RE: Alfa Romeo Reveals 4C Concept
Discussion
DJC said:
And to add a little more common sense to the thread, the car Im expecting to buy will be 1000kg, 240ponies and £38k. But then i said that in the original thread when rumours of the concept first appeared anyway.
In regards to declaring an interest/committing to buy, do you know what the deal is at Geneva?Just a thought - is the carbon tub there to ensure that any future Spider version is equally stiff and light without needing excessive and heavy bracing (or much redesign at all)? Thinking about their USA ambitions, the success of the 8C Spider and an inevitable demand for a 4C Spider. And on that note, what premium could you charge for a 4C Spider?
DJC said:
I use my wife as the average. She cares about how it looks, inside and out, does it have some "oomf" and comfort/ease of use.
Nobody in my experience gives a rats arse about NVH compared to those criteria and certainly not on a 15min test drive.
Going to have to disagree there! Your wife must be a very understanding woman! My 205 is loud and uncomfortable but it's bloody quick, and it's qualities tend to get mentioned in that order.Nobody in my experience gives a rats arse about NVH compared to those criteria and certainly not on a 15min test drive.
Most people nowadays want a car that is quiet. Than means no N, certainly not much V and they want a comfortable car too see your point above - i.e. no 'H'.
I think the priorities of customers for this Alfa are probably not the same as those of customers for a diesel Audi A3 or Ford S-Max. I should think that levels of induction and exhaust noise and of feedback through the controls which are entirely desirable to buyers of a car like this would be considered unacceptable in a mainstream car by people looking for quiet, practical, comfortable A-B transport.
otolith said:
I think the priorities of customers for this Alfa are probably not the same as those of customers for a diesel Audi A3 or Ford S-Max. I should think that levels of induction and exhaust noise and of feedback through the controls which are entirely desirable to buyers of a car like this would be considered unacceptable in a mainstream car by people looking for quiet, practical, comfortable A-B transport.
Indeed, which is why people are querying whether those same people really want an automatic gearbox and a turbocharged four-pot. arguti said:
Much prefer the Alfa Diva from around 2006 - not only the V6 but more "ES30 SZ" with a touch of Enzo than Lotus if you know what I mean. The only Alfa in the last 20 years (apart from the 155) that I would go and buy tomorrow if it were in production.
But this would probably cost a good deal more than the 4C (doors, glass, drivetrain), let's say £60-70k. Then everyone would complain that Alfa won't make a more attainable sports car....Also, if the Stratos sees the light of day then the Diva would be too close.
Perhaps Fiat are looking at some tiered branding using the same basic platform:
Abarth (stripped and manual)
Alfa 4C
Stratos (with V6)
Maybe they'll call the platform something like, I don't know, Versatile Vehicle Architecture?
kambites said:
Indeed, which is why people are querying whether those same people really want an automatic gearbox and a turbocharged four-pot.
I would imagine that both of those decisions are purely down to the necessity for this car to have good CO2 figures - it's a shame, but I think other powertrain options are ceasing to be viable under the current testing regime and ever tightening controls on (real, toxic) emissions and CO2 output. otolith said:
kambites said:
Indeed, which is why people are querying whether those same people really want an automatic gearbox and a turbocharged four-pot.
I would imagine that both of those decisions are purely down to the necessity for this car to have good CO2 figures - it's a shame, but I think other powertrain options are ceasing to be viable under the current testing regime and ever tightening controls on (real, toxic) emissions and CO2 output. 
The weight will be there too. But come on, making "clean" sports cars really pisses the greenies off
Oh knock it off Kam. Most of the folks whinging about "exhaust noise" on here probably havent owned a decent multi-cylinder car pre-cats and as such havent a scooby what a decent sounding car is anyway! Look around ph and you see ppl saying how good a BMW 328 or 330 sounds and almost everyone on this thread talking about "they should put the Alfa V6 in it" have utterly ignored the minor point that the b
d thing doesnt exist anymore! (Yes, yes Jamie, I know you are on here, I did say "almost everyone") The 4 pot K-series in the Elise (or in the MG either) never sounded that good and nobody has ever given a damn about that because both models have sold like half priced crack throughout their lifespans, inc when the Elise went to Toyota 4 pot power. Whilst Im on my 4 pot soapbox, lets switch it to 4 pot turbo power, cos cor blimey wouldnt just know it but Ive got some experience of Fiat/Alfa 4 pot turbos aswell. I "loved" the sound of mine and frankly the bugger was addictive. But then hey, that was pre-cat aswell, you know back when cars *actually* sounded good anyway as opposed to people thinking the induction noise on an accountants CSL was worth getting your knickers wet over.
Truv...drop me an email. Ill happily inform you how Alfa go about depressing you with their ordering process
d thing doesnt exist anymore! (Yes, yes Jamie, I know you are on here, I did say "almost everyone") The 4 pot K-series in the Elise (or in the MG either) never sounded that good and nobody has ever given a damn about that because both models have sold like half priced crack throughout their lifespans, inc when the Elise went to Toyota 4 pot power. Whilst Im on my 4 pot soapbox, lets switch it to 4 pot turbo power, cos cor blimey wouldnt just know it but Ive got some experience of Fiat/Alfa 4 pot turbos aswell. I "loved" the sound of mine and frankly the bugger was addictive. But then hey, that was pre-cat aswell, you know back when cars *actually* sounded good anyway as opposed to people thinking the induction noise on an accountants CSL was worth getting your knickers wet over.Truv...drop me an email. Ill happily inform you how Alfa go about depressing you with their ordering process
I think it's fair comment that four pots sound rubbish compared to even modern engines with more cylinders - and including the ones fitted by Lotus to Elises. It's a sacrifice you make for the sake of lightness, though. If this ends up substantially over a ton, then it may as well have a proper engine, but if it's going to be properly lightweight then the four pot is the appropriate solution.
My missus went to an Alfa dealer today and the senior sales guy seemed highly sceptical about (i) the 2012 date for any cars that come to the UK and (ii) the carbon fibre tub making it to the production version. He suggested 2013 before anything comes to the UK, and that it will be priced (in today's money) somewhere between 35 and 40k. And they are not taking orders.
Would be interested to hear whether those at the stand in Geneva were able to place an order.
Would be interested to hear whether those at the stand in Geneva were able to place an order.
Jonara said:
My missus went to an Alfa dealer today and the senior sales guy seemed highly sceptical about (i) the 2012 date for any cars that come to the UK and (ii) the carbon fibre tub making it to the production version. He suggested 2013 before anything comes to the UK, and that it will be priced (in today's money) somewhere between 35 and 40k. And they are not taking orders.
The launch/delivery date probably sounds right, doesn't it? Late 2012 for Europe, a few months later for UK. The Giulietta was the same, and the MiTo, Brera, 159, Spider...The price seems to match what's been bandied about, too.
zakelwe said:
For the billionth time it is not an automatic.
Then why does Alfa's own configurator for the Mito give you the option for "manual" for an H-pattern with a clutch pedal ; or "auto" for this gearbox. Even Alfa call the damned thing an auto!Edited by kambites on Thursday 3rd March 16:37
If I'm on the lookout for a new car in 2013 this Alfa will probably be my first port of call, some minor gripes can be adjusted with some aftermarket parts, if recent form is anything to go by it will need new suspension.
The looks will have grown on me a little more by then, and I have no problem with it having an automated gear change as I have no real passion for pumping a clutch pedal. As someone said, you have to own an Alfa at some point...
The looks will have grown on me a little more by then, and I have no problem with it having an automated gear change as I have no real passion for pumping a clutch pedal. As someone said, you have to own an Alfa at some point...
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