RE: Driven: McLaren MP4-12C

[brad.noble]

kambites said:

They do if you want to sell cars in the states and the rest of Europe.

Yeah, but making them all LHD is ridiculous.

[Finchy172]

brad.noble said:

Yeah, but making them all LHD is ridiculous.

There not all LHD they come in either LHD or RHD.

[IMI A]

its nice chaps but nothing more. I realise it will destroy most things on the road/track but the car just looks completely uncool. Skinny tyres and tron type styling with a front end that just looks dates. THe rear end would be great f the the rear tyres were two inches wider. My money would go on an FF or 458 however inferior they are from a tech perspective.

Its a massive massive shame that such a technical tour de force has styling that looks more dated than its predecessor the F1. I think this car is going to be a spectacular failure unless it gets a radical styling update within 12 months

[IMI A]

My comments may be a bit OTT as I have not seen it in the flesh yet but the pics don't do it any favours

[PiB]

I'd still like to read a review of the car. What the throttle, steering, brakes all respond like. Clearly it sounds like a winner so hats off to Mclaren.

The looks are not amazing but no worse than a 997 911 - better I would say.

I'm a little uncertain the direction these cars are going. It began with the Nissan GTR, then the 458 and now the MP4-12C has all these stability controls.

[ptopman]

Dick Seaman said:

daveco said:

Exterior and engine note aside, the article states the McLaren trumps the Ferrari and all other competitors on every other aspect. That would lead me to conclude it is the better car, and not just 'different'. The final sentence reads like a capitulation to Ferrari; i.e. 'best not upset the Italians so we can keep reviewing their cars'.

It does, and Ferrari are notoriously sensitive to any criticism. (For 'criticism' read anything other than simpering hyperbole).

Ferrai should be worried about this car. The McLaren is at least the dynamic equal of the 458, and as such, will appeal to many drivers after the ultimate road performance who are a little uncomfortable with the Ferrari image.

It's always amusing to read how the previous generation Ferrari, so lavishly praised in its time, was in fact not all that good. Apparently "355 (or 360 or to a much lesser extent 430) wasn't quite as good as we told you, but boy, this 360 (or 430 or 458) is something else. Trust us."

[mikEsprit]

IMI A said:

its nice chaps but nothing more. I realise it will destroy most things on the road/track but the car just looks completely uncool. Skinny tyres and tron type styling with a front end that just looks dates. THe rear end would be great f the the rear tyres were two inches wider. My money would go on an FF or 458 however inferior they are from a tech perspective.

Its a massive massive shame that such a technical tour de force has styling that looks more dated than its predecessor the F1. I think this car is going to be a spectacular failure unless it gets a radical styling update within 12 months

It's strange that it has managed to look rather bland despite unique gills on the sides, an interesting back end and scissor doors. The face is just too plain. I'd analogize it to various #1 ranked female tennis players who don't get 1/10 the attention of their prettier, but less talented rivals.

[davidcharles]

PiB said:

I'd still like to read a review of the car. What the throttle, steering, brakes all respond like. Clearly it sounds like a winner so hats off to Mclaren.

The looks are not amazing but no worse than a 997 911 - better I would say.

I'm a little uncertain the direction these cars are going. It began with the Nissan GTR, then the 458 and now the MP4-12C has all these stability controls.

it began with Nissan GTR?.....what began with GTR?...stability control/4 wheel drive/etc etc have been around for years.Its just that modern cars are using it brutally efficiently now.

[DanS]

Scuffers said:

to a point, your right...

the press all fawned over the Evora, but it still did not sell (too expensive/not in the right market/etc.) whereas the GTR has sold in numbers.

with this Mclaren, I don't think they actually need the press to go on about it, it will sell itself.

Evora would have sold one more if the dealers were any good. I rang three asking to test drive, none came back to me. I bought a Porsche.

Now I know what to replace the Porsche with. This. I have ordered an extra large piggy bank.

[Harry Monk]

British Beef said:

What a load of rubbish, I suspect the owner of the above statement is an idiot!

I am not going to say all the options below are / were better, but they are certainly rivals, "convinving" is a more subjective matter.

Porsche 911 rivals - Lotus Esprits and TVRs when they were around, Nobles more recently and Lotus Evora S, Aston Martin Vantage currently.

VW Golf, Plenty of hot hatch alternatives out there, the Focus ST we developed on home soil, despite being a yank brand.

Audi R8 - Aston Martin Vantage and Jag XKR

Prosche Cayman - Lotus Evora

Merc SLS - Jag XF

Merc SL - Jags and Astons

M3 - this has been for most its life in a league of its own. Recently S-type R, and XFR are close in performance and price.

M5 - Lotus Carlton and (the older) Jag XJRs, currently XFR.

Your argument would have some credence if any of the British alternatives you mentioned were
a). properly British companies
or
b). better than the German alternatives.

Unfortunately, neither is the case. Which is why the British car industry is in such a parlous state. What is our biggest domestic manufacturer? Metrocabs? We turned into a sweat shop for Japanese and American companies and even that is looking like a dead end.

I'm not trying to run down our country as I would love to see the McLaren stick it to the rest and early reports suggest it just might. I just don't view our domestic output through rose-tinted spectacles. Your login name suggests otherwise.

[andyps]

ptopman said:

It's always amusing to read how the previous generation Ferrari, so lavishly praised in its time, was in fact not all that good. Apparently "355 (or 360 or to a much lesser extent 430) wasn't quite as good as we told you, but boy, this 360 (or 430 or 458) is something else. Trust us."

Agree, and as they get older they actually are revealed as having been bad cars, think 348 for that one. Don't remember reading that when it was new.

[Streetrod]

PiB said:

I'd still like to read a review of the car. What the throttle, steering, brakes all respond like. Clearly it sounds like a winner so hats off to Mclaren.

The looks are not amazing but no worse than a 997 911 - better I would say.

I'm a little uncertain the direction these cars are going. It began with the Nissan GTR, then the 458 and now the MP4-12C has all these stability controls.

We have reached a point in the supercar evolution where the only limiting factor is the numpty behind the wheel, Ask Adrian Newey how fast an F1 car could go if they were given free range to implement all the technology they have. The same applies to a road car to a certain extent. The manufactures are constrained by still having to keep the driver involved

[K321]

i think this car will be a flop in the same vein as honda nsx

the car looks dated, i saw a prototype a few months ago in a mcdonalds car park and when i saw it i thought it looked like a gallardo kit car.


the back end to me looks particularly awful, and plasticky

globally i think this car will be a sales disaster, why would someone in usa,/china/russiapick this car over a 458/997/lp 700/ audi R8

[NoelWatson]

K321 said:

i think this car will be a flop in the same vein as honda nsx

When you worked at Honda, what were their targets, and how far did they fall short?

[K321]

Noel, i havent worked at Honda, but they did fall short of their planned production, how many were they selling in the UK ? i guess in their 10's at the most, and probably most were sold as Acura's in USA. Mclaren doesnt have much brand awareness in the USA, china/Russia and Far East - singapore/HK etc, where most of the cars of this ilk are being bought currently

[Streetrod]

K321 said:

i think this car will be a flop in the same vein as honda nsx

the car looks dated, i saw a prototype a few months ago in a mcdonalds car park and when i saw it i thought it looked like a gallardo kit car.


the back end to me looks particularly awful, and plasticky

globally i think this car will be a sales disaster, why would someone in usa,/china/russiapick this car over a 458/997/lp 700/ audi R8

Before you made that statement I would have suggested you check out some of the American and International forums. The Americans especially are foaming at the mouth at the prospect of a MP4 on their drive. A number I have spoken too have orders in the bag

[NoelWatson]

K321 said:

Noel, i havent worked at Honda, but they did fall short of their planned production, how many were they selling in the UK ? i guess in their 10's at the most, and probably most were sold as Acura's in USA. Mclaren doesnt have much brand awareness in the USA, china/Russia and Far East - singapore/HK etc, where most of the cars of this ilk are being bought currently

I don't know what their planned production was, and I don't know if they were planning a 911 beater (sales wise). However, I do see the link between the NSX and McLaren, and I will be tempted to replace one with the other at some point unless Honda bring out a replacement.

[B10]

Harry Monk said:

Your argument would have some credence if any of the British alternatives you mentioned were
a). properly British companies
or
b). better than the German alternatives.

Unfortunately, neither is the case. Which is why the British car industry is in such a parlous state. What is our biggest domestic manufacturer? Metrocabs? We turned into a sweat shop for Japanese and American companies and even that is looking like a dead end.

I'm not trying to run down our country as I would love to see the McLaren stick it to the rest and early reports suggest it just might. I just don't view our domestic output through rose-tinted spectacles. Your login name suggests otherwise.

a) Yes technically Jaguar and Lotus are not British owned. However they are designed and built here. Aston is owned by a consortium that is partially British.
b) This is subjective and many will agree or disagree with you.
My original point was about the McLaren and the boringly typical comments about past UK products.
Lets be positive rather than continually putting ourselves down with damp praise and inaccuarte reflecting upon the past. It is no better than making jokes about Skoda that saying that they make poorly handling rear engined cars, or saying that BMW still make Austin 7s under licence.

[Asterix]

NoelWatson said:

K321 said:

Noel, i havent worked at Honda, but they did fall short of their planned production, how many were they selling in the UK ? i guess in their 10's at the most, and probably most were sold as Acura's in USA. Mclaren doesnt have much brand awareness in the USA, china/Russia and Far East - singapore/HK etc, where most of the cars of this ilk are being bought currently

I don't know what their planned production was, and I don't know if they were planning a 911 beater (sales wise). However, I do see the link between the NSX and McLaren, and I will be tempted to replace one with the other at some point unless Honda bring out a replacement.

1,000 units a year seems to ring a bell with me - could be wrong of course.

[Richard-G]

K321 said:

i think this car will be a flop in the same vein as honda nsx

the car looks dated, i saw a prototype a few months ago in a mcdonalds car park and when i saw it i thought it looked like a gallardo kit car.


the back end to me looks particularly awful, and plasticky

globally i think this car will be a sales disaster, why would someone in usa,/china/russiapick this car over a 458/997/lp 700/ audi R8

looks are subjective so i wont comment on any of that, However if you saw a prototype then it would be dressed like a kit car as thats the idea.

and i think you have underestimatedthe love and history behind the mclaren brand, massivly