RE: Pic Of The Week: Pagani Huayra

[ArosaMike]

Mr Whippy said:

It is interesting to see that much angle.

I wonder if it matters much with the expected short travel the suspension will have at that end anyway.

What would be as interesting would be a side view without the wheel on too

Dave

I'm glad the two of you noticed that, because I'd thought the same when I saw some pictures of the Zonda a few years back. I can only assume it does work, but it seems strange considering the potential geometry change during their travel. The angle of that toe link looks a bit questionable for such a huge wheel/tyre assembly too. I can't help but feel there'd be a fairly large degree of compliance in it under load unless they're using 4mm thick steel tube!

I suppose a lack of fundamental understanding isn't beyond the realms of possibility, seeing as so many in this country (mentioning no names, Aerial Atom) have some quite worryingly poor mechanical design for suspension components.

[wackojacko]

Hmmm , Gold of all colours

[toast boy]

Mr Whippy said:

Richard A said:

That's quite a wide angle off the longitudinal on the rear upper wishbone mounts... I'll have to research it.

It is interesting to see that much angle.

I was just thinking the same thing, can anyone shed any light on how that's going to affect the handling, presumably there must be a good reason for doing it like that?

[TotalControl]

wackojacko said:

Hmmm , Gold of all colours

I like it.

[Streetrod]

ArosaMike said:

Mr Whippy said:

It is interesting to see that much angle.

I wonder if it matters much with the expected short travel the suspension will have at that end anyway.

What would be as interesting would be a side view without the wheel on too

Dave

I'm glad the two of you noticed that, because I'd thought the same when I saw some pictures of the Zonda a few years back. I can only assume it does work, but it seems strange considering the potential geometry change during their travel. The angle of that toe link looks a bit questionable for such a huge wheel/tyre assembly too. I can't help but feel there'd be a fairly large degree of compliance in it under load unless they're using 4mm thick steel tube!

I suppose a lack of fundamental understanding isn't beyond the realms of possibility, seeing as so many in this country (mentioning no names, Aerial Atom) have some quite worryingly poor mechanical design for suspension components.

Guys the Huayra's suspension is based on the Zonda R's geometry and set up and I think we all know how well that works. As a side bar oddly the Zonda R's geometry and suspension setup is street rather than track biased. This apparently is why it is so easy for a mere numpty to be able to get such good times out of the car. The Zonda R was never designed or set up for the serious racer, but for the gentleman track day enthusiast.

David Hansson the owner of the Zonda HH took a ride in the Huayra last week and this is what he had to say:

"I had a chance to catch a ride in the new Pagani Huayra at the factory yesterday. It was unfortunately pouring rain, so I didn't get much of a take for the straight line performance which supposedly feels Veyron fast. But I did get a great sense for everything else. In short, the car is phenomenal. It looks very different in person than most of the pictures. It's like the proportions don't show well. The grill, for example, looks enormous on a lot of pictures and it just doesn't in person. It's an incredibly striking car with huge presence.

The car rides extremely well. Even better than the Zonda, which I already found to be immensely comfortable. It's more comfortable than a Porsche Panamera, yet much better body control. The road noise is also very muted, but you're fed a great tune from the engine and the turbos. While the sound isn't as melodic as the naturally aspirated Zonda, it's still a great symphony of engine, swooshing, waste gates, and mechanical sounds. Nothing like the sterile sound of, say, a Porsche Turbo.

The cabin is slightly longer than the Zonda, which gives it a little more of a GT feel. The quality of everything is unparalleled. Every single switch, toggle, indictor, and button is machined to perfection. This is the opposite of the "parts bin" approach. There are many hints and similarities to the Zonda, but it's definitely not a Mk 2 product. It's a different vibe and feel. More of an alternate product than a direct successor.

The active aero wings are incredibly cool. It's like nothing you've ever seen on any car before. They're constantly in play when you're driving in a spirited mode. You can see the front flaps at all times from within the cabin. When you break hard, they pop up as air brakes. When you corner aggressively, they go up differently to create more down force on the side that needs it. This could easily have felt like a gimmick, but it just doesn't. It feels like an integral part of a car designed to take advantage of it.

The transmission is a single-clutch Xtrac, similar to what Lambo is doing with the LP700. It's got great low speed smoothness and plenty of aggression at full bore. It's not as smooth as a DSG, but to me it ups the mechanical connection to the car. It's like a skeleton Swiss watch. You can see and feel the movement.

Speaking of Swiss watches, that's exactly what the Huayra feels like -- and intentionally so. Pagani had the main dials created by a supplier to the big Swiss houses and it shows. The whole car will have astounding performance, but what sets it apart from even a Veyron is how everything feels like a delicate Swiss movement. The McLaren's of the world will make ever more precise quartz movements, but Pagani keeps the connection to the mechanical heritage of the car.

I watched them put together the show car that's being used for the world premiere tonight yesterday and the difference to even the Lamborghini V12 assembly line was staggering. You had 5-6 Italians all buzzing around the car at a single station, working things out, and putting them together. Versus the V12 assembly line I toured at Lamborghini today, which has definitely been tuned for high efficiency by the Germans. It allows them to produce 15 cars per week while Pagani will only make 40 Huayras per year, but some of the magic is lost.

Pagani produces romantic cars in a romantic fashion that's almost gone from modern car making. The fact that the end product is so spectacular is just astounding. Imagine a company of less than 50 people who can continuously dominate the attention like they had. The guys were chuckling about how the Huayra owned all magazine covers this month and the Ferrari FF was nowhere to be found.

I will definitely own a Huayra sooner or later."

[ArosaMike]

There is a difference between getting it to work and it being correct 'proper' engineering. There are a lot of cars around where the geometry/mechanical design is wrong, but because of development they've managed to largely correct the issues it may cause. You may well ask then why it matters, and to the general public, it doesn't. However, poor initial design usually leads to unnecessarily heavy components.

A classic example is rod ends in bending (http://www.formulastudent.de/de/academy/pats-corner/advice-details/article/pats-column-rod-ends-in-bending/ for more info). It's a fundamentally poor design, but with testing, failures can be avoided. The only issue is, you end up with a wishbone assembly that's twice the weight it needs to be. My Caterham for example has an M14 rod end on the upper wishbone. A Formula 1 car has an M6 bolt that does the same job, and yet it sees 5 times the load my Caterham does. The reason....correct engineering design!

Whilst the Pagani's wishbones may well work, they may have had to sacrifice compliancy in the suspension to do so. I'm happy for someone with more experience than me to explain why the wishbone design is fine, but it may be possible for them to produce a better car with better design!

[dinkel]

[bobberz]

There's something inherently geeky about these sorts of pictures, but I love it! To me, sometimes the engineering underneath a supercar is more beautiful than the car itself. That's definitely the case here: I wasn't a fan of the Huayra when I first saw it, but now I kinda like it! Same with the Aston One-77.

My new desktop.

As to the name, I think I've figured it out: it's what US soldiers shout, "HOOH-RAH!!!"

[Mr Whippy]

ArosaMike said:

Whilst the Pagani's wishbones may well work, they may have had to sacrifice compliancy in the suspension to do so. I'm happy for someone with more experience than me to explain why the wishbone design is fine, but it may be possible for them to produce a better car with better design!

The design maybe looks at wheel control and desireable kinematics for such a powerful rwd road car, more than it is for weight/packaging which Pagani can control in other ways anyway.

Formula race cars NEED to be light no matter what, budgets are small, and exotic materials elsewhere might be off the list.
Cheap replacements are needed, so cheap manufacturing processes are needed, as racing will see them damaged.
Racing also means rapid adjustment of alignment too if needed.


I'm fairly certain they have done it the way they have for a reason. As said, it's a GT road car and a friendly limit kinematic setup probably came above those extra grammes of weight?!

Dave

[SteveHall30]

So this is from last year or so, but had to say.
Am I wrong, or did they put a left handed assymetric tyre on the right wheel?