RE: New M5 Gets Show Debut In Shanghai

[Beardy10]

I remember when the first E60 customer cars were on the road the only complaint was the range/economy...they bring stop/start and forced induction to help combat that and that's the main focus of concerns!

[jhayward1980]

Here's hoping for a further drop in the already bargain used M5 market!!

[john_r]

Ahhh, at last a replacement for the RS6...

[kavman0]

No carbon fibre roof on this?

[neil_bmw]

Kong said:

I think this goes to show the German power war is over.

1998 - M5 400bhp
2000 - E55 AMG 470bhp
2002 - RS6 440bhp
2005 - M5 500bhp
2007 - RS6 570bhp
2009 - E63 AMG 525bhp
2011 - M5 552bhp

For the first time BMW and Merc have both released their fastest executive saloon with LESS power than the existing Audi.

And the corresponding torque figures and power to weight figures are?

[sootyrumble]

Dagnut said:

It's like that old chestnut the turbo timer, completely unnecessary yet people still fit them to modern turbo cars...only takes a couple of seconds for the turbo's to slow their spin to a harmless level ,so unless you were hammering the car and pulled up to a complete halt in 2 seconds you're not going to have a problem

Its not the turbo still spinning that hammers them its the elevated turbo temperature burning the oil in the housing when the engines stopped and leaving the bearings dry, in this case stopping for seconds at a time will make no difference at all as the oil will still be around them, thats why you should let a turbo car "cool" down for the last 1 mile of a drive :-. This is why turbo timers do still have some function as they keep the engine ticking over and feeding oil to the turbo till it reaches a reasobable temperature so when you next start the car the bearings are still lubricated

Edited by sootyrumble on Tuesday 19th April 12:55

[AlpinaB5s]

Beardy10 said:

I remember when the first E60 customer cars were on the road the only complaint was the range/economy...they bring stop/start and forced induction to help combat that and that's the main focus of concerns!

and the also give them cira 10% increase in power (like it really needed it).

Faster and smarter.

[Owlwood]

I think it looks really good. It looks menacing, like an M5 should.

[PhantomPH]

Zod said:

iOversteer said:

PhantomPH said:

You can keep the 'start/stop' thing (can it be disabled by the driver?), but otherwise that is a fab looking thing. Love it.

Yes, you can disable the system.

Can't see a problem with it. Around town it won't disturb you, but will boost economy. On the motorway or on a hoon it won't kick in.

I think it's an 'experience' thing, mate. Although I can't imagine it's the same in an M5, I have sat in car with big V8's before and the 'blub blub blub' on tickover makes the little boy in me wee his pants.

I dare say this is not the same in the new M5 tho, where the driver is insulated from the sound and feeling of the engine much more.

Let me put it this way - if I drew up beside a TVR or a Cobra at the lights, I would wind the window down to hear the engine as it bubbled away on tickover before the driver accelerated. If I did that and all I heard was silence from the sports car and a diesel rattle from the transit behind it, I would cry a little inside.

[sootyrumble]

PhantomPH said:

I think it's an 'experience' thing, mate. Although I can't imagine it's the same in an M5, I have sat in car with big V8's before and the 'blub blub blub' on tickover makes the little boy in me wee his pants.

I dare say this is not the same in the new M5 tho, where the driver is insulated from the sound and feeling of the engine, tho.

Let me put it this way - if I drew up beside a TVR or a Cobra at the lights, I would wind the window down to hear the engine as it bubbled away on tickover before the driver accelerated. If I did that and all I heard was silence from the sports car and a diesel rattle from the transit behind it, I would cry a little inside.

+1

[Mermaid]

AlpinaB5s said:

Beardy10 said:

I remember when the first E60 customer cars were on the road the only complaint was the range/economy...they bring stop/start and forced induction to help combat that and that's the main focus of concerns!

and the also give them cira 10% increase in power (like it really needed it).

Faster and smarter.

And I expect the "average" purchaser today is not a fast (good) driver, nor as smart about car dynamics.

[Wadeski]

Dagnut said:

It's like that old chestnut the turbo timer, completely unnecessary yet people still fit them to modern turbo cars...only takes a couple of seconds for the turbo's to slow their spin to a harmless level ,so unless you were hammering the car and pulled up to a complete halt in 2 seconds you're not going to have a problem

Thats not what turbo timers are for. Its to stop the oil still in the red hot turbo system carbonising to component-clogging residue. Think of a pan of soup boiling dry, then imagine that on your turbo bearings.

Water cooled turbos dont suffer this the same way.

[rb5230]

Not keen on the looks of the new 5series at all and this M5 is no exception, but then i thought that when the e60 came out and it really grew on me, love it now.

[jem3]

although the mildly pumped wheel arches are actually a departure for M cars, which don't usually feature reprofiled bodywork

E46 M3 anyone ?, new 1 series M ?

[Zod]

jem3 said:

although the mildly pumped wheel arches are actually a departure for M cars, which don't usually feature reprofiled bodywork

E46 M3 anyone ?, new 1 series M ?

No previous M5 has had wider arches.

[johnpeat]

kambites said:

I've never understood the dislike of stop-start systems. They have pretty much no draw-backs, in my experience.

Friend of mine suffers a company supplied Corsa with 'start-stop' and he's spotted a nasty little trick which the dealer denies is a fault.

Let's say you're an aggressive driver, the sort who comes upto junctions quickly, braking hard whilst waiting to see if you have a clear run out - and that the junction in question is at the bottom of a decently steep hill.

He comes upto a couple of such junctions quite often and what's he's done a few times now is actually stop the car (or near as dammit) but then sees the junction is clear so releases the brakes and returns to the gas.

In that gap as his foot is moving and the engine is responding to the throttle movement, the car has picked-up a bit of speed from the slope and as it crosses the line into the junction it - cuts out - leaving him coasting into the middle of the junction with no power...

He assumed it was a fault - Vauxhall dealer says it's him being 'over aggressive in a car designed for economy' and that he should 'hold the car on the brakes until he's ready to pull out'...

His colleagues all get the same cars and a couple have had similar incidents. I should say there's a bit of 'driving it like you stole it' here (he's got targets!!) - he even managed to demonstate it to me, so it's not a random glitch.

It just seems that the car doesn't know if it's perfectly stationary and it can cut the engine when you're moving quite slowly (and in this case, accelerating due to the slope) too...

[Beardy10]

Zod said:

jem3 said:

although the mildly pumped wheel arches are actually a departure for M cars, which don't usually feature reprofiled bodywork

E46 M3 anyone ?, new 1 series M ?

No previous M5 has had wider arches.

The only M3 that didn't have arches was the E36 I believe. I actually think it's a good move to differentiate the M5 a bit more....they made the M Sport look a little too similar with the E60.

[David 997t]

Mermaid said:

And I expect the "average" purchaser today is not a fast (good) driver, nor as smart about car dynamics.

Do you really think so??? In my experience the M5 drivers I've come across are car mad and alot of them very good peddler's!! I think you have to be a touch of a car nut to know what the M5 is about....

[Sivraj]

johnpeat said:

Friend of mine suffers a company supplied Corsa with 'start-stop' and he's spotted a nasty little trick which the dealer denies is a fault.

Let's say you're an aggressive driver, the sort who comes upto junctions quickly, braking hard whilst waiting to see if you have a clear run out - and that the junction in question is at the bottom of a decently steep hill.

He comes upto a couple of such junctions quite often and what's he's done a few times now is actually stop the car (or near as dammit) but then sees the junction is clear so releases the brakes and returns to the gas.

In that gap as his foot is moving and the engine is responding to the throttle movement, the car has picked-up a bit of speed from the slope and as it crosses the line into the junction it - cuts out - leaving him coasting into the middle of the junction with no power...

He assumed it was a fault - Vauxhall dealer says it's him being 'over aggressive in a car designed for economy' and that he should 'hold the car on the brakes until he's ready to pull out'...

His colleagues all get the same cars and a couple have had similar incidents. I should say there's a bit of 'driving it like you stole it' here (he's got targets!!) - he even managed to demonstate it to me, so it's not a random glitch.

It just seems that the car doesn't know if it's perfectly stationary and it can cut the engine when you're moving quite slowly (and in this case, accelerating due to the slope) too...

I've never experienced a stop/start system myself but I was told that the vehicle would need to be stationary for more than 30-60 seconds before the system kicked in,
Have to say I would not be happy living within with the system you describe!

[kambites]

David 997t said:

Mermaid said:

And I expect the "average" purchaser today is not a fast (good) driver, nor as smart about car dynamics.

Do you really think so??? In my experience the M5 drivers I've come across are car mad and alot of them very good peddler's!! I think you have to be a touch of a car nut to know what the M5 is about....

I think there are two classes of people who buy M5s. Enthusiasts who want a decent drivers' car but need a saloon for some reason and people who want to buy a top-of-the-range BMW so they can say they ave a top-of-the-range BMW.

I suspect the latter significantly outnumber the former.