RE: Driven: Noble M600 (Production Version)
Discussion
Pesty said:
I was a very very lucky boy and was granted a passenger ride in one of these.
I was not that impressed by the pics of this car and the price for what I had foolishly assumed a flashy kit car.
Having now seen it in the flesh I can confirm that this car looks every bit the supercar to me and well made.
Power is mental managed 203 Mph with my fat arse in it and it felt effortless, I wonder if it would go higher with a bit longer and better conditions. Now I don't have much experience of sitting in 150k plus supercars but this is a thouroughly sorted car seriously impressed.
My car felt like it was falling appart over the same surface at lower speeds. This car was rock solid and a very pleasant place to be by comparison but still seemed to feel raw and exciting. very impressive damping and chassis.
I need one of these in my life.
Was that at VMAX? I see Dickie Meaden was pretty impressed with it too.I was not that impressed by the pics of this car and the price for what I had foolishly assumed a flashy kit car.
Having now seen it in the flesh I can confirm that this car looks every bit the supercar to me and well made.
Power is mental managed 203 Mph with my fat arse in it and it felt effortless, I wonder if it would go higher with a bit longer and better conditions. Now I don't have much experience of sitting in 150k plus supercars but this is a thouroughly sorted car seriously impressed.
My car felt like it was falling appart over the same surface at lower speeds. This car was rock solid and a very pleasant place to be by comparison but still seemed to feel raw and exciting. very impressive damping and chassis.
I need one of these in my life.
"Since done 202, 203 and 205mph in the Noble. Quickest thing here apart from this, which has done 207 http://t.co/QQq4UE3 "
www.twitter.com/dickiemeaden
And that was in the prototype so the carbon fibre bodied production version should be even better.
Sorry to resurect an old topic but I just found this:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=...
Is it right re. 1 car per month? I thought their target was a lot higher than that. 200K x 12 is only a 2.4M annual turnover; my local electrical contractor has a higher turnover than that!
I thought they had something like 50+ 'ordered'. That's the next 4 or 5 years of production...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=...
Is it right re. 1 car per month? I thought their target was a lot higher than that. 200K x 12 is only a 2.4M annual turnover; my local electrical contractor has a higher turnover than that!
I thought they had something like 50+ 'ordered'. That's the next 4 or 5 years of production...
fatbutt said:
Sorry to resurect an old topic but I just found this:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=...
Is it right re. 1 car per month? I thought their target was a lot higher than that. 200K x 12 is only a 2.4M annual turnover; my local electrical contractor has a higher turnover than that!
I thought they had something like 50+ 'ordered'. That's the next 4 or 5 years of production...
I too thought that it was originally meant to be one per week, rather than per month, but I spoke to Peter Boutwood yesterday and he confirmed that this is indeed correct. http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=...
Is it right re. 1 car per month? I thought their target was a lot higher than that. 200K x 12 is only a 2.4M annual turnover; my local electrical contractor has a higher turnover than that!
I thought they had something like 50+ 'ordered'. That's the next 4 or 5 years of production...
12 cars a year!! The numbers dont work out on that, it will take years to claw back all the financial outlay on development warranty work build costs etc! Methinks people on the Noble forum who are spouting off about 50 odd sales already are talking rubbish, who would want to wait 4 years for a car that might not even be built by a company on these figures that might not be around by then. I cannot see the business ethos in producing 12 cars a year unless they think that is the only amount they can sell. They need to sort the pricing out pronto.....as in £1,000,000 each!
Edited by barefoot on Sunday 26th June 09:36
barefoot said:
12 cars a year!! The numbers dont work out on that, it will take years to claw back all the financial outlay on development warranty work build costs etc! Methinks people on the Noble forum who are spouting off about 50 odd sales already are talking rubbish, who would want to wait 4 years for a car that might not even be built by a company on these figures that might not be around by then. I cannot see the business ethos in producing 12 cars a year unless they think that is the only amount they can sell. They need to sort the pricing out pronto.....as in £1,000,000 each!
At one a week and assuming a near 50% margin it was going to be hard to break even and then start to claw back the sunken costs. Edited by barefoot on Sunday 26th June 09:36
At one a month it is definitely no longer a business but a hobby. Shame.
DonkeyApple said:
At one a week and assuming a near 50% margin it was going to be hard to break even and then start to claw back the sunken costs.
At one a month it is definitely no longer a business but a hobby. Shame.
You may well be right, but they seem happy enough about the situation. For that matter, how do Pagani, Koenigsegg and many others stay in business?At one a month it is definitely no longer a business but a hobby. Shame.
Daisy Duke said:
You may well be right, but they seem happy enough about the situation. For that matter, how do Pagani, Koenigsegg and many others stay in business?
I'd imagine by having whacking margins, a very stripped down work force and a vehicle with sufficient bling that there is no issue obtaining Russian, Middle East etc orders.If Noble are clearing £100k on each unit then that's gross revenue of £1.2m, now they shouldn't be paying any corporation tax as they'llbe writing off costs for years but that kind of revenue isn't going to pay much more than a few salaries and bills. And I doubt that much of their custom will come from the New World as the car can't be parked outside a bar and advertise the style and wealth of the driver.
A lot of these types of companies/hobbies suffer from the owner, who has clearly demostrated that he can create and run a business then deciding with their relaxation company to not apply any of the abilities to the company that were the reason for their earlier business being such a success. They usually end up not following every nut and bolt and thinking the manager will take care of it all, the exact opposite of what they know any company needs.
DonkeyApple said:
I'd imagine by having whacking margins, a very stripped down work force and a vehicle with sufficient bling that there is no issue obtaining Russian, Middle East etc orders.
If Noble are clearing £100k on each unit then that's gross revenue of £1.2m, now they shouldn't be paying any corporation tax as they'llbe writing off costs for years but that kind of revenue isn't going to pay much more than a few salaries and bills. And I doubt that much of their custom will come from the New World as the car can't be parked outside a bar and advertise the style and wealth of the driver.
Peter maintains that he isn't making any profit per car, although what that really means (ie whether it includes a proportion of the development costs or not), I don't know. Actually I don't think getting orders is the issue, particularly from the Middle/Far East, Russia etc, it'll be fulfilling them that could be. Still it'll keep them exclusive, I suppose. If Noble are clearing £100k on each unit then that's gross revenue of £1.2m, now they shouldn't be paying any corporation tax as they'llbe writing off costs for years but that kind of revenue isn't going to pay much more than a few salaries and bills. And I doubt that much of their custom will come from the New World as the car can't be parked outside a bar and advertise the style and wealth of the driver.
DonkeyApple said:
A lot of these types of companies/hobbies suffer from the owner, who has clearly demostrated that he can create and run a business then deciding with their relaxation company to not apply any of the abilities to the company that were the reason for their earlier business being such a success. They usually end up not following every nut and bolt and thinking the manager will take care of it all, the exact opposite of what they know any company needs.
Oh I think you'll find Peter Dyson is keeping a very close eye on proceedings. 
Daisy Duke said:
DonkeyApple said:
At one a week and assuming a near 50% margin it was going to be hard to break even and then start to claw back the sunken costs.
At one a month it is definitely no longer a business but a hobby. Shame.
You may well be right, but they seem happy enough about the situation. For that matter, how do Pagani, Koenigsegg and many others stay in business?At one a month it is definitely no longer a business but a hobby. Shame.
On saying that the press reviews have always been nothing but complimentary and Noble must be very pleased with that. Maclaren stand to lose a lot more than Noble and they could not have had a worse bunch of press reviews if they tried! The best thing Noble could do is get someone on here to buy one and give it rave reviews as quite a few on here who have considered the Maclaren might now be looking elsewhere and I would imagine there is quite a long waiting list for the 458.
Daisy Duke said:
[
Peter maintains that he isn't making any profit per car, although what that really means (ie whether it includes a proportion of the development costs or not), I don't know. Actually I don't think getting orders is the issue, particularly from the Middle/Far East, Russia etc, it'll be fulfilling them that could be. Still it'll keep them exclusive, I suppose.
Confirmed as a vanity project then because the maths relly don't work on that basis.Peter maintains that he isn't making any profit per car, although what that really means (ie whether it includes a proportion of the development costs or not), I don't know. Actually I don't think getting orders is the issue, particularly from the Middle/Far East, Russia etc, it'll be fulfilling them that could be. Still it'll keep them exclusive, I suppose.
I hope Dyson has a big vanity streak, as history suggests quite a few very rich Americans tend to lose intrest after a few years in British Sports cars that don't make money.....
It's a shame they didn't come out with those facts at the start, it would have made much more sense and I would have had more respect for them. Having now gone from '1 a week, production starts next month' two years ago to '1 a month, and gods knows when we'll deliver' seems a rather large fall of credibility to me?
J
DonkeyApple said:
Daisy Duke said:
You may well be right, but they seem happy enough about the situation. For that matter, how do Pagani, Koenigsegg and many others stay in business?
I'd imagine by having whacking margins, a very stripped down work force and a vehicle with sufficient bling that there is no issue obtaining Russian, Middle East etc orders.If Noble are clearing £100k on each unit then that's gross revenue of £1.2m, now they shouldn't be paying any corporation tax as they'llbe writing off costs for years but that kind of revenue isn't going to pay much more than a few salaries and bills. And I doubt that much of their custom will come from the New World as the car can't be parked outside a bar and advertise the style and wealth of the driver.
A lot of these types of companies/hobbies suffer from the owner, who has clearly demostrated that he can create and run a business then deciding with their relaxation company to not apply any of the abilities to the company that were the reason for their earlier business being such a success. They usually end up not following every nut and bolt and thinking the manager will take care of it all, the exact opposite of what they know any company needs.
Can't help but think they should have evolved from that point.
Talksteer said:
The irony of course is that Noble made around 900 M12/M400s over the course of about 4 years. At a rate of 225 cars per year and a £50k price tag the company was turning over about £11 million per year.
Can't help but think they should have evolved from that point.
Where to begin...?Can't help but think they should have evolved from that point.
Talksteer said:
The irony of course is that Noble made around 900 M12/M400s over the course of about 4 years. At a rate of 225 cars per year and a £50k price tag the company was turning over about £11 million per year.
Can't help but think they should have evolved from that point.
900! really that many?Can't help but think they should have evolved from that point.
....Lee noble had different ideas to Dyson, neither right nor wrong.
joust said:
It's a shame they didn't come out with those facts at the start, it would have made much more sense and I would have had more respect for them. Having now gone from '1 a week, production starts next month' two years ago to '1 a month, and gods knows when we'll deliver' seems a rather large fall of credibility to me?
J
The first UK M600 is being delivered next month, and as they were late due to production issues that are now sorted (unfortunately I can't elaborate more on this), they loaned the guy the press one for his driving holiday. I hope this is an indication of how seriously they're taking customer service now.J
BTW Justin, I also asked Peter about this
joust said:
(despite the blunt letter from Boutwood telling me I had no concept or understanding of what I was talking about)
and he couldn't recall saying anything that would offend you as that wasn't his intention. Obviously it's between you two, but I got the impression that there's genuinely no bad feeling on his part, I hope the same can be said of you? Daisy, sounds like they are taking customers seriously, but to do otherwise would be real suicide. Unsure what the Red car is then (the LHD) as it was cited some months ago as being a customer car No. 5. Seems the information flow is a bit erratic and not clear then on the forums here.
Whilst production issues can explain the lateness, not sure about the 5 times reduction in build volumes, unless they got something very wrong when they announced the cars. More likely I am sure they have aligned their market with the production. I've always said they would have a market in the very low numbers for it, after all you can find 10's of people to buy almost anything it would appear - Ascari and Arash have proved that previously, Lexus more recently.
As to the letter, I moved on over that a long time ago - after all I'm not going to buy one from him! My point in the wider article in what you have quoted just that bit was that it seemed strange to write a long letter explaining the cars position, as well as saying "you have made a mistake" to someone that wanted their deposit back.
However, still unsure why Peter didn't want to say hello at TGBW at Le Mans, but perhaps he was more engrossed in talking to my friends? Me, I was more engrossed in having a close look at the black/red car he had to compare against the blue one and didn't really have much to say. If Peter can't remember what he wrote it would seem he's moved on (otherwise it would be on his computer) so that is that.
J
J
Whilst production issues can explain the lateness, not sure about the 5 times reduction in build volumes, unless they got something very wrong when they announced the cars. More likely I am sure they have aligned their market with the production. I've always said they would have a market in the very low numbers for it, after all you can find 10's of people to buy almost anything it would appear - Ascari and Arash have proved that previously, Lexus more recently.
As to the letter, I moved on over that a long time ago - after all I'm not going to buy one from him! My point in the wider article in what you have quoted just that bit was that it seemed strange to write a long letter explaining the cars position, as well as saying "you have made a mistake" to someone that wanted their deposit back.
However, still unsure why Peter didn't want to say hello at TGBW at Le Mans, but perhaps he was more engrossed in talking to my friends? Me, I was more engrossed in having a close look at the black/red car he had to compare against the blue one and didn't really have much to say. If Peter can't remember what he wrote it would seem he's moved on (otherwise it would be on his computer) so that is that.
J
J
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