RE: Caterham Sale: The Full Story
Discussion
cathalm said:
One area where you're wrong, Lotus doesn;t have the brand heritage of Porsche, Lambo, Bugatti etc... Wrong buddy, Lotus has all the ingredients for an expert marketing effort to use to trump most of those brands. Resoration of reputation is easier than building one based on nothing. What can they use to do it? 13 formula one championships, Indy 500 win, saloon and sports car championships, a uniquely charismatic founder who was one the greatest engineers ever, domination of f1 for two decades, probably te best F1 car ever made (the 72). Frankly that heritage can only be rivalled by one of those you mention and Lambo? What heritage?
All these things are gold to marketer and thats what DB is, he knows how to promote and pacakage all that to the target audience. In my view there's a 50/50 chance of it succeeding and even if it fails, the company will be closer to what Colin wanted and be more attractive to the next buyer.
HERITAGE...............Discuss, what actually does this mean in the real and modern world?All these things are gold to marketer and thats what DB is, he knows how to promote and pacakage all that to the target audience. In my view there's a 50/50 chance of it succeeding and even if it fails, the company will be closer to what Colin wanted and be more attractive to the next buyer.
Cathalm your view of heritage seems to be a bit like building a kit car, connect certain components and bobs-yer-uncle. Lotus have already squandered this 'heritage' that you mention by poor quality, ill-thought out design and build........and dire marketing.....I could tell you some absolute horror stories on this front from the M100 days. Your view of using the 72 is just bizarre and niave, the comment 'the best F1 car of all time' being a clue I think. All that you describe is gone with the wind, it has little value to a modern non-enthusiast buyer.
Lotus must creat its own heritage NOW in either F1, Le Mans and by solid engineering, build quality and design in a market place where they can compete. Buyers of Porsche and BMW cars that I have spoken to that have tried various Lotus cars have found them impossible to live with. Your variation of 'heritage' comes second to this consideration. There is no sign hushed reverential tones for a motoring god in those types of comments. Heritage only works when the positive emotions are engaged in the present so that then the past can shine through to enhance the present......a la Mclaren??
Lamborghini created their own heritage when they were bought by Audi....Instantly connecting to all that encompasses the Audi brand. It was almost like buyers were free to admire Lambo design flare once released from the shackles of the past, and all that was dubious and impractical shadowing the marque.
On the positive side it seems that buyers do forgive brands for their past, and if the Lamborghini example is any indication, there may even be a hunger amongst buyers to escape from the crowd for something more distinctive. However anyone using the Lotus name has an absolute mountain to climb if they are to be forgiven for their past sins, which are both many and all encompassing.
Edited by Ipelm on Saturday 30th April 12:20
Edited by Ipelm on Saturday 30th April 12:22
I hope a larger financial partner does not bully one of our last internationally respected British engineering companies, especially one that had spread it's name so impressively far for such a tiny operation, but the chance to open to a wider market by going through the expense of testing for regulations and the opportunity to negotiate better deals on components like base engines. It can only be a good thing for Caterhams future if used correctly.
Edited by Niffty951 on Saturday 30th April 12:22
This comment does not encourage confidence in the take over of Caterham cars, Why the hell would you even say something like that.
"Tony Fernandes
Initially it's perhaps not so reassuring to hear Caterham's new owner confess that, "I'm not really a petrolhead and until recently I didn't have much interest in road cars."
"Tony Fernandes
Initially it's perhaps not so reassuring to hear Caterham's new owner confess that, "I'm not really a petrolhead and until recently I didn't have much interest in road cars."
deveng said:
Some Gump said:
Lotus doesn't have, and never will have the brand heratige of Porshe, Ferrari, McLaren, Lambo, Bugatti, Merc, BMW, the list is waay long.
I'm sorry but how can you say Lambo have heritage? You do know they only make cars because the owner didn't like the clutch in his Ferrari and thought he could do a better job based on all his tractor building knowledge?And you talk about heritage without saying alfa Romeo! Thats where enzo started!
That is what the new management are trying to do, get the kind of products to market that can compete with Ferrari, Lambo & Porsche etc, and also why there back in F1, to remind everyone of Lotus' racing past and get the brand better known
So far i think Danny and Co have done ok, they just need to win the court case, to avoid confusion and then get some decent cars out, while i think the Evora is great, it looks very expensive for a car with a utility Yota V6, at least the Yota in the SC, 111r was designed from the outset as a high performance inline 4, for a sports car, so it suited the lotus very well
The Evora V6 is not even the latest direct injection version, which would have had a useful 300+ bhp in standard N/A tune
The situtation with the current 1.6 and V6 Evora is more a case of making do with whats available, rather than whats needed, they got lucky with the supply of the 111r engine, and the VVC Rover before that, both the right engines at the right time for Lotus, they need to work that angle again with the new cars
I wouldn't trust this Guy as far as I could throw him.
He says he's not a petrol head, and never had an interest in road cars, then in the next breath he says he's passionate about Caterham, even though he hadn't even been in one untill now.
Ansar admits at the time, he didn't believe Caterham would be around for another 50 years, even though he said it at the 50th bash. So why should we beleive anything he says?
These Guys are corporate investors. It's not about passion, it's about numbers. They may as well be marketing washing machines.
I think the writing was on the wall when the Nearns sold out. Graham was passionate.
He says he's not a petrol head, and never had an interest in road cars, then in the next breath he says he's passionate about Caterham, even though he hadn't even been in one untill now.
Ansar admits at the time, he didn't believe Caterham would be around for another 50 years, even though he said it at the 50th bash. So why should we beleive anything he says?
These Guys are corporate investors. It's not about passion, it's about numbers. They may as well be marketing washing machines.
I think the writing was on the wall when the Nearns sold out. Graham was passionate.
The way I see this is that it's all about the Far East. Why does a man in Beijing buy a Ferrari? not because of the car, but because of the brand. The car is almost incidental. And that attitude is similar the world over for Ferrari. Behar knows that model, and wants to replicate it.
Why does someone buy a Lotus or Caterham though? generally it's because it goes round corners better than pretty much any other car. Fernandes has latched onto that model, and wants to take it to Asia. He wants to make Asia understand that it's not what you look like in a sports car when you're crawling through Kensington at 3mph, but rather that feeling you get when you're driving a car you're confident in, and you come over the crest of a hill to see this:
If he can sell that to Asia, he'll win big. I bet there's a road like that somewhere in China...
Why does someone buy a Lotus or Caterham though? generally it's because it goes round corners better than pretty much any other car. Fernandes has latched onto that model, and wants to take it to Asia. He wants to make Asia understand that it's not what you look like in a sports car when you're crawling through Kensington at 3mph, but rather that feeling you get when you're driving a car you're confident in, and you come over the crest of a hill to see this:
If he can sell that to Asia, he'll win big. I bet there's a road like that somewhere in China...
tty Spanish dealer, and get someone here who wants to sell the "brand" in Spain!
sideways sid said:
Janosh said:
Alfa numeric said:
Lotus, who aren't actually Lotus, have bought a company that is run by a man who used to run Lotus, which produces a car that used to be a Lotus.
Absolute genius - the best post I've read in a while!
That's the old road on the (southern side of the) Gotthard Pass in Switerland.
You can still drive up and down it but it's too tight/bumpy/full of cyclsits to have a great deal of fun on it, but it is worth doing. There is a 'better' road that runs near by (from where these pictures were taken).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gotthard_Alte_Pa...
You can still drive up and down it but it's too tight/bumpy/full of cyclsits to have a great deal of fun on it, but it is worth doing. There is a 'better' road that runs near by (from where these pictures were taken).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gotthard_Alte_Pa...
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