New car lead times??!!
Discussion
I can't think of anything I would 'queue' / 'wait' for 12+ weeks to buy, only for me to lose the thick end of a good few grand on as soon as I went to collect it.
Certainly nothing coming out of the factories where golfs, fabias, superbes, 3's and their ilk are made
Each to their own though, I can see why some people do
Certainly nothing coming out of the factories where golfs, fabias, superbes, 3's and their ilk are made
Each to their own though, I can see why some people do
Toyota reckon it takes about 20 hours to build a car from sheet metal to finished.
If they were as good at managing their car supply chain forecasting planning as they expect their suppliers to be at managing sequenced lineside supply, you could have a brand new car in days, not weeks / months.
Too many option choices and lack of factory flexibility are the main problems
If they were as good at managing their car supply chain forecasting planning as they expect their suppliers to be at managing sequenced lineside supply, you could have a brand new car in days, not weeks / months.
Too many option choices and lack of factory flexibility are the main problems
Jay12329 said:
Which dealer was that Mike? I'd be keen to find a dealer willing to do some work to secure a sale, rarther than just sitting there not offering a discount and not willing to help!
Thanks
J
OP, I am sure that you will find a helpful dealer eventually. The only suggestion I would make is whatever you do, don't mention that you are thinking of coming out of a company car. Rightly or wrongly that is what may be causing the problem. Very simply, it is so unusual, once customers have worked out what a car actually costs to run (even taking into account mileage allowances etc)including monthly payments,insurance,servicing etc that it very rarely makes financial sense to come out of a company car, unless you are after something different or a car that is simply not available on the company scheme. Don't forget that your car allowance will be taxed at source.Thanks
J
HTH
Colleagues of mine have been quoted 7-8 months for diesel Golf GTs. The lease company blame the dealer - Windrush VW I think - and they blame the fact they've sold out of their allocation.
I can't believe that if you went down there ready to hand over 25k cash, or better yet sign up to one of their credit agreements, then this wouldn't be the case.
I can't believe that if you went down there ready to hand over 25k cash, or better yet sign up to one of their credit agreements, then this wouldn't be the case.
JPJPJP said:
Toyota reckon it takes about 20 hours to build a car from sheet metal to finished.
If they were as good at managing their car supply chain forecasting planning as they expect their suppliers to be at managing sequenced lineside supply, you could have a brand new car in days, not weeks / months.
Too many option choices and lack of factory flexibility are the main problems
Please explain that one to me? So, I order a Mercedes ML (for example). Even assuming that by some miracle UK ordering can place the order with factory overnight (via Germany and then to Alabama)and the car is built the next day, how exactly is the car going to get to the UK in 'a couple of days'? Now that is an extreme example but I'm sure you understand my point.If they were as good at managing their car supply chain forecasting planning as they expect their suppliers to be at managing sequenced lineside supply, you could have a brand new car in days, not weeks / months.
Too many option choices and lack of factory flexibility are the main problems
The post just above yours sums it up very nicely.
HTH
I've had two cars in the past year
Ford Fiesta Zetec S - 4 months
BMW 1 series 120d M sports - 3 months
Friends at work have ordered
Audi A4 lemans - turned up wrong after 6 months, in the process of waiting another 6 months right now.
BMW 325d - 3 months
Audi A3 - 6 months+
VW scirocco - 5 months.
Ford Fiesta Zetec S - 4 months
BMW 1 series 120d M sports - 3 months
Friends at work have ordered
Audi A4 lemans - turned up wrong after 6 months, in the process of waiting another 6 months right now.
BMW 325d - 3 months
Audi A3 - 6 months+
VW scirocco - 5 months.
thenortherner said:
Colleagues of mine have been quoted 7-8 months for diesel Golf GTs. The lease company blame the dealer - Windrush VW I think - and they blame the fact they've sold out of their allocation.
I can't believe that if you went down there ready to hand over 25k cash, or better yet sign up to one of their credit agreements, then this wouldn't be the case.
Yes, it would be exactly the same. Customers need to get used to the idea that these days, even with volume brands, cars are effectively made to order. VAG have got dealer allocation/ordering down to a fine art. Think of it another way though, long lead times means less discounting. Less discount means stronger used values which means you as the customer is better off in the long run.I can't believe that if you went down there ready to hand over 25k cash, or better yet sign up to one of their credit agreements, then this wouldn't be the case.
Don't think this is anything new.
Lady B.J.W had a 6 month wait when she bought her 206 CC back in 2001.
Having said that, In hindsight I wish there had of been a wait on my 54 plate Golf 1.6 FSI, because I would have probably come to my senses.
Have not bought a new car since, and don't intend to either.
Lady B.J.W had a 6 month wait when she bought her 206 CC back in 2001.
Having said that, In hindsight I wish there had of been a wait on my 54 plate Golf 1.6 FSI, because I would have probably come to my senses.
Have not bought a new car since, and don't intend to either.
TVR1 said:
thenortherner said:
Colleagues of mine have been quoted 7-8 months for diesel Golf GTs. The lease company blame the dealer - Windrush VW I think - and they blame the fact they've sold out of their allocation.
I can't believe that if you went down there ready to hand over 25k cash, or better yet sign up to one of their credit agreements, then this wouldn't be the case.
Yes, it would be exactly the same. Customers need to get used to the idea that these days, even with volume brands, cars are effectively made to order. VAG have got dealer allocation/ordering down to a fine art. Think of it another way though, long lead times means less discounting. Less discount means stronger used values which means you as the customer is better off in the long run.I can't believe that if you went down there ready to hand over 25k cash, or better yet sign up to one of their credit agreements, then this wouldn't be the case.
Mum ordered a Golf back in August - still no sign of it.
The official line is that VAG didn't allocate enough UK build slots last year. The unofficial line that I have heard from a few insiders is simply that other markets are more profitable to sell in and they are concentrating on those.
The official line is that VAG didn't allocate enough UK build slots last year. The unofficial line that I have heard from a few insiders is simply that other markets are more profitable to sell in and they are concentrating on those.
RicksAlfas said:
Mum ordered a Golf back in August - still no sign of it.
The official line is that VAG didn't allocate enough UK build slots last year. The unofficial line that I have heard from a few insiders is simply that other markets are more profitable to sell in and they are concentrating on those.
As usual, the 'unofficial line' is a load of twaddle. VAG allocate build slots based on what they think will sell up to 2 years ahead. When VAG where planning production(2008) for 2010/2011 UK/European/worldwide motor sales were going through one of the most dramatic downturns in history, so to a degree your Mum is correct.The official line is that VAG didn't allocate enough UK build slots last year. The unofficial line that I have heard from a few insiders is simply that other markets are more profitable to sell in and they are concentrating on those.
For the VAG dealer network,actually, the UK is one of the most profitable markets in the world. The main issue with production is that we are one of very few RHD markets and pretty much the only volume RHD market in the world. We take a fraction of the numbers of cars here,compared to the rest of the world, so will always be at the back of the queue and you can't just swap production to RHD, if you want to.
Wills2 said:
Ordered a 5 series 10th of Dec delivery date 11th March, so 12 weeks. My Audi allroad took 12 weeks back in 2007 hasn't it always been at least 12 weeks?
6 months does seem along time though.
12 weeks is still about right but it is a bit of pot luck when in the build/production cycle you order. For example, the dealer may not actually be able to place the order with the factory for 8 weeks(production constraints etc), so the 12 weeks starts from there, not when the customer placed the order with the dealer. 6 months does seem along time though.
TVR1 said:
Please explain that one to me? So, I order a Mercedes ML (for example). Even assuming that by some miracle UK ordering can place the order with factory overnight (via Germany and then to Alabama)and the car is built the next day, how exactly is the car going to get to the UK in 'a couple of days'? Now that is an extreme example but I'm sure you understand my point.
The post just above yours sums it up very nicely.
HTH
I didn't say a couple of days, I said in days not weeks (so, if 12 weeks now, then 12 days). Its all about properly managing the supply chain to match customer needs profitably. If customers are happy to wait (and for some reason car buyers do seem to be prepared to wait), then it allows the current configuration of 20 hours to build but 2016 hours to get one (12 weeks) to be sustained.The post just above yours sums it up very nicely.
HTH
If your order is a real and paid for one, then it could show on the factory build plan within about 1 second from being entered into the dealer's computer and it could go into production in the first slot. No reason why that can't be bumped up above all the build to stock rubbish that tends to clutter up production schedules.
Consider that if Tesco orders a truck full of crisps from Walkers on Monday, they arrive at the Tesco DC on Tuesday. Walkers makes every variety of crisps at least once a day to make sure this can be done.
What makes it hard for car producers to do is that the range is so complex (too many options) and the factories aren't flexible enough (fixed production for at least a week in most of the ones I have seen). What makes it easy for them is that customers are happy to wait and to pay a premium for a new car to their spec. rather than taking an existing one that is near enough for less
TVR1 said:
As usual, the 'unofficial line' is a load of twaddle. VAG allocate build slots based on what they think will sell up to 2 years ahead. When VAG where planning production(2008) for 2010/2011 UK/European/worldwide motor sales were going through one of the most dramatic downturns in history, so to a degree your Mum is correct.
But that doesn't explain why the dealer was quite happy to take the order in August quoting a delivery time of October if they knew two years prior that they had run out of units. The unoffical line I heard was off the record from a Skoda dealer. He had no axe to grind with me, we were just making conversation.Whatever the reason it's incredibly frustrating.
>Cynic mode on<
If the car has a long waiting list the public will assume it is good. The public will queue up to buy them and used prices at our franchised dealers will be stronger.
We will sell more car and our franchises will be happy so when we cut our commission they won't grumble too much.
>Cynic mode off<
If the car has a long waiting list the public will assume it is good. The public will queue up to buy them and used prices at our franchised dealers will be stronger.
We will sell more car and our franchises will be happy so when we cut our commission they won't grumble too much.
>Cynic mode off<
JPJPJP said:
I didn't say a couple of days, I said in days not weeks (so, if 12 weeks now, then 12 days). Its all about properly managing the supply chain to match customer needs profitably. If customers are happy to wait (and for some reason car buyers do seem to be prepared to wait), then it allows the current configuration of 20 hours to build but 2016 hours to get one (12 weeks) to be sustained.
If your order is a real and paid for one, then it could show on the factory build plan within about 1 second from being entered into the dealer's computer and it could go into production in the first slot. No reason why that can't be bumped up above all the build to stock rubbish that tends to clutter up production schedules.
Consider that if Tesco orders a truck full of crisps from Walkers on Monday, they arrive at the Tesco DC on Tuesday. Walkers makes every variety of crisps at least once a day to make sure this can be done.
What makes it hard for car producers to do is that the range is so complex (too many options) and the factories aren't flexible enough (fixed production for at least a week in most of the ones I have seen). What makes it easy for them is that customers are happy to wait and to pay a premium for a new car to their spec. rather than taking an existing one that is near enough for less
Very simplistic view but a packet of crisps is hardly a motor car. The problem at the moment is that no manufacturer wants to produce more cars than they think they can sell, hence lead times, it is a very expensive business producing cars that don't sell. There are only a finite number of cars that dealers can stock at any one time.If your order is a real and paid for one, then it could show on the factory build plan within about 1 second from being entered into the dealer's computer and it could go into production in the first slot. No reason why that can't be bumped up above all the build to stock rubbish that tends to clutter up production schedules.
Consider that if Tesco orders a truck full of crisps from Walkers on Monday, they arrive at the Tesco DC on Tuesday. Walkers makes every variety of crisps at least once a day to make sure this can be done.
What makes it hard for car producers to do is that the range is so complex (too many options) and the factories aren't flexible enough (fixed production for at least a week in most of the ones I have seen). What makes it easy for them is that customers are happy to wait and to pay a premium for a new car to their spec. rather than taking an existing one that is near enough for less
There are other issues that come up too, that effect the build process. One example was the change over to Euro 5 emission regs on 1st Jan this year. This caused an issue with the supply as most manufacturers simply stopped production around Sept/October because it would have been illegal to sell these cars past 31st Dec 2010 and no manufacturer wanted to have to crush cars. Basically, if you ordered a car Oct/Nov/Dec last year, you will probably see it around the end of March/April.
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