RE: PH Investigates: Ginetta's Road Cars

[Podie]

carl carlson said:

Herman Toothrot said:

If the G40 ends up at £37K like has been mentioned several times in this thread it'll be £10K more than a base Elise. You could buy the base Elise and drop it off at a Link-up dealer and have it Honda'd for basically the same money.

I could go out today and buy a K series S2 for 10K, spend a further 15K on a honda SC/CC set up and fly past any 40k+ exige for the grand price of 25K!

Comparing a second hand modified car to a new one isn't exactly a fair comparison though.

[tim2100]

Podie said:

carl carlson said:

Herman Toothrot said:

If the G40 ends up at £37K like has been mentioned several times in this thread it'll be £10K more than a base Elise. You could buy the base Elise and drop it off at a Link-up dealer and have it Honda'd for basically the same money.

I could go out today and buy a K series S2 for 10K, spend a further 15K on a honda SC/CC set up and fly past any 40k+ exige for the grand price of 25K!

Comparing a second hand modified car to a new one isn't exactly a fair comparison though.

But Herman was comparing it to a new modified car, which isn't a fair comparison either!

[otolith]

Herman Toothrot said:

otolith said:

Base price for an Elise is now £29,230 for the 134bhp 1.6 - if with the 2.0 Duratec this can be lighter and more powerful, mid 30's might not be unreasonable.

group lotus said:

It’s pocket pleasing too, at £27,500 / €34,450* / CHF48,900, the Elise Club Racer marks the new entry level sports car from Lotus.

If the G40 ends up at £37K like has been mentioned several times in this thread it'll be £10K more than a base Elise. You could buy the base Elise and drop it off at a Link-up dealer and have it Honda'd for basically the same money.

Is that how cheap the CR is? My copy of AutoCar doesn't list it. So about £28,000 once you've added the soft top back in. Yes, you could buy that, tear up the warranty and modify it, but you could have said the same versus buying a recent R or SC. Or, instead of a 28,000 pound 1.6 Elise, you could buy a £20,000 MX-5 and give BBR £5k to supercharge it to 235bhp. I'd have thought most people planning heavy modification would start with a used car, though.

The G40 looks as if it will be around the same price and performance level as the R was, which doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

[Miura Anjin]

stuckmojo said:

225bhp/tonne then?

That's pretty good.

I like that car a lot.

For 30,000?

How about a 220bhp/ton 1.6L Caterham Academy for 10grand less?

[otolith]

Miura Anjin said:

stuckmojo said:

225bhp/tonne then?

That's pretty good.

I like that car a lot.

For 30,000?

How about a 220bhp/ton 1.6L Caterham Academy for 10grand less?

How about a motorcycle for ten grand less again?

[Cotty]

Miura Anjin said:

How about a 220bhp/ton 1.6L Caterham Academy for 10grand less?

With no boot to speak of. I don't believe Caterham's come with a roof or a FIA cage as standard.

[DonkeyApple]

Cotty said:

With no boot to speak of. I don't believe Caterham's come with a roof or a FIA cage as standard.

They do seem to come with a beard and a remarkably ugly wife though.

[stuckmojo]

Miura Anjin said:

For 30,000?

How about a 220bhp/ton 1.6L Caterham Academy for 10grand less?

Ok, but the Ginetta seems to be a car you can probably live with as a daily driver too. With the Caterham, it's a bit too hardcore for me.

[Jellinek]

julian64 said:

Earlier on chap was asking about the sort of styling that woud improve ginetta to the next level. Since then I've been trying to think of an example to give.

If there is a car out there that is similar in terms of size and niche that I would say has that sparkle that one would expect of a drop dead gorgeous contemporary design I give you the new alfa C4.

Don't know what its engine is, but before you even turn the key you could spend most of the day just drooling over it.

Edited by julian64 on Wednesday 23 March 17:26

Hmmm... a pretty car, but not destined to be a classic beauty imho. Too many bulges, strakes, vents and creases that typify almost all new sports cars being released at the mo.

I hope the road going versions of the G40 and 50/55 will have a more unique and downright stunning style when production starts, it is after all about the most important facet of buying a car. Lets hope they do get it right too, I'd love to a british marque recapture the ground left vacant by TVR and Lotus of late.

[grahamw48]

I was going to post something about it being an Elise clone, but actually I think that Alfa IS a very good looking car, and in fact more subtle than the Elise.

[Miura Anjin]

Cotty said:

Miura Anjin said:

How about a 220bhp/ton 1.6L Caterham Academy for 10grand less?

With no boot to speak of. I don't believe Caterham's come with a roof or a FIA cage as standard.

The Academy I mentioned comes with an FIA approved six point cage, side impact protection and honeycomb fuel cell. Plastic roof is extra, and keeps most, but not all, of the weather out - much like the roof, windows and doors of most Ginettas

Boot can take a crash helmet, racing suit and boots, torque wrench, and a few other bits and bobs. No space for four extra wheels and tyres no - but you'd never need them. I takes over a year's worth of racing to kill the originals!

I don't see the point of this car at all. Not as "hard core" as a Seven. Not as refined as an Elise. And a damned site more expensive than the upcoming Toyobaru - or so we are led to believe.

[grahamw48]

Always nice to have a selection to suit all tastes, budgets and applications though.

For example, in the 60s you could have an Elan or a Seven, and from the same maker.

[braddo]

Jelenik said:

Hoorah to that! Anybody else fed up with all the super agressive, macho styling with strakes and creases at every turn?

Yep! i feel as if almost every new car on sale is over-styled.

Ginetta should keep the G40 styled as it is.

[otolith]

Miura Anjin said:

I don't see the point of this car at all. Not as "hard core" as a Seven. Not as refined as an Elise. And a damned site more expensive than the upcoming Toyobaru - or so we are led to believe.

I think the point is that Lotus are soon going to be away wooing metrosexual Boxster buyers with the next Elise, leaving the current Elise slot vacant (and at the moment, the Elise slot is only partly occupied because there are no high performance variants).

[Fittster]

otolith said:

Miura Anjin said:

I don't see the point of this car at all. Not as "hard core" as a Seven. Not as refined as an Elise. And a damned site more expensive than the upcoming Toyobaru - or so we are led to believe.

I think the point is that Lotus are soon going to be away wooing metrosexual Boxster buyers with the next Elise, leaving the current Elise slot vacant (and at the moment, the Elise slot is only partly occupied because there are no high performance variants).

Exige & 2-Eleven??

[otolith]

Fittster said:

Exige & 2-Eleven??

Both use the 1.8 engine which is no longer emissions compliant - there may still be cars in the pipeline, and you may still be able to buy them in other markets, but as I understand it the only cars you can currently order from Lotus in the UK are the Evora and the 1.6 Elise.

[Jellinek]

braddo said:

Jelenik said:

Hoorah to that! Anybody else fed up with all the super agressive, macho styling with strakes and creases at every turn?

Yep! i feel as if almost every new car on sale is over-styled.

Ginetta should keep the G40 styled as it is.

They could keep the style unchanged as it is by all accounts a competantly styled car, but I think there is definitely an opportunity here for Ginetta to evolve the shape of the road car into something really special.
The nose bonnet and roof of the car are all very 60's curves and hark back to Ginetta's heritage, whereas the flanks and tail are more about modern planar surfaces and sharp creases. If they could integrate the two "halves" of the car a little more, I think the overall shape would come over as much more coherent.

I personally would like to see them move away from the more slab sided, angular look and develop a more contemporary set of curves over the whole car. Lowering the roof line (which currently has a sort of bubble feel to me) may be possible if you don't package a driver with a helmet, and would definitely be a step in the right direction. Does anyone know if the glass on the car is bespoke for Ginetta?

[ewenm]

Jellinek said:

They could keep the style unchanged as it is by all accounts a competantly styled car, but I think there is definitely an opportunity here for Ginetta to evolve the shape of the road car into something really special.
The nose bonnet and roof of the car are all very 60's curves and hark back to Ginetta's heritage, whereas the flanks and tail are more about modern planar surfaces and sharp creases. If they could integrate the two "halves" of the car a little more, I think the overall shape would come over as much more coherent.

I personally would like to see them move away from the more slab sided, angular look and develop a more contemporary set of curves over the whole car. Lowering the roof line (which currently has a sort of bubble feel to me) may be possible if you don't package a driver with a helmet, and would definitely be a step in the right direction. Does anyone know if the glass on the car is bespoke for Ginetta?

The car is aimed at track day drivers though, so fitting a driver in a helmet is a key feature.

[Cotty]

Miura Anjin said:

I don't see the point of this car at all. Not as "hard core" as a Seven.

Why do you want it "hard core"? I like the fact you could probably use the G40 every day. Anyway whats more hard core than a race car on the street.

[Jellinek]

ewenm said:

Jellinek said:

I personally would like to see them move away from the more slab sided, angular look and develop a more contemporary set of curves over the whole car. Lowering the roof line (which currently has a sort of bubble feel to me) may be possible if you don't package a driver with a helmet, and would definitely be a step in the right direction. Does anyone know if the glass on the car is bespoke for Ginetta?

The car is aimed at track day drivers though, so fitting a driver in a helmet is a key feature.

Reading back through the thread, I see what you mean. I guess if Ginetta are limiting themselves to 300 cars per annum (the IVA threshold I think?) and they were producing about 50 race cars a year (estimate based on race series numbers), they would only need to sell 250 road/track day cars to reach the target volumes. Caterham produces in the order of about 700-800 cars per year I think, so I would expect the Garforth operation would have no trouble making up the difference with only track day cars. A shame though... to be honest I was gagging to see the full road-going soft top version!