RE: Alfa Romeo Reveals 4C Concept
Discussion
Tuvra said:
Will they if their in limited numbers though? The 8C has been out a while now and had a RRP of £115,000 (ish) and you cant buy one today for under £129k.
Im not saying this will be the case with the 4c, I do however think it will depreciate alot better than a similarly priced Z4 or SLK.
Good question. Are there plans to artificially limit production then? Im not saying this will be the case with the 4c, I do however think it will depreciate alot better than a similarly priced Z4 or SLK.
kambites said:
ZesPak said:
SLK: 1500kg
Z4: 1500kg
that means that at 1100kg it would still have 400kg or over 25% on them. Aside from not having a folding roof, I'm asking myself how will they do that for roughly the same price?
Well the fact that they can use the roof for rigidity must save a fair bit (100kg, maybe)? It's also a damned slight smaller.Z4: 1500kg
that means that at 1100kg it would still have 400kg or over 25% on them. Aside from not having a folding roof, I'm asking myself how will they do that for roughly the same price?
The Z4 is 20cm longer, and has a bigger engine so that's already an achievement in weight imho. The auto boxes are heavier though.
Then, another 300kg is a lot. I don't know how the engines compare, what would be the weight of this one?
kambites said:
Most "punters" may prefer a flappy-paddle auto, but are they generally the kind of people who will buy this class of car? If it really ends up weighing 850kg they'll have to make considerable compromises when it comes to NVH, which will aim it squarely at enthusiasts. It's also likely to have bugger all boot space, which puts off "normal" buyers.
Personally, I suspect it'll end up weighing 1100kg and being aimed at the SLK/Z4, in which case I suspect it'll succeed. I might even consider one for the wife when they've had a chance to depreciate like only an Alfa can.
Because technology sells to punters. End of story. Personally, I suspect it'll end up weighing 1100kg and being aimed at the SLK/Z4, in which case I suspect it'll succeed. I might even consider one for the wife when they've had a chance to depreciate like only an Alfa can.
Most punters dont care about NVH, they care about looks, what the interior looks like and does it feel relatively sporty.
All Alfa have to do is keep the price below £40k, keep the power about 230 and weight at around 1000kg...and keep the looks.
ZesPak said:
Sorry to disagree with you again, as I said, the non-cabrio form saves a fair bit. But it has exactly the same length as the MiTo and thus the SLK.
The Z4 is 20cm longer, and has a bigger engine so that's already an achievement in weight imho. The auto boxes are heavier though.
Then, another 300kg is a lot. I don't know how the engines compare, what would be the weight of this one?
I must admit, I hadn't realised ho small the SLK was. Bugger knows how they've got it to weigh 1500kg then. The Z4 is 20cm longer, and has a bigger engine so that's already an achievement in weight imho. The auto boxes are heavier though.
Then, another 300kg is a lot. I don't know how the engines compare, what would be the weight of this one?
DJC said:
Most punters dont care about NVH, they care about looks, what the interior looks like and does it feel relatively sporty.
What?!? Must punters don't care about NVH? Have you seen the average drivers' face then they feel and hear how an Elise rattles and bangs around? I think NVH is probably the single most important aspect of a modern car to most people, beyond actual practicalities, at least.
kambites said:
Good question. Are there plans to artificially limit production then?
Motor Authority said:
The good news is that the car is destined for production and is slated for release late next year. This puts its release in parallel with the Italian brand’s relaunch in the U.S. market, and according to Alfa Romeo CEO Harald Wester, the 4C is definitely U.S. bound.
The halo car "will bring us back into markets such as the United States, where we are not present today," Wester confirmed to AutoWeek during a recent interview.
Production of the 4C will be limited, with only around 15,000 to 20,000 units planned over five years for worldwide sale
How many will be UK bound I dont know....The halo car "will bring us back into markets such as the United States, where we are not present today," Wester confirmed to AutoWeek during a recent interview.
Production of the 4C will be limited, with only around 15,000 to 20,000 units planned over five years for worldwide sale
kambites said:
I must admit, I hadn't realised ho small the SLK was. Bugger knows how they've got it to weigh 1500kg then.
indeed, it's hard to believe, they must have really been trying to make it weigh as much as a mid-size saloon.But for a car of it's size I think the SLK looks very well proportioned.
DJC said:
The Alfa is better looking.
It has new tech fancy gearbox that the majority of punters like. Note...punters, not "enthusiasts".
It will cost roughly the same as a current Elise SC according to the figures given by the chap above.
It will produce more power than the Elise SC.
It will have a vastly better interior.
In fact it strikes me that the 4C is much more like what folks wanted from the Evora at the price they wanted. I fully intend putting my name down with Alfa at Geneva on Saturday.
And your girlfriend/wife/anyone who isn't a fellow car nut won't look like a tit getting in and out of it. Not something I care about personally but I'm sure it helps when you're discussing the expenditure. It has new tech fancy gearbox that the majority of punters like. Note...punters, not "enthusiasts".
It will cost roughly the same as a current Elise SC according to the figures given by the chap above.
It will produce more power than the Elise SC.
It will have a vastly better interior.
In fact it strikes me that the 4C is much more like what folks wanted from the Evora at the price they wanted. I fully intend putting my name down with Alfa at Geneva on Saturday.
BTW -congratulations to the two gents going to Geneva to register their interest. I'm insanely jealous but it in a good way. Perhaps let us know what it's like when you take delivery?
giles77 said:
BTW -congratulations to the two gents going to Geneva to register their interest. I'm insanely jealous but it in a good way. Perhaps let us know what it's like when you take delivery?
I echo those thoughts. 
The 4C may not be very different in concept to an Elise but the fact that a mainstream manufacturer is going to produce an Elise-like car is, I think, a genuinely exciting development.
braddo said:
I echo those thoughts.
The 4C may not be very different in concept to an Elise but the fact that a mainstream manufacturer is going to produce an Elise-like car is, I think, a genuinely exciting development.
^^^^ This. Hopefully they won't make a pigs ear of it and it will be a success. If they pull it off, it might just encourage other manufacturers to take note. While the Elise was a grounbreaking car, it was too compromised in certain areas to be a real viable choice for a lot of people. Hopefully this will take the basic Elise formula and make it more approachable for a wider audience. If other manufactuers jump on the bandwagon then all the better. I'd rather we had more cars of this type then just another boring Econobox.The 4C may not be very different in concept to an Elise but the fact that a mainstream manufacturer is going to produce an Elise-like car is, I think, a genuinely exciting development.
Tuvra said:
Will they if their in limited numbers though? The 8C has been out a while now and had a RRP of £115,000 (ish) and you cant buy one today for under £129k.
Im not saying this will be the case with the 4c, I do however think it will depreciate alot better than a similarly priced Z4 or SLK.
It didnt. Oh trust me it didnt! It might have started out at that, but it sure as hell didnt finish up at that!Im not saying this will be the case with the 4c, I do however think it will depreciate alot better than a similarly priced Z4 or SLK.
kambites said:
What?!? Must punters don't care about NVH? Have you seen the average drivers' face then they feel and hear how an Elise rattles and bangs around?
I think NVH is probably the single most important aspect of a modern car to most people, beyond actual practicalities, at least.
I use my wife as the average. She cares about how it looks, inside and out, does it have some "oomf" and comfort/ease of use.I think NVH is probably the single most important aspect of a modern car to most people, beyond actual practicalities, at least.
Nobody in my experience gives a rats arse about NVH compared to those criteria and certainly not on a 15min test drive.
giles77 said:
And your girlfriend/wife/anyone who isn't a fellow car nut won't look like a tit getting in and out of it. Not something I care about personally but I'm sure it helps when you're discussing the expenditure.
BTW -congratulations to the two gents going to Geneva to register their interest. I'm insanely jealous but it in a good way. Perhaps let us know what it's like when you take delivery?
Got to agree with the first sentence, when getting my 6 foot 2 frame into my friends Elise it's like folding myself into a postbox. He doesn't seem to use it most days either, more a weekend toy. I think you should be able to use the 4C all the time.BTW -congratulations to the two gents going to Geneva to register their interest. I'm insanely jealous but it in a good way. Perhaps let us know what it's like when you take delivery?
The manual gearbox on his Elise seems a bit clonky too....
Andy
Forgot to add, have to agree the 4 cyl won't be the most exciting powerplant in the world, the V6 would be nice but heavy, so why not go the route of BMW and fit a 1.5-1.7 litre 3 turbo 3 pot? Three cylinder engines are rorty low down and have a mini 911 sound at the top end, character wise they knock socks off a 4 cyl. It would be lighter too.
Andy
Andy
Guvernator said:
^^^^ This. Hopefully they won't make a pigs ear of it and it will be a success. If they pull it off, it might just encourage other manufacturers to take note. While the Elise was a grounbreaking car, it was too compromised in certain areas to be a real viable choice for a lot of people. Hopefully this will take the basic Elise formula and make it more approachable for a wider audience. If other manufactuers jump on the bandwagon then all the better. I'd rather we had more cars of this type then just another boring Econobox.
Indeed. The VX220 Turbo was a step towards a more useable Elise. Bit more comfort, turbo engine etc.This car would be right up my street in a few years time (after it's depreciated a bit
), but with no manual, it'd unfortunately be a no go. A shame because I think it looks fantastic, and it'll probably drive really nicely, but an automatic only? Ghey!Dave
DJC said:
I use my wife as the average. She cares about how it looks, inside and out, does it have some "oomf" and comfort/ease of use.
Nobody in my experience gives a rats arse about NVH compared to those criteria and certainly not on a 15min test drive.
Strange. Everyone I know well enough to know is different. Nobody in my experience gives a rats arse about NVH compared to those criteria and certainly not on a 15min test drive.
This V6 thing aswell.
What V6?
Word to the wise people, Alfa dont make *that* V6 anymore, they havent for 5 or so years. The current V6 is a dirge filled bag of spanners that is little more than some tarted up piece of Vectra crap. So thanks but no thanks, Ill take the blown 4 pot and see what Autodelta can do.
And to add a little more common sense to the thread, the car Im expecting to buy will be 1000kg, 240ponies and £38k. But then i said that in the original thread when rumours of the concept first appeared anyway.
What V6?
Word to the wise people, Alfa dont make *that* V6 anymore, they havent for 5 or so years. The current V6 is a dirge filled bag of spanners that is little more than some tarted up piece of Vectra crap. So thanks but no thanks, Ill take the blown 4 pot and see what Autodelta can do.
And to add a little more common sense to the thread, the car Im expecting to buy will be 1000kg, 240ponies and £38k. But then i said that in the original thread when rumours of the concept first appeared anyway.
[quote=arguti]Much prefer the Alfa Diva from around 2006 - not only the V6 but more "ES30 SZ" with a touch of Enzo than Lotus if you know what I mean. The only Alfa in the last 20 years (apart from the 155) that I would go and buy tomorrow if it were in production. [quote]
They really should have made this. It was stunning and I much prefer the more angular and agressive approach on top of the more interesting engine spec.
I can see why they want to build on the 8C's styling success to create a new distinctive lineage. I'd imagine that the 8C Spyder went down a storm in the USA and has given Alfa the confidence to re-enter that market with an immediately recogniseable sibling.
The 4C reminds me of the Stradale (Tipo 33 I think?)
They really should have made this. It was stunning and I much prefer the more angular and agressive approach on top of the more interesting engine spec.
I can see why they want to build on the 8C's styling success to create a new distinctive lineage. I'd imagine that the 8C Spyder went down a storm in the USA and has given Alfa the confidence to re-enter that market with an immediately recogniseable sibling.
The 4C reminds me of the Stradale (Tipo 33 I think?)
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