RE: Junior Jaguar And XF 'RS' Projects Confirmed

[ZesPak]

Make the XF in hatchback (without changing the styling) and it'll be my next car.

Brilliant cars, love them so much more than a 5-series.

[gherkins]

If you consider Jaguar to be Indian, then you have to add up where the shareholders come from. Daimler AG (Mercedes), for example, is only 28.2% German if you do this. We live in a multinational world.

[gherkins]

PhilJames said:

...Of course the Germans think they rule the world and what self respecting patriotic German would not try and stake their claim.

Absolutely - the mindset over here (Munich) is incredible - probably why they do so well. Unlike us Brits, Germans really think they are the best in the world at everything and all the problems in the world (e.g. the financial crisis) are caused by everyone else - especially the Americans and Brits. The only ones that don't seem to think like this are those who have lived abroad and have seen the light. The media here supports this view - unlike British media that criticises everything.

[jamesuk28]

Well if its going to be an X type replacement I hope they make hot / M3 version in a similair vein to the S type R ( performancewise not lookswise! )

[A Scotsman]

fatboy b said:

A Scotsman said:

I'm not being unfair just factual. Jaguar is wholly owned by TATA. TATA is Indian and headquartered in Mumbai.

Yes. A lot of ostensibly UK companies are financed by foreign money. That doesn't make me proud. That makes me wonder what the hell those numpties in the City actually do and why we're so idiotic as to give these things up so easily.

IP? It's owned by TATA. Doesn't matter where it's created.

Oh do change the record you idiot.

Thanks for your considered and intelligent response. I'm incredibly impressed by your wit and insight.

[fatboy b]

A Scotsman said:

fatboy b said:

A Scotsman said:

I'm not being unfair just factual. Jaguar is wholly owned by TATA. TATA is Indian and headquartered in Mumbai.

Yes. A lot of ostensibly UK companies are financed by foreign money. That doesn't make me proud. That makes me wonder what the hell those numpties in the City actually do and why we're so idiotic as to give these things up so easily.

IP? It's owned by TATA. Doesn't matter where it's created.

Oh do change the record you idiot.

Thanks for your considered and intelligent response. I'm incredibly impressed by your wit and insight.

Thankyou - now go change that record, there's a good chap.

[Hellbound]

vintageracer01 said:

PhilJames said:

MSTRBKR said:

No way. Designed and manufactured in Britain = British in my book. Money is just money.

Spot on mate!

It's not dillusion when I walk into the factory at Gaydon or drive past the plant on the Oxford ring road, especially when pretty much everyone who creates the cars is british. Of course the Germans think they rule the world and what self respecting patriotic German would not try and stake their claim.

Jag is British you try and move it all to India and see what comes out of Mumbai!!!

YEP. Spot on!

GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Fiat and Skoda all manufacture cars in India at the moment. It's a massive market that's growing year on year. Don't hold your breath regarding Jaguar and Land Rover production remaining solely in the UK. Sooner or later manufacturing WILL go to China, India and South America. As long as we keep designing and building some of them I guess it doesn't matter.

[Mercutio]

I've just joined this topic...and I honestly cannot believe what I've been reading about Jaguar not being British because of Tata ownership.

Jaguar is a British luxury car manufacturer. End of story. It's headquarters are in Britain, the cars are designed here, the workers are here, the manufacture of the vehicles takes place here.

Who owns the shares and holds the purse strings is neither here nor there. Is Manchester United an American soccer club? Or is Liverpool? Is Chelsea Russian? The point is simple: the clubs may employ foreigners on the pitch, they may be owned by foreign oligarchs, but the league they play in and the place the club is situated is in England.

Jaguar's British identity cannot be stripped from it just because an Indian car company has swallowed the marque into its portfolio. So was Jaguar an American firm before that? If Fiat Group buy it in ten years time, does it become Italian?

I'm sorry sir, but your argument is fatuous, and was clearly designed to rile people. I for one am proud of Jaguar's heritage. And even if the majority of manufacturing eventually takes place in Mumbai, it will remain British in identity to the end of its days.

[anonymous-user]

Hellbound said:

vintageracer01 said:

PhilJames said:

MSTRBKR said:

No way. Designed and manufactured in Britain = British in my book. Money is just money.

Spot on mate!

It's not dillusion when I walk into the factory at Gaydon or drive past the plant on the Oxford ring road, especially when pretty much everyone who creates the cars is british. Of course the Germans think they rule the world and what self respecting patriotic German would not try and stake their claim.

Jag is British you try and move it all to India and see what comes out of Mumbai!!!

YEP. Spot on!

GM, Volkswagen, Toyota, Mercedes Benz, Audi, Fiat and Skoda all manufacture cars in India at the moment. It's a massive market that's growing year on year. Don't hold your breath regarding Jaguar and Land Rover production remaining solely in the UK. Sooner or later manufacturing WILL go to China, India and South America. As long as we keep designing and building some of them I guess it doesn't matter.

Maybe later, but not sooner. They seem to be expanding their design and manufacture workforce in the UK.

[renrut]

I'd quite like to see a new small car from Jag as long as it keeps its exclusive/premium level which IMO Audi and BM have lost a bit of by trying to offer every car to everyone. Hanging onto that while still selling large volumes will be hard. IMO that can only be done with price but a very good product to back it up. As long as it doesn't look like that monstrosity they posted up a while back as the 'new x-type'

I don't think they'll bother with a manual as stated, auto with flappy paddles an option I think. They don't make a manual car any more because their autos are good enough. They dropped the manual from the north american S-type pretty early on as its sales were very poor. I don't know what the X-type was like in terms of autos vs manuals but I'd imagine similar.

Even a small roadster or coupe will be good with the flappy paddles IMO, esp if it allows them to pull some tricks and get it in a low CO2 bracket. Something like a Baby XK with a small sub 3.0L V6 would be awesome and take on the Z4/TT quite nicely especially if it can be a looker like the XK.

[Slade Alive]

With all this talk of British this Indian that, is it not the case that manufacture is a bit of a broad sword? Surely Jaguars are assembled here, rather than manufactured here? Just curious. As you were.

[A Scotsman]

Mercutio said:

Who owns the shares and holds the purse strings is neither here nor there.

Try telling Mr Tata that and see how far you get!

[Chris-R]

Slade Alive said:

With all this talk of British this Indian that, is it not the case that manufacture is a bit of a broad sword? Surely Jaguars are assembled here, rather than manufactured here? Just curious. As you were.

Can we stop this before somebody asks where Jaguar's aluminium is smelted..?

[DeadMeat_UK]

renrut said:

I'd quite like to see a new small car from Jag as long as it keeps its exclusive/premium level which IMO Audi and BM have lost a bit of by trying to offer every car to everyone. Hanging onto that while still selling large volumes will be hard. IMO that can only be done with price but a very good product to back it up. As long as it doesn't look like that monstrosity they posted up a while back as the 'new x-type'

I don't think they'll bother with a manual as stated, auto with flappy paddles an option I think. They don't make a manual car any more because their autos are good enough. They dropped the manual from the north american S-type pretty early on as its sales were very poor. I don't know what the X-type was like in terms of autos vs manuals but I'd imagine similar.

Even a small roadster or coupe will be good with the flappy paddles IMO, esp if it allows them to pull some tricks and get it in a low CO2 bracket. Something like a Baby XK with a small sub 3.0L V6 would be awesome and take on the Z4/TT quite nicely especially if it can be a looker like the XK.

Oi, do you mind, that post appears to actually be on-topic, AND discussing the actual cars. You're just making everyone else look bad

Agree with you on the flappies.

[DrRazzle]

A Scotsman said:

Try telling Mr Tata that and see how far you get!

Troll

[ewenm]

Chris-R said:

Can we stop this before somebody asks where Jaguar's aluminium is smelted..?

I'd want to know the full provenance of the air in the tyres before I could decide on a nationality for Jaguar. I mean, imagine if that air had drifted over from France in a southerly? Jaguar - French!

[renrut]

Slade Alive said:

With all this talk of British this Indian that, is it not the case that manufacture is a bit of a broad sword? Surely Jaguars are assembled here, rather than manufactured here? Just curious. As you were.

Well where do you stop with that line of thought? you'd have to do a breakdown of the raw materials - what do you do for the steel? It was probably recycled in a different country to where it was originally mined from so which do you choose? For the microchips that go in the electronics do you pick the origin of the chip or the raw materials in the silicon wafer?

Personally I consider Jag to be British as they have something British about them but I can't put my finger on it. In the same way I consider Lamborghini to be Italian and Volvo to be Swedish. They have something of their national stereotype in their DNA. God listen to me I sound like some sort of marketing type.

[ZesPak]

renrut said:

...

Personally I consider Jag to be British as they have something British about them but I can't put my finger on it. In the same way I consider Lamborghini to be Italian and Volvo to be Swedish. They have something of their national stereotype in their DNA. God listen to me I sound like some sort of marketing type.

reminds me of james may's review of the 159, everytime he mentions "heart/soul/charisma", put a pound in the can

[jagfan2]

Chris-R said:

Slade Alive said:

With all this talk of British this Indian that, is it not the case that manufacture is a bit of a broad sword? Surely Jaguars are assembled here, rather than manufactured here? Just curious. As you were.

Can we stop this before somebody asks where Jaguar's aluminium is smelted..?

Actually funny you should say that, as look who owns what was British steel then Corus, now http://www.tatasteelautomotive.com/en/ , who do most of the UK automotive steel body and chassis panels

Engines are mainly produced in Brigend, Wales using UK sourced materials, as are most of the bodies, depending on how you count it (weight/value/volume/by component) most JLR vehicles are well over 50% UK sourced and assembled

[renrut]

DeadMeat_UK said:

renrut said:

I'd quite like to see a new small car from Jag as long as it keeps its exclusive/premium level which IMO Audi and BM have lost a bit of by trying to offer every car to everyone. Hanging onto that while still selling large volumes will be hard. IMO that can only be done with price but a very good product to back it up. As long as it doesn't look like that monstrosity they posted up a while back as the 'new x-type'

I don't think they'll bother with a manual as stated, auto with flappy paddles an option I think. They don't make a manual car any more because their autos are good enough. They dropped the manual from the north american S-type pretty early on as its sales were very poor. I don't know what the X-type was like in terms of autos vs manuals but I'd imagine similar.

Even a small roadster or coupe will be good with the flappy paddles IMO, esp if it allows them to pull some tricks and get it in a low CO2 bracket. Something like a Baby XK with a small sub 3.0L V6 would be awesome and take on the Z4/TT quite nicely especially if it can be a looker like the XK.

Oi, do you mind, that post appears to actually be on-topic, AND discussing the actual cars. You're just making everyone else look bad

Agree with you on the flappies.

Shhh! I'm hiding! You'll draw attention to people talking about cars...