Discussion
Russian billionaire Vladamir Antanov isn’t done with Saab yet. Forced out of the Saab deal when General Motors sold off the Swedish automaker to Spyker, he recently re-acquired the Spkyer brand from the combined Saab Spyker Automobiles through a British coachbuilder he’s heavily invested in.
Now Antanov is stirring up trouble suggesting Saab might miss its sales target of 80,000 vehicles. In a recent interview with Swedish newspaper Dagens Industi, he said that Saab was more likely to achieve sales of 60,000 to 65,000 units for 2011.
Saab boss and Spyker founder Victor Muller has fought back, claiming that the original sales targets would in fact be met.
Antanov then went on to cast doubt on Spyker’s financing, commenting that without the current loan from the European Investment Bank Saab could go bankrupt in, “just a few days.”
But why would the EIB refuse the loan? It’s not a stretch to suggest that Antanov wants back in, and a change in ownership or control would require both the EIB and the Swedish government to sign off on the deal – and both parties might have a problem with Antanov’s alleged ties to the Russian mafia. Conveniently, Antanov happens to be well funded and could front some of the necessary funds, but even he admits coming up with enough to pay back the loan would require additional partners.
Now Antanov is stirring up trouble suggesting Saab might miss its sales target of 80,000 vehicles. In a recent interview with Swedish newspaper Dagens Industi, he said that Saab was more likely to achieve sales of 60,000 to 65,000 units for 2011.
Saab boss and Spyker founder Victor Muller has fought back, claiming that the original sales targets would in fact be met.
Antanov then went on to cast doubt on Spyker’s financing, commenting that without the current loan from the European Investment Bank Saab could go bankrupt in, “just a few days.”
But why would the EIB refuse the loan? It’s not a stretch to suggest that Antanov wants back in, and a change in ownership or control would require both the EIB and the Swedish government to sign off on the deal – and both parties might have a problem with Antanov’s alleged ties to the Russian mafia. Conveniently, Antanov happens to be well funded and could front some of the necessary funds, but even he admits coming up with enough to pay back the loan would require additional partners.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Not that I would like to suggest that they might be running it under this model either.
Running a car company the ROVER way.
1.) Claim to be able to turn around failing carmaker.
2.) Recieve huge amounts of EU/government money to help.
3.) Pay yourself a very tidy wage out of said funds making sure that your mates get nice big consultants fees.
4.) Promise the world with regard to new models.
5.) Facelift all the old ones.
6.) Make sure that you don't pay any taxes so that when it all goes wrong and the government want their money you can claim they are the bad guys & are trying to close you down.
7.) Go bust owing large sums to various suppliers who then go bust with you.
8.) Walk away, washing your hands, saying not my fault: Under investment by previous owners, changing market place, hidden debts, no help from government.
9.) Fly away somewhere sunny.
10.) Relax.
Not that's whats happening to Saab of course.
Did anyone else spot that the company in the UK who Spyker sold the sportscar arm of their company to is actually owned by one of the directors of Saab/Spyker...
You are right. I forgot to mention selling anything worth having to a company you own seperately. Running a car company the ROVER way.
1.) Claim to be able to turn around failing carmaker.
2.) Recieve huge amounts of EU/government money to help.
3.) Pay yourself a very tidy wage out of said funds making sure that your mates get nice big consultants fees.
4.) Promise the world with regard to new models.
5.) Facelift all the old ones.
6.) Make sure that you don't pay any taxes so that when it all goes wrong and the government want their money you can claim they are the bad guys & are trying to close you down.
7.) Go bust owing large sums to various suppliers who then go bust with you.
8.) Walk away, washing your hands, saying not my fault: Under investment by previous owners, changing market place, hidden debts, no help from government.
9.) Fly away somewhere sunny.
10.) Relax.
Not that's whats happening to Saab of course.
Did anyone else spot that the company in the UK who Spyker sold the sportscar arm of their company to is actually owned by one of the directors of Saab/Spyker...
We also missed out the advantages of selling stuff to your wife if things get really desperate. So long as she is loyal/ easy to disposable of.
From jan 2011 to prsent Saab had the highest UK sales increase of any car maker at 253% 
Also the Saab 9-3 TTiD 180 Saab is the most powerful sub-120g/km CO2 car.
CO2/hp ratio better than any other four-cylinder, and therefore the lowest CO2 per horsepower of any four-cylinder currently on sale
Also the Saab 9-3 TTiD 180 Saab is the most powerful sub-120g/km CO2 car.
CO2/hp ratio better than any other four-cylinder, and therefore the lowest CO2 per horsepower of any four-cylinder currently on sale
doogz said:
Will be a shame if it's true, they've built some interesting cars over the years.
I remember my Dad bringin home a 99 Turbo for a weekend when it first came out. As a kid, I thought the turbo lag was hilarious. My Dad bought it fun for a weekend, but something he couldn't live with. Then he bought an incredibly dull Audi 100 instead.
Update.
Saab have asked for part of the EU "overdaft" that they and GM negoitated as part of the sell off. They would appear to be taking 140million euros out of the 400million fund that they have. In running a car company, anyone got any idea how long that would last? I wouldn't have a clue.
The company that make the dashboards for Saabs have now refused to deliver any more parts claiming they haven't been paid.
There is a theory going around the Mueller is trying to push the company to the brink of collapse so that his mate Antonov has to be let in with a large amount of capital to save the day. Who can say?
But I now think there is a more pressing issue. How much longer is the dealer network going to put up with this? They're not selling any cars. There is no new product on the horizon and unless someone finds a couple of billion there won't be. There is no manufacturer advertising to tell anyone about the products they actually have or in the 9-5 Estates case have just recieved. Lot of people still think Saab went bust at the time when GM sold them to Spyker. With all this bickering and non-payment of bills & their long standing CEO quitting last week, who is there to sort this mess out? Mr Mueller would seem to be strangely silent.
Some of the posts on here, mainly to do with the supposed interest of Richard Branson are priceless;
http://www.saabsunited.com/
"Haven't I seen a picture of Richard Branson driving a Saab 900 Turbo back in the 80s?"
"If Richard Branson does come in, maybe they'll name the Virgin spacecraft the Aero,"
"If Richard Branson does come in, maybe we'll have a Virgin WRC team,"
"If Richard Branson does come in, maybe we can lend him some of our engineers to help out the Virgin F1 team as they aren't doing to well at the moment,"
With regard to the last one: maybe if your engineers were any good, your cars might have been a bit better and possibly you might have sold a few more. And speaking of selling a few more;
"We should stop discounting the cars so much, its de-valuing the brand,"
God bless those boys & girls on that site but they really do sound like the bunch of people running round after Brian waving their shoes, "He's the messiah! No, he's the messiah!" Any messiah will do. I really wish I had faith in something, anything as much as those guys do. It does literaly seem like a religion to them. I reckon the majority of CofE members have less faith than them. I must have a big hollow hole at the centre of my soul.
Why am I bothered? Saab was a large part of my life of nine years and I had a lot of fun working with them. Watching the death knells of a once great company makes me very sad. Especially when IMHO the time to do anything about it past a long, long time ago & people just can't accept it. It should have closed when GM called time. The whole Spyker business is just embarassing for all concerned.
.
Saab have asked for part of the EU "overdaft" that they and GM negoitated as part of the sell off. They would appear to be taking 140million euros out of the 400million fund that they have. In running a car company, anyone got any idea how long that would last? I wouldn't have a clue.
The company that make the dashboards for Saabs have now refused to deliver any more parts claiming they haven't been paid.
There is a theory going around the Mueller is trying to push the company to the brink of collapse so that his mate Antonov has to be let in with a large amount of capital to save the day. Who can say?
But I now think there is a more pressing issue. How much longer is the dealer network going to put up with this? They're not selling any cars. There is no new product on the horizon and unless someone finds a couple of billion there won't be. There is no manufacturer advertising to tell anyone about the products they actually have or in the 9-5 Estates case have just recieved. Lot of people still think Saab went bust at the time when GM sold them to Spyker. With all this bickering and non-payment of bills & their long standing CEO quitting last week, who is there to sort this mess out? Mr Mueller would seem to be strangely silent.
Some of the posts on here, mainly to do with the supposed interest of Richard Branson are priceless;
http://www.saabsunited.com/
"Haven't I seen a picture of Richard Branson driving a Saab 900 Turbo back in the 80s?"
"If Richard Branson does come in, maybe they'll name the Virgin spacecraft the Aero,"
"If Richard Branson does come in, maybe we'll have a Virgin WRC team,"
"If Richard Branson does come in, maybe we can lend him some of our engineers to help out the Virgin F1 team as they aren't doing to well at the moment,"
With regard to the last one: maybe if your engineers were any good, your cars might have been a bit better and possibly you might have sold a few more. And speaking of selling a few more;
"We should stop discounting the cars so much, its de-valuing the brand,"
God bless those boys & girls on that site but they really do sound like the bunch of people running round after Brian waving their shoes, "He's the messiah! No, he's the messiah!" Any messiah will do. I really wish I had faith in something, anything as much as those guys do. It does literaly seem like a religion to them. I reckon the majority of CofE members have less faith than them. I must have a big hollow hole at the centre of my soul.
Why am I bothered? Saab was a large part of my life of nine years and I had a lot of fun working with them. Watching the death knells of a once great company makes me very sad. Especially when IMHO the time to do anything about it past a long, long time ago & people just can't accept it. It should have closed when GM called time. The whole Spyker business is just embarassing for all concerned.
. Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Thursday 31st March 17:38
Fittster said:
So they sold 3 cars in Jan and 10 in March.
Not quite. In the first two months of the year they increased the number of vehicles registered but not neccesarily sold by 189%!!! 
Up from 212 to 612...
To put that in some form of perspective.
Audi: 12085
BMW: 12303
Merc; 7856
Ok maybe thats a little unfair, I mean those were the companies they used to be in competition with. Maybe we should look at;
SEAT; 3220
Skoda: 4751
Volvo: 2856
ahh ok....
but the good news is!
Lexus: 542
Infiniti: 46
Sad. But then again those Lexus figures are also gob smackingly bad, though I suspect not for long with the hybrid Kylie coming.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Fittster said:
So they sold 3 cars in Jan and 10 in March.
Not quite. In the first two months of the year they increased the number of vehicles registered but not neccesarily sold by 189%!!! Up from 212 to 612...
To put that in some form of perspective.
Audi: 12085
BMW: 12303
Merc; 7856
Ok maybe thats a little unfair, I mean those were the companies they used to be in competition with. Maybe we should look at;
SEAT; 3220
Skoda: 4751
Volvo: 2856
ahh ok....
but the good news is!
Lexus: 542
Infiniti: 46
Sad. But then again those Lexus figures are also gob smackingly bad, though I suspect not for long with the hybrid Kylie coming.
And the new Lexus where Kylie is driving at 70kmh through a city centre
(43secs in)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F5cDXCwXNU
tali1 said:
Fox- said:
tali1 said:
From jan 2011 to prsent Saab had the highest UK sales increase of any car maker at 253%
Not hard to have silly percentage increases when your sales volumes are so small. If you sell 1 car you can double sales by selling another..Fittster said:
tali1 said:
From jan 2011 to prsent Saab had the highest UK sales increase of any car maker at 253%
So they sold 3 cars in Jan and 10 in March.Deva Link said:
Miocene said:
That is shocking by Lexus!
Lexus is a pretty marginal brand now - a lot of their dealerships have closed. Porsche sold more cars in the UK than Lexus did last year.http://www.motortrader.com/latest-news/lexus-top-u...
Edited by tali1 on Thursday 31st March 19:40
Deva Link said:
Lexus is a pretty marginal brand now - a lot of their dealerships have closed. Porsche sold more cars in the UK than Lexus did last year.
Indeed, since the IS 200 tailed off it seems they've slowly disappeared. Which is a shame, as they were an interesting alternative to Mercedes style luxury cruising. Zod said:
Slade Alive said:
No one here knows anything, except Zod's dad couldn't drive a 99 Turbo!
Who are you, Stig Blomqvist?Joking aside, the lag was hardly an issue considering the overall performance offered. That many drove them not understanding how to wind them up and keep 'em cooking, expecting they just floor the throttle, almost certainly never experienced their real capability. But they did help cement a not so well deserved criticism. This was the late 70's let's not forget. What was better by comparison? I do know one driven properly even now would hand many of today's so called performance offerings their arse.
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