Child Seat Advice

[boobles]

joewilliams said:

boobles said:

How do you mean "extended rear facing seats" ?

Do you mean keeping children rear facing for longer?

Stuff like this: http://www.carseat.se/

Designed for keeping children rear-facing for as long as possible.

It may well be safer, but I can't find any proper statistics.

I think the most important rule is, don't put children forward facing before they are ready.
Far to many parents can't wait until they put their children forward facing & this can be dangerous if involved in a collision. I know this hasn't really answered your question but I won't get into a debate as to which is safer, rear facing or forward facing.

[swamp]

Does anyone know about using a car seat on an aircraft?

One airline says:

Parents can use their own baby car seat provided it has been certified by the government of manufacturer's country and provided the infant is flying on a child's fare ticket.

But it seems the UK Government (ie Civil Aviation Authority) don't/won't certify car seats for aircraft...

[boobles]

swamp said:

Does anyone know about using a car seat on an aircraft?

One airline says:

Parents can use their own baby car seat provided it has been certified by the government of manufacturer's country and provided the infant is flying on a child's fare ticket.

But it seems the UK Government (ie Civil Aviation Authority) don't/won't certify car seats for aircraft...

It really is down to the individual airline. Some say yes, others say no. It's better to check with who ever you are flying with to be sure.

[Dino D]

boobles said:

It really is down to the individual airline. Some say yes, others say no. It's better to check with who ever you are flying with to be sure.

I am also looking at that and just checked with Emirates - they have a section on there site about it that says:
Parents or guardians may use infant car seats at any stage of the flight. Airport Services will approve the infant car seat at check-in for use onboard. Cabin crew will assist parents with the fitting of the car seat to the passenger seat. The car seat must be the forward facing type only and one that can be secured to the seat by the use of the lap seatbelt, and not a shoulder harness (2-point seatbelt) as per car vehicles
In regards to European made seats they say:
Seats meeting European safety standards requirements of ECE regulation 44, -03, or later series of amendments.
http://www.emirates.com/english/plan_book/essentia...

I have a Maxi Cosi Cabrio fix and in the manual it states it meets the ECE regulation referred to above but it is rear facing so no good apparently - strange they want forward facing only...

Boobles - can you even buy a forward facing infant seat in UK?

Edited by Dino D on Wednesday 16th February 16:03

[jcelee]

Hi Boobles,

Going back to Caterhams, is it possible to safely secure a child seat for a 3yr old using a 4 point harness rather than an inertia reel belt? At what stage can you legally/safely use a booster cushion? I could refit the inertia reel belt but would still need to find a seat that fits on top of a fixed back glassfibre Tillet seat. Any suggestions greatfully received!

[boobles]

Dino D said:

boobles said:

It really is down to the individual airline. Some say yes, others say no. It's better to check with who ever you are flying with to be sure.

I am also looking at that and just checked with Emirates - they have a section on there site about it that says:
Parents or guardians may use infant car seats at any stage of the flight. Airport Services will approve the infant car seat at check-in for use onboard. Cabin crew will assist parents with the fitting of the car seat to the passenger seat. The car seat must be the forward facing type only and one that can be secured to the seat by the use of the lap seatbelt, and not a shoulder harness (2-point seatbelt) as per car vehicles
In regards to European made seats they say:
Seats meeting European safety standards requirements of ECE regulation 44, -03, or later series of amendments.
http://www.emirates.com/english/plan_book/essentia...

I have a Maxi Cosi Cabrio fix and in the manual it states it meets the ECE regulation referred to above but it is rear facing so no good apparently - strange they want forward facing only...

Boobles - can you even buy a forward facing infant seat in UK?

Edited by Dino D on Wednesday 16th February 16:03

I don't think you can buy seats specifically for aircraft use, certainly not forward facing seats anyway. Nobody seems to make them.

[boobles]

jcelee said:

Hi Boobles,

Going back to Caterhams, is it possible to safely secure a child seat for a 3yr old using a 4 point harness rather than an inertia reel belt? At what stage can you legally/safely use a booster cushion? I could refit the inertia reel belt but would still need to find a seat that fits on top of a fixed back glassfibre Tillet seat. Any suggestions greatfully received!

Unless the fitting instructions show that you can do this, otherwise the answer is no.
These seats are designed using either isofx or 3pt seat belts & should not be tampered with or used any differently than what the fitting instructions state.

Booster seasts can be used from the age of approx 4 years.

[DBSV8]

boobles said:

We test to R44-04 & Euro Ncap & ADAC. We also go that extra mile & test Side Impact pulses.
I can't compare the Swedish plus tests because we don't do them & it would be unfair for me to try.

thanks ,

but to clarify the swedish plus test exceeds both the above standards and included specific testing to the head and kneck and only 3 manufacturers have so far passed these tests

would that be correct

[boobles]

DBSV8 said:

boobles said:

We test to R44-04 & Euro Ncap & ADAC. We also go that extra mile & test Side Impact pulses.
I can't compare the Swedish plus tests because we don't do them & it would be unfair for me to try.

thanks ,

but to clarify the swedish plus test exceeds both the above standards and included specific testing to the head and kneck and only 3 manufacturers have so far passed these tests

would that be correct

Can't answer that one because I am unsure.

[LooneyTunes]

joewilliams said:

boobles said:

How do you mean "extended rear facing seats" ?

Do you mean keeping children rear facing for longer?

Stuff like this: http://www.carseat.se/

Designed for keeping children rear-facing for as long as possible.

It may well be safer, but I can't find any proper statistics.

This page reckons they're 5 times safer (their links are mostly in Swedish) but it was this report from the British Medical Journal that convinced us.

In a nutshell, between 1999 and 2006 (ETA: in Sweden) there were four children aged under 4 years restrained in rear facing seats were killed. The deaths were due to fire, drowning, or excessive intrusion and were unrelated to the type of car seat. However, during the same period six children aged under 4 years in forward facing booster seats were killed. Three of these crashes (50%!) would have been potentially survivable if the children had been travelling in rear facing seats.

Bearing in mind how little used forward facing seats are in Sweden it seems reasonable to assume that there was a much larger number of accidents involving the rear facing seats.

We have Recaro rear facing seats in our cars - although not sure how well they'd fit in more compact vehicles. The only concerns I have are that
1) If the child wriggles free of the straps, which some can sometimes happen, it's quite difficult to see that they've done it;
2) You do need to manoeuvre/lift the child a little more to get them in - which becomes harder as they get bigger;
3) SWMBO complains it's harder to chat with the little person... personally not had a problem;
4) Due to size, does limit driver's view out of window if child seat sited NSR.

Edited by LooneyTunes on Tuesday 22 February 07:53

[Dino D]

A bit OT but I received my Maxi Cosi Easybase 2 today to go with the Cabriofix we were kindly given by friends (the bases just 55quid on Amazon as they selling them out to make way for the Hamily Fix iso-fix base).
On the side of the box I see 'MADE IN CHINA'.
I never got a box with the Tobi seat we bought a while back so it never occurred to me that Maxi Cosi are made there - at the prices they sell for I always thought it was made in Netherlands.

I know allot of things are made there now and quality is not what it used to be - I work in the cosmetics business and more and more brands are being made there but the payoff is cheaper prices which is reflected in the retail price. Premium brands so not make things in the East yet.

Now on this deal I got for the easybase I'm not complaining - 55.00 was a good deal but normal price is over 100 and in Greece it's 170euro. The Tobi was 270euro when I boughty it form a store here (was trying to support local business...)
I don't mind paying for decent brand that is made in Europe but when they make it in China and then charge the prices they do I think it is taking the piss.

I pay a premium for Avent Bottles made in UK or Nuk dummies made in Germany or a Puky bicycle made in Germany so I have no issue paying the premium price for Maxi Cosi made in Netherlands but when it made in China I expect a made in China price.

I used to swear by Maxi Cosi but now I will not be so enthusiastic of it as a brand - it remains a good product that does the job but the price should reflect the made in China aspect.

Does anyone know of any other big seat brands also made in China?

[LooneyTunes]

Dino D said:

it remains a good product that does the job but the price should reflect the made in China aspect.

Playing Devil's Advocate: How do you know it doesn't? What should the "Chinese" price be?

[Dino D]

LooneyTunes said:

Playing Devil's Advocate: How do you know it doesn't? What should the "Chinese" price be?

In my experience with cosmetics products and packaging 20-40% less. Not the same thing at all granted but nevertheless I would not have been so keen to shell out full price for it knowing it was made in China - my own fault for not checking before I bought (the Tobi), the easybase was a great deal and reflects it's worth in my opinion.

[Piloti]

Thanks for the offer of advice, which coming from your basis of product testing is really appreciated. A couple of quick questions...

Firstly, our everyday cars have rear side airbags. Does this influence the choice of car seat? We currently have Jane Monte Carlo Plus isofix car seats in a BMW 5 series and a Discovery 4.

Secondly, I'm looking to get a couple of occasional use child seats for my wife's station car - a Skoda Fabia which has isofix connection points. We'll normally keep the car seats in the garage, and only use them if we are carrying children in the car. Our children are 4 and 6, 18kg and 25kg.

I'd rather avoid booster cushions, as I value the side protection of a full chair. I wonder whether there are decent non-isofix seats for this occasional use, as it's not the work of a moment to fit and remove an isofix seat. There are some very cheap seats available, but that in itself is a concern - does the Graco Junior High Back provide any advantage over a booster cushion?

What would you recommend?

Thanks!
Piloti

[LooneyTunes]

Dino D said:

In my experience with cosmetics products and packaging 20-40% less. Not the same thing at all granted but nevertheless I would not have been so keen to shell out full price for it knowing it was made in China - my own fault for not checking before I bought (the Tobi), the easybase was a great deal and reflects it's worth in my opinion.

I'm really confused - if it's already made in China, the "full" price surely is the price and already takes into account the cost of production? Are you suggesting that they should have a pricing structure that gives two options: a Chinese produced version at £x, and a Western made version at £2x, or am I missing something obvious?

[boobles]

Piloti said:

Thanks for the offer of advice, which coming from your basis of product testing is really appreciated. A couple of quick questions...

Firstly, our everyday cars have rear side airbags. Does this influence the choice of car seat? We currently have Jane Monte Carlo Plus isofix car seats in a BMW 5 series and a Discovery 4.

Secondly, I'm looking to get a couple of occasional use child seats for my wife's station car - a Skoda Fabia which has isofix connection points. We'll normally keep the car seats in the garage, and only use them if we are carrying children in the car. Our children are 4 and 6, 18kg and 25kg.

I'd rather avoid booster cushions, as I value the side protection of a full chair. I wonder whether there are decent non-isofix seats for this occasional use, as it's not the work of a moment to fit and remove an isofix seat. There are some very cheap seats available, but that in itself is a concern - does the Graco Junior High Back provide any advantage over a booster cushion?

What would you recommend?

Thanks!
Piloti

Thank you for you're kind words.

Here is a link which explains side airbags & child seats which should point you in the right direction.
http://www.childcarseats.org.uk/factsheets/airbags...

Have you considered "high back boosters" these are booster seats with adjustable backs & give adequate side impact protection & some do come in "isofix" mode but you would still have to use the 3pt adult seat belt to secure the child. I am not sure if the Graco Junior comes with isofix but they do offer better side impact protection than booster seats.

[djt100]

Hi boobles,

Can you offer any advise on one of these, seem to get good reviews on web, We're after one as a second to keep in the back of my car

http://www.kiddicare.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet...


Kiddicare.com Midi SP Car Seat - Tarmac

[boobles]

djt100 said:

Hi boobles,

Can you offer any advise on one of these, seem to get good reviews on web, We're after one as a second to keep in the back of my car

http://www.kiddicare.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet...


Kiddicare.com Midi SP Car Seat - Tarmac

Hi,

The only thing that would put me off that seat is the way you adjust the harness.
There are many many seats out there with a "one pull" harness system which means one strap tightens up the harness rather than 2 seperate straps like in this one. You do run the risk of having un-even tension in one of the straps where as the "one pull" systems eliminates this.

[JQ]

Boobles - I really appreciate this thread, and for once my wife is not moaning about me being on Pistonheads.

We have a 2006 Ford C-Max and an 18 month old and a 3yr old. The 3yr old is starting to get too big for our first seat and we're looking for a stage 2 seat (Booster?). What is your recommendation for a cost effective safe seat with no isofix.

ps - what's your view on airbags and forward facing child seats. My sons come out in my MX5 during the summer in forward facing seats - I have manually disconnected the passenger airbag - would you leave it off or turn it back on?

[boobles]

JQ said:

Boobles - I really appreciate this thread, and for once my wife is not moaning about me being on Pistonheads.

We have a 2006 Ford C-Max and an 18 month old and a 3yr old. The 3yr old is starting to get too big for our first seat and we're looking for a stage 2 seat (Booster?). What is your recommendation for a cost effective safe seat with no isofix.

ps - what's your view on airbags and forward facing child seats. My sons come out in my MX5 during the summer in forward facing seats - I have manually disconnected the passenger airbag - would you leave it off or turn it back on?

Hi,

Always glad to help where I can.
I would suggest a "high back booster" these are basically booster seats with a back & they last until the child is approx 11. You can buy several different versions but I would look for one with nice deep side wings which optimize safety for side impact collisions. They do vary in price and worth shopping around.

The airbag should always be switched off if the child is in the front or ofcourse in a 2 seater.
If the airbag can't be switched off (I know you are able to switch you'rs off) then it's recommended to have the passenger seat as far away from the airbag as possible.
I hope this helps.

Edited by boobles on Saturday 5th March 21:29