small family. Either way "impossible" just doesn't come into it, that's hyperbole.

havoc said:

Fewer takeaways...again, you (like many on here) are probably reasonably well off, by national averages. There are a LOT of parents out there who are begging, borrowing or buying 2nd hand to afford all of the things that the patronising middle classes say they have to have now. I'm not saying car seats aren't important, but the additional cost/compromises of a 4* seat from a Swedish test vs e.g. a good MaxiCosi are substantial for many people right now.

...which is sort of my point. Don't scare people into spending £££ on wrapping their kids in 20 layers of cotton wool when a more balanced view would mean spending ££ on 10 layers would be 95%/98% as good.

My takeaways comment is anecdotal but more often than not in my experience those that plead poverty on these matters are still taking an annual holiday, smoking 20 fags a day or otherwise enjoying a degree of discretionary spend - again it's about priorities. I agree that the difference in a top seat to a mid-tier may be marginal but no-one would argue that the benefits of ERF are anything but huge and yet I still hear people saying things like "little johnny likes looking forward so that's not an option" or "it won't fit in our car" or "he whines if he can't sit forward" etc

[Craikeybaby]

DoubleSix said:

We've managed extended rear facing in our BMW 1 Series and Audi A4 - neither are big cars!

My 4 year old still travels rear facing in both.

The Folksam Test is definitely pushing ERF big time I agree, but that's no bad thing.

If I were in the market for child seats now I would only buy a seat that passed the PLUS Test (another Scandi standard) and if that meant less leg room for me and the wife or passing up a few takeaways to scrape the extra £££ together then so be it.

It's not about being a "bad parent", but SOME parents seem to have odd priorities if I dare say so. I'll happily adopt a rally drivers seat position (upright back, closer to wheel) if it improves my childs safety by a factor of 5!

Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 16th March 16:17

I'd like to see a photo of the seat position in your 1 Series with the rear facing child seat behind. In order to get out infant carrier in our 1 Series the front seat has to be fully forwards and is not ideal for the passenger. I imagine this would be worse with a rear facing seat for a toddler.

PostHeads123 said:

Ok he currently in a Silver Cross 'Infant carrier' says its group O+ birth to 12 months up to 29lbs, baby is pretty tall so his legs hanging over the edge. I don't understand at what point you decide to go from Infant Carrier to a seat ?

thanks

Now would be the right tome to be looking at the next seat up (group 1), be that rear or forward facing.

[havoc]

DoubleSix said:

A little credit please if you will. I'm here as a 'car person' so an upright position does not equate to chewing the steering wheel.

DoubleSix said:

havoc said:

It would also make it impossible for a family with two under-5s to have a Golf-sized car...

To be blunt that just sounds like the wrong choice of seat for the car or perhaps the wrong car for a small family. Either way "impossible" just doesn't come into it, that's hyperbole.

Two ERF Gp-1 seats won't go into the back of a modern hatchback and permit any normal-sized driver to have a sensible/safe driving position. That's all I'm saying...
Edit: As is Cb above...
(so if you have twins, as a 'Mum' (OK, daily carer for the kids) do you then get a Mondeo-size saloon or full-size people carrier just to get 2x ERF seats in the back, or do find a compromise?)

DoubleSix said:

My takeaways comment is anecdotal but more often than not in my experience those that plead poverty on these matters are still taking an annual holiday, smoking 20 fags a day or otherwise enjoying a degree of discretionary spend - again it's about priorities. I agree that the difference in a top seat to a mid-tier may be marginal but no-one would argue that the benefits of ERF are anything but huge and yet I still hear people saying things like "little johnny likes looking forward so that's not an option" or "it won't fit in our car" or "he whines if he can't sit forward" etc

In some cases, yes...but that's the Daily Mail viewpoint, if I can call it such. And it hides a lot of people genuinely struggling...

And the benefits are only there IF you're involved in a serious accident.

I wouldn't gamble with my son's safety, BUT I also wouldn't seriously compromise our overall life just to effect a marginal increase in his safety. e.g. I'm driving a 2008 Honda (i.e. modern construction/crumple-zones, roll-over protection) with no active safety kit other than 2 airbags and ABS, rather than a very-modern car with 10 airbags, 20 acronyms and all the joy sucked out of it. I also take J out in the car on my profile, and he loves it. Conversely a good friend, when they had kids, sold his classic car as "it was unsafe, and I need to think of my daughter", and he then became very focused on his next car having the best safety rating and the most airbags.

[DoubleSix]

So now it's twins to validate your point!

C'mon dude...

I can't see anything wrong with your friends attitude, it's resembles my own tbf. Ultimately if the parents are uncompromising and won't give up the two seater fun car or can't hack the lack of legroom or blah blah blah then the compromise is made elsewhere - that's just the reality of it so no point pretending it isn't so.

[boobles]

PostHeads123 said:

Ok he currently in a Silver Cross 'Infant carrier' says its group O+ birth to 12 months up to 29lbs, baby is pretty tall so his legs hanging over the edge. I don't understand at what point you decide to go from Infant Carrier to a seat ?

thanks

Age is just a guidance really but weight is the important factor. Typically from 9kg is when you should think about buying a forward facing child seat. The other important factor is, can your child support the weight of his/her neck & sit up & support itself? very important otherwise their neck muscles have not developed enough to be sitting in a forward facing child seat.

[Craikeybaby]

DoubleSix said:

So now it's twins to validate your point!

C'mon dude...

I can't see anything wrong with your friends attitude, it's resembles my own tbf. Ultimately if the parents are uncompromising and won't give up the two seater fun car or can't hack the lack of legroom or blah blah blah then the compromise is made elsewhere - that's just the reality of it so no point pretending it isn't so.

Seriously, I would like to see how a group 1 rear facing seat fits in your BMW, as had ruled out rear facing based on lack of space.

[DoubleSix]

Craikeybaby said:

DoubleSix said:

So now it's twins to validate your point!

C'mon dude...

I can't see anything wrong with your friends attitude, it's resembles my own tbf. Ultimately if the parents are uncompromising and won't give up the two seater fun car or can't hack the lack of legroom or blah blah blah then the compromise is made elsewhere - that's just the reality of it so no point pretending it isn't so.

Seriously, I would like to see how a group 1 rear facing seat fits in your BMW, as had ruled out rear facing based on lack of space.

No probs, i have the photos from the last time this came up and someone called creme anglais

I'm just having issues with Photobucket- anyone suggest another picture host?

[havoc]

DoubleSix said:

So now it's twins to validate your point!

C'mon dude...

I can't see anything wrong with your friends attitude, it's resembles my own tbf. Ultimately if the parents are uncompromising and won't give up the two seater fun car or can't hack the lack of legroom or blah blah blah then the compromise is made elsewhere - that's just the reality of it so no point pretending it isn't so.

No - it's not - stop misreading what I'm saying.


Actually...y'know what - do what you like, but don't be so parochial as to preach to others that they're "not doing enough" to keep their kids safe.

[pembo]

Craikeybaby said:

Seriously, I would like to see how a group 1 rear facing seat fits in your BMW, as had ruled out rear facing based on lack of space.

There's loads of space in there, we had a 2005 1-series as our only car and managed fine with a Recaro Young Profi Plus in an Isofix base. Behind the passenger seat it left plenty of space for both the OH (5'10") and I (6') to sit there for 100 mile plus trips.

That was us scaling up for a child, prior to that we had a Z4 and a Mini.

After that we went for forward facing because it's easier to keep an eye on him and he liked looking out.

[DoubleSix]

Ah, that was always going to come wasn't it, tell me where I've told anyone else what to do??

My point was never that, only that the long list of excuses that people come up with to justify their choices is disingenuous - I don't care what you do with your kids any more than you do about mine - but people are full of st.

If I let my daughter go horse riding or skiing it's a risk, a compromise if you will, that the experience is worth that risk - a conscious decision on my behalf.

I don't make up a load of flannel to justify it.

[sjg]

The Recaro Zero.1 (isize) seems to take up less room than the Privia (0+) - can have the seat in front slightly further back. I think the newborn seat is more reclined so takes up more horizontal space.

[boobles]

Guys, can we please keep this as polite as possible! This thread was created to give advice & support & has done very well in providing that. Please don't continue making this a "personal" argument otherwise we run the risk of having it closed down & that would be a shame.

[DoubleSix]

In every post I've very consciously kept my wording in reference to the general population of parents, but that has been lost on my fellow PHer Mr Havoc who thinks I'm having a pop at him.

Shame because it's an interesting topic imo.

[Craikeybaby]

DoubleSix said:

Craikeybaby said:

DoubleSix said:

So now it's twins to validate your point!

C'mon dude...

I can't see anything wrong with your friends attitude, it's resembles my own tbf. Ultimately if the parents are uncompromising and won't give up the two seater fun car or can't hack the lack of legroom or blah blah blah then the compromise is made elsewhere - that's just the reality of it so no point pretending it isn't so.

Seriously, I would like to see how a group 1 rear facing seat fits in your BMW, as had ruled out rear facing based on lack of space.

No probs, i have the photos from the last time this came up and someone called creme anglais

I'm just having issues with Photobucket- anyone suggest another picture host?

I use Flickr, but others seem to get on well with thumbsnap.

[Craikeybaby]

pembo said:

Craikeybaby said:

Seriously, I would like to see how a group 1 rear facing seat fits in your BMW, as had ruled out rear facing based on lack of space.

There's loads of space in there, we had a 2005 1-series as our only car and managed fine with a Recaro Young Profi Plus in an Isofix base. Behind the passenger seat it left plenty of space for both the OH (5'10") and I (6') to sit there for 100 mile plus trips.

That was us scaling up for a child, prior to that we had a Z4 and a Mini.

After that we went for forward facing because it's easier to keep an eye on him and he liked looking out.

I wonder if the seat/base has anything to do with it? As our Maxi Cosi Cabriofix needs the passenger seat in an uncomfortable position. Neither of us are particularly tall, and both have short legs. 1 series is also scaling up for us, we have/had MR2 Roadster and Fiat 500 before.

[sjj84]

Any thoughts on the Joie spin 360? Seems to be reasonably priced for a seat that turns for easy access.

[DoubleSix]

Craikeybaby said:

I use Flickr, but others seem to get on well with thumbsnap.

Here you go CB, took some fresh ones. Our eldest has just turned 4 so this set up is coming to the end of it's viability but shows ERF is perfectly viable in a small car with a bit of effort/prior consideration to seat choice etc

Edited by DoubleSix on Saturday 18th March 10:06

[Craikeybaby]

Thanks! That seat position doesn't look too different to with out group 0 seat.

We are heading out group 1 seat shopping this afternoon.

[DoubleSix]

[boobles]

The only thing that concern's me about the first photo is is just how much higher your daughters head is above the top of the child seat. I am hoping this is purely the angle of the photo and not realistic?