RE: Ferrari 458 Vs McLaren 12C - The Verdict

[otolith]

Seems to me that McLaren have been successful in creating a car which competes with the 458 on McLaren's terms and not on Ferrari's. I think that's probably the correct strategy - I suspect that those who prefer the 458 for its drama would still choose the Ferrari even if McLaren had tried to make a car for them. Better for McLaren to be itself and do what it is good at than to try to be Ferrari.

[jellison]

scotty_917 said:

I was thinking the same. Initial indicators were suggesting +1200kgs...though the performance envelope is still staggering.

Exact, surely Mac'er could get this 100kg heavier that an F1 (which had a much bigger 6.0 V12 compared to this ones 3.8 V8 TT). But 300 odd kg over an F1 is just Lazy (when they could clearly do it). 350kg is a massive amount.

F1 power to weight is in another league, M12C (592/1434)= 412bhp/ton (metric) vs F1 (627/1140kg)= 550bhp/ton, mainly down to the weight. 294kg heavier - Christ that is HUGE (where is it?).

[B10]

For me the McLaren is a better looking car. The Ferrari is over styled in the same way as a MINI is. To me it is Jermyn Street versus Hugo Boss.

[Kamox]

redgriff500 said:

Both are more than fast enough. Supercars are bought on feelings rather than facts

I agree. No doubt the McLaren is technically better, but I'm not an engineer. I'm not a professional driver anyway, so I'd go Ferrari (which is not a bad car).
You buy these cars with your heart and stomach, not with your brain.

[F1GTRUeno]

jellison said:

xact, surely Mac'er could get this 100kg heavier that an F1 (which had a much bigger 6.0 V12 compared to this ones 3.8 V8 TT). But 300 odd kg over an F1 is just Lazy (when they could clearly do it). 350kg is a massive amount.

F1 power to weight is in another league, M12C (592/1434)= 412bhp/ton (metric) vs F1 (627/1140kg)= 550bhp/ton, mainly down to the weight. 294kg heavier - Christ that is HUGE (where is it?).

You do realise there are about a million valid reasons as to why it weighs that much more than the F1?

Not having a weight-obsessed Gordan Murray being one of them.

[fatboy18]

I wonder what the resale value between these two cars would be in years to come I'm thinking the Mclaren would be the better investment as a Toy? I really do need to win the Lottery

[kambites]

fatboy18 said:

I wonder what the resale value between these two cars would be in years to come I'm thinking the Mclaren would be the better investment as a Toy? I really do need to win the Lottery

Given the volumes, I can't see either being a good "investment". They're both going to lose an awful lot of money (unless the Mclaren is a complete flop and they don't sell many, which doesn't look likely).

[Corsair7]

Not a special looking car, which is a shame. Someone said it looked like it might be one of the 'future Loyus models', and I have to agree. Most people buy such cars because of how they look and make them feel, not how they go, so I'd suggest the Maccer will only be a 'technical' success with the people that rate such criteria highly. I dont think the 12c will make anyone feel that 'special' once they own and run it, except when they get the 'knowing nods of appreciation' from other like minded car nerds and bores.....


On another point, the inclusion of the 'fancy doors' just makes the future production of a convertable less likely, or if produced, less pertinent to the original car. Am I right in saying the majority of F430's sold were actually convertables? I believe so. People might say the a convertable supercar is a bit of an 'oxymoron' any way, but you cant ignore this segment of the market and still deliver a sales success.......

[Antj]

It seems to have taken so long to come to market, i hope its worth it. It must be some 18 months since we saw one on the road parked outside the lindner when they done the LFA reveal. Yet its still not here.

i have to say its not as prety as the 458 buits its still a looker, also for a non-mainstream brand it looks very very mainstream if that makes sense. its not a jumble of parts bins but like something either BMW or Porsche could have put together.

I think it will do really well,

[P9UNK]

DS240 said:

Heart = Ferrari

Head is saying that Mclaren have dived back into making cars with quite a technically advanced car.

If I had the money to buy just one though, and it was my first proper 'supercar'.... I would have to take the Ferrari.

I don't think the Mclaren is that dull in the looks department, like most commentators are saying. Fairly generic sport car styling, but not dull. I think the detailing will be excellent in the metal.

Don't forget to get that armourfend stuff to stop the stone chips from passing McLarens

[Life Saab Itch]

F1GTRUeno said:

You do realise there are about a million valid reasons as to why it weighs that much more than the F1?

Not having a weight-obsessed Gordan Murray being one of them.

Not to mention the lack of anything in the F1, compared to the electrical everything in the 12C

[george h]

Are Mclaren going to make a spyder version any time in the near future?

[Zod]

Henry Fiddleton said:

Heart says = Porsche GT2RS
Wallet would say = GT2

Both too lardy, and to technical for my liking.

The GT2 and GT2 RS being non-technical cars?

[PaulMoor]

g3org3y said:

A Nissan GTR may be more capable than an Elsie or a Caterham, but it doesn't make it the better drivers' car.

I get your point, and I'm being picky, but most (if not all) Caterhams will destroy a GTR in terms of performance. Admitidly the GTR will be faster for alot of people given its better performance in vital areas such as "not dumping you in a gravle trap/ditch/tree when you take liberty's with your right foot" and "forgiving ham fisted stearing".

I would guess that the Maca will be a better drivers car, given the companys past, goles for this car, and Ferraris current obsesion with craming every gizmo and toy in possible in.

[andyps]

I just posted it on the other thread, having not read this one at the time, but really pleased to see that there is no mention of a lap time of the ring. I do hope McLaren don't bother going down that route.

[anniesdad]

Imagine the look on the owners face of the conventionally doored Ferrari 458, at the petrol forecourt, when an MP4-12C owner pulls in and pops open his dihedral door to exit.

Pure theatre.

I suspect also reason enough to attract over some of the Ferraristi.

[yearoneracing]

anniesdad said:

Imagine the look on the owners face of the conventionally doored Ferrari 458, at the petrol forecourt, when an MP4-12C owner pulls in and pops open his dihedral door to exit.

Pure theatre.

I suspect also reason enough to attract over some of the Ferraristi.

Personally I hate the doors on the Macca. I would have the 458 every day of the week although very pleased to see British engineering leading the way.

If the 458 and the MP4-12C (sounds like the name of a Casio calculator) were women which would you rather have an affair with?

[jellison]

F1GTRUeno said:

You do realise there are about a million valid reasons as to why it weighs that much more than the F1?

Not having a weight-obsessed Gordan Murray being one of them.

Nothing wrong with being weight obsessed As with the ladies - it is Weight in terms of muscle vs flab

[rocketride]

To be honest up and till i saw the side by side pics of the Ferrari and 12C i had always prefered the Ferrari. But i do think the MC12 looks almost as good. It seems to sit better, and look wider.

But to be honest they look 80% the same. You cant really take one over the other its that close!!

Thumbs up for the 12C and 458 from me!

Edited by rocketride on Monday 14th February 11:56

[Richard A]

glendon said:

To be honest, both cars looks leave me cold. Far too many gimmicky styling cues and no real classic lines.
Mclaren have made what appears to be a dynamically impressive car, but the looks are extremely generic... what a missed opportunity.
As for the Ferrari, the rear and side profile look ok, but the 'angry' headlights and bonnet creases look crap.
On a tangent now, but why do so many cars have angry faces? the F40 never did, and still looks amazing! Doubt the 458 will in twenty years...

Absolutely agree! Good cars should look calm and confident (McLaren F1 and Ferrari F40 being good examples), not vogueish teenage-aggressive.

The McLaren is not a disaster, but it just has a few too many "Oh, this will be an exciting detail, let's stick that on" moments (a bit like the Evora in that respect).

Edited by Richard A on Monday 14th February 11:59