RE: An 'M' For All Reasons?
Discussion
Fox- said:
This article seems to further perpetuate the myth that all there is to affordability is whether you can afford the purchase price.
As long as people continue to beleive this, we'll continue to see scabby and badly looked after examples of once fantastic cars.
I'd agree, this is the concern. Shoe string budget + ///M = As long as people continue to beleive this, we'll continue to see scabby and badly looked after examples of once fantastic cars.
I've seen a lot of tatty E36 M3s of late.
adycav said:
Article said:
Surprisingly, while we were talking to Andrew about the E36 M3 he suggested that you might want to look for a later 330 diesel instead. He explained: 'You'd be amazed in real-world driving just how close they are performance-wise. In fact there are some in-gear scenarios where the diesel might actually be quicker than the M3."
Oh god what did you print that for?The diesel bores will be quoting that (or their paraphrased version of it) until the end of bloody time.
That e39 m5 looks like one I saw in Leicester six months ago. Wish I could remember from whom . Rac inspection showed diff and flywheel shagged as suspected. Despite
"immaculate and perfect" description. £3k bill at BMW rates. Tossed kept my 200 deposit even though subject tom inspection. High hopes for car sales karma. Still great cars but eyes open always.
"immaculate and perfect" description. £3k bill at BMW rates. Tossed kept my 200 deposit even though subject tom inspection. High hopes for car sales karma. Still great cars but eyes open always.
I looked for an E36 M3 last year to replace my FD3S as my new daily, because it promised rear wheel drive fun but with back seats and back doors and didnt do only 13mpg and scare the neighbours. Sadly anything below £4500 was junk that others in this thread have correctly stated had been bought on the cheap and not maintained as the owner couldn't afford it.
In the end I bought a much newer 70k miles E46 330i Sport (which I still own). However, this is built badly, rusts badly, is not involving to drive, and has put me off Beemers for life. It has no torque either, but to give it credit it is practical and excellent on fuel for a 3.0ltr straight six. With hindsight I should have upped my budget and bought a nicer E36 M3!
We live and learn. Good article and interesting balanced read on the various responses by everyone.
In the end I bought a much newer 70k miles E46 330i Sport (which I still own). However, this is built badly, rusts badly, is not involving to drive, and has put me off Beemers for life. It has no torque either, but to give it credit it is practical and excellent on fuel for a 3.0ltr straight six. With hindsight I should have upped my budget and bought a nicer E36 M3!
We live and learn. Good article and interesting balanced read on the various responses by everyone.
LotusAlfaV6bloke said:
In the end I bought a much newer 70k miles E46 330i Sport (which I still own). However, this is built badly, rusts badly, is not involving to drive, and has put me off Beemers for life. It has no torque either,
This doesnt sound right - the 330i has 300nm of torque which is far from 'no torque'. It never feels like it lacks torque unless the VANOS oil seals have failed in which case you will find it lacking in power below 3000rpm.
I still rue the day that I passed up a mint E39 M5 which was quite unusual out here in Dubai.
Must have been one of the last produced but it was 1 year old with delivery mileage,the protective plastic still on the door cards etc... and all the toys.
Was the perfect colour combination - Le Mans Blue with cream interior - but I couldn't get a warranty and there was no way I was going to drop the equivalent of £30k (which wasn't a bad price back in 2004) without it. I'd heard some horror stories about the Vanos system so played safe.
I was told it had been a gift for one of the locals and he'd never even bothered to drive it.
Must have been one of the last produced but it was 1 year old with delivery mileage,the protective plastic still on the door cards etc... and all the toys.
Was the perfect colour combination - Le Mans Blue with cream interior - but I couldn't get a warranty and there was no way I was going to drop the equivalent of £30k (which wasn't a bad price back in 2004) without it. I'd heard some horror stories about the Vanos system so played safe.
I was told it had been a gift for one of the locals and he'd never even bothered to drive it.
Oh Mr Fox I thought so to, and was told "Vanos this" and "DISA valve that" so much I had the codes checked and tried another mint 330i for comparison. It is not like I come from a back ground of driving turbo diesels either, but no, my car is 100% fine and the engine just needs to be revved.
Evo said:
Would a 328i make more sense for a 3k budget or are they alot slower.
Personally I want to look for an E36 328 that I can turn into a trackday car, cage, suspension, brakes cage etc.
Well for track use get an M3, sell the interior and whatever else off it you can to save money. Its not the speed its how it handles/steers/brakes.Personally I want to look for an E36 328 that I can turn into a trackday car, cage, suspension, brakes cage etc.
328 + LSD + better brakes + air filter + exhaust
if thats cheaper than an m3 by all means go for it!
Fox- said:
This article seems to further perpetuate the myth that all there is to affordability is whether you can afford the purchase price.
As long as people continue to beleive this, we'll continue to see scabby and badly looked after examples of once fantastic cars.
As long as people continue to beleive this, we'll continue to see scabby and badly looked after examples of once fantastic cars.
Running costs are related to the new price, not what you paid years later.
I'm not happy about the £3k bill my ALPINA is in the process of generating, but I've been prepared for it since I first bought one six years ago...
Its def not just the buying, and all about the running costs...
I agree with the article though ownership is much more afordable now than ever before.
Heres a few bits i've replaced on my E46 M3 Over the years:
-Alternator, supply and fitted, (genuine bmw) Indy Labour £650.00
-Battery, Bosche Silverline, 780ah, £125.00 easy fit
-Plastic Battery cover,snapped by the dealers!they get brittle,then snap, £25.00 supply only
-Exhaust, Rear and Centre Section, Cats Back, (genuine BMW) Supply only £1500!! Dont even ask how much to include Cats and Manifolds!!! Ended up Fitting a Milltek, for £750 Cat back fitted by an Indy BM Dealers.
-Rear Coil Springs, well know fault on M cars inc Z4m (Genuine BMW) supply only £65.00 each
-Trailing Arm Bushes, (Genuine BMW) Supply only, £28.00 each.
-Fitted Red stuff front pads, £80 plus fitting
-Rear Pads, Mintex C-tek, £28.00 Plus fitting, Sensors are £15.00 if needed each.
-Screen Washer Motor/Pump, Gen BMW, £18.00, supply only
-Xenon Headlight level sensor, Gen BMW, £28.00 supply only
Tyres:
-Front 225/40/19ZR,XL Continental M3, shop about, but excess of £220 each
-Rear, 255/35/19Y,XL Continental M3, again shop about, Excess of £245 each
Services:
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £150 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 2, inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers Stratstone, £755 inc vat
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £155 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 1, Inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers,Stratstone £571 inc Vat
This is based on the bmw 4 plus scheme, and bases labour rates at about £61 an hour, on a new M3 i'm told its much higher as under 4 years old, labour is charged at £125 an hour! ouch!
All in all though, very reliable car, not much has been down to much other than fair wear and tear, and still love the car, M cars are a great drive, just keep on top of the servicing and maintenance, dont let it go into ruin! and its all good.
My Biggest dissapointment was the factory exhaust price, didn't really want to go stainless, but at half the cost, and better quality, was a no brainer.
Andy.
I agree with the article though ownership is much more afordable now than ever before.
Heres a few bits i've replaced on my E46 M3 Over the years:
-Alternator, supply and fitted, (genuine bmw) Indy Labour £650.00
-Battery, Bosche Silverline, 780ah, £125.00 easy fit
-Plastic Battery cover,snapped by the dealers!they get brittle,then snap, £25.00 supply only
-Exhaust, Rear and Centre Section, Cats Back, (genuine BMW) Supply only £1500!! Dont even ask how much to include Cats and Manifolds!!! Ended up Fitting a Milltek, for £750 Cat back fitted by an Indy BM Dealers.
-Rear Coil Springs, well know fault on M cars inc Z4m (Genuine BMW) supply only £65.00 each
-Trailing Arm Bushes, (Genuine BMW) Supply only, £28.00 each.
-Fitted Red stuff front pads, £80 plus fitting
-Rear Pads, Mintex C-tek, £28.00 Plus fitting, Sensors are £15.00 if needed each.
-Screen Washer Motor/Pump, Gen BMW, £18.00, supply only
-Xenon Headlight level sensor, Gen BMW, £28.00 supply only
Tyres:
-Front 225/40/19ZR,XL Continental M3, shop about, but excess of £220 each
-Rear, 255/35/19Y,XL Continental M3, again shop about, Excess of £245 each
Services:
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £150 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 2, inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers Stratstone, £755 inc vat
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £155 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 1, Inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers,Stratstone £571 inc Vat
This is based on the bmw 4 plus scheme, and bases labour rates at about £61 an hour, on a new M3 i'm told its much higher as under 4 years old, labour is charged at £125 an hour! ouch!
All in all though, very reliable car, not much has been down to much other than fair wear and tear, and still love the car, M cars are a great drive, just keep on top of the servicing and maintenance, dont let it go into ruin! and its all good.
My Biggest dissapointment was the factory exhaust price, didn't really want to go stainless, but at half the cost, and better quality, was a no brainer.
Andy.
adycav said:
Article said:
Surprisingly, while we were talking to Andrew about the E36 M3 he suggested that you might want to look for a later 330 diesel instead. He explained: 'You'd be amazed in real-world driving just how close they are performance-wise. In fact there are some in-gear scenarios where the diesel might actually be quicker than the M3."
Oh god what did you print that for?The diesel bores will be quoting that (or their paraphrased version of it) until the end of bloody time.
Introducing the 330d....also known as the quintessential M3 killer.
andyman_2006 said:
Its def not just the buying, and all about the running costs...
I agree with the article though ownership is much more afordable now than ever before.
Heres a few bits i've replaced on my E46 M3 Over the years:
-Alternator, supply and fitted, (genuine bmw) Indy Labour £650.00
-Battery, Bosche Silverline, 780ah, £125.00 easy fit
-Plastic Battery cover,snapped by the dealers!they get brittle,then snap, £25.00 supply only
-Exhaust, Rear and Centre Section, Cats Back, (genuine BMW) Supply only £1500!! Dont even ask how much to include Cats and Manifolds!!! Ended up Fitting a Milltek, for £750 Cat back fitted by an Indy BM Dealers.
-Rear Coil Springs, well know fault on M cars inc Z4m (Genuine BMW) supply only £65.00 each
-Trailing Arm Bushes, (Genuine BMW) Supply only, £28.00 each.
-Fitted Red stuff front pads, £80 plus fitting
-Rear Pads, Mintex C-tek, £28.00 Plus fitting, Sensors are £15.00 if needed each.
-Screen Washer Motor/Pump, Gen BMW, £18.00, supply only
-Xenon Headlight level sensor, Gen BMW, £28.00 supply only
Tyres:
-Front 225/40/19ZR,XL Continental M3, shop about, but excess of £220 each
-Rear, 255/35/19Y,XL Continental M3, again shop about, Excess of £245 each
Services:
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £150 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 2, inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers Stratstone, £755 inc vat
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £155 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 1, Inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers,Stratstone £571 inc Vat
This is based on the bmw 4 plus scheme, and bases labour rates at about £61 an hour, on a new M3 i'm told its much higher as under 4 years old, labour is charged at £125 an hour! ouch!
All in all though, very reliable car, not much has been down to much other than fair wear and tear, and still love the car, M cars are a great drive, just keep on top of the servicing and maintenance, dont let it go into ruin! and its all good.
My Biggest dissapointment was the factory exhaust price, didn't really want to go stainless, but at half the cost, and better quality, was a no brainer.
Andy.
I haven't heard of an E46 needing a replacement exhaust before. What happened, corrosion?I agree with the article though ownership is much more afordable now than ever before.
Heres a few bits i've replaced on my E46 M3 Over the years:
-Alternator, supply and fitted, (genuine bmw) Indy Labour £650.00
-Battery, Bosche Silverline, 780ah, £125.00 easy fit
-Plastic Battery cover,snapped by the dealers!they get brittle,then snap, £25.00 supply only
-Exhaust, Rear and Centre Section, Cats Back, (genuine BMW) Supply only £1500!! Dont even ask how much to include Cats and Manifolds!!! Ended up Fitting a Milltek, for £750 Cat back fitted by an Indy BM Dealers.
-Rear Coil Springs, well know fault on M cars inc Z4m (Genuine BMW) supply only £65.00 each
-Trailing Arm Bushes, (Genuine BMW) Supply only, £28.00 each.
-Fitted Red stuff front pads, £80 plus fitting
-Rear Pads, Mintex C-tek, £28.00 Plus fitting, Sensors are £15.00 if needed each.
-Screen Washer Motor/Pump, Gen BMW, £18.00, supply only
-Xenon Headlight level sensor, Gen BMW, £28.00 supply only
Tyres:
-Front 225/40/19ZR,XL Continental M3, shop about, but excess of £220 each
-Rear, 255/35/19Y,XL Continental M3, again shop about, Excess of £245 each
Services:
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £150 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 2, inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers Stratstone, £755 inc vat
Oil only, inc TWS Oil, Main dealers, Stratstone, £155 inc vat (cheaper than my Indy!)
Ins 1, Inc TWS oil, Valve Clearances, Main Dealers,Stratstone £571 inc Vat
This is based on the bmw 4 plus scheme, and bases labour rates at about £61 an hour, on a new M3 i'm told its much higher as under 4 years old, labour is charged at £125 an hour! ouch!
All in all though, very reliable car, not much has been down to much other than fair wear and tear, and still love the car, M cars are a great drive, just keep on top of the servicing and maintenance, dont let it go into ruin! and its all good.
My Biggest dissapointment was the factory exhaust price, didn't really want to go stainless, but at half the cost, and better quality, was a no brainer.
Andy.
That's also pretty steep for a new alternator. Think you can get a reconditioned one on an exchange basis for quite a bit less.
Other than those bills, maintenance seems fairly reasonable.
Hellbound said:
adycav said:
Article said:
Surprisingly, while we were talking to Andrew about the E36 M3 he suggested that you might want to look for a later 330 diesel instead. He explained: 'You'd be amazed in real-world driving just how close they are performance-wise. In fact there are some in-gear scenarios where the diesel might actually be quicker than the M3."
Oh god what did you print that for?The diesel bores will be quoting that (or their paraphrased version of it) until the end of bloody time.
Introducing the 330d....also known as the quintessential M3 killer.
Onetrackmind said:
I haven't heard of an E46 needing a replacement exhaust before. What happened, corrosion?
That's also pretty steep for a new alternator. Think you can get a reconditioned one on an exchange basis for quite a bit less.
Other than those bills, maintenance seems fairly reasonable.
Yeah corrosion, but only on the silly designed bit at the back...a known problem i'm told by the chap in the parts at stratstone.That's also pretty steep for a new alternator. Think you can get a reconditioned one on an exchange basis for quite a bit less.
Other than those bills, maintenance seems fairly reasonable.
It was the flange/mount the connects the centre section to the rear silencer, and it was on both parts, i thought it was a bracket or clamp, but no it was a constructed part of the centre and rear box system, so i needed both rear and centre
id asked about welding, but as it was mild steel, was a non starter, and it was blowing from the seal on that clamp, and needed an mot that week! superb! the exhaust was in good perfect working condition apart from that nasty clamp/mount...
Its sorted now. Stratstone offered me a 'stock' CSL system for £1000 discounted as it was on the shelf, but only came with a 1 year warranty, the stainless has lifetime, and is constructed much better in full shiny T304
New alternator was £320 plus vat, and fitting, had some other belts changed for A/C etc at same time so prob not that bad.
andy.
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