RE: Pic Of The Week: Low Drag Jaguar E-type
Discussion
Re the Lindner car.
PH quote says:
'The car is the only factory Low Drag lightweight E-type, and it's been put back together in...'
It wasn't the 'only' Low Drag Lightweight... there were 12.
Re this Lightweight, number 5 built, it was running 8th when apparently Marshals waved out an Abarth into its path resulting in a massive accident. Lindner was thrown out of the car(he hadn't been wearing the seat belts fitted), which carried on going and was totally wrecked. He died on his way to hospital. It should be mentioned too that 3 of the French Marshals were also fatalities.
The wrecked Jag was impounded by French authorities and languished for 17 years at a lock-up on the Montlhery circuit. The car(!) what was left of it, was then acquired by a French collector and passed to Lnyx Engineering. Lynx had bought up not only many lightweight spares but also 2 unused monocoques. One of these monocoques was used to recreate Lindner's car - it eventually appeared at Silverstone in 1982 (see pic) looking superb except its roofline was wrong.
This information is from the horse's mouth, Peter D Wilson, one of the elite few who actually worked on the original Lightweights in Department 21, the Competition Department at Browns Lane in the 1960s.
PH quote says:
'The car is the only factory Low Drag lightweight E-type, and it's been put back together in...'
It wasn't the 'only' Low Drag Lightweight... there were 12.
Re this Lightweight, number 5 built, it was running 8th when apparently Marshals waved out an Abarth into its path resulting in a massive accident. Lindner was thrown out of the car(he hadn't been wearing the seat belts fitted), which carried on going and was totally wrecked. He died on his way to hospital. It should be mentioned too that 3 of the French Marshals were also fatalities.
The wrecked Jag was impounded by French authorities and languished for 17 years at a lock-up on the Montlhery circuit. The car(!) what was left of it, was then acquired by a French collector and passed to Lnyx Engineering. Lynx had bought up not only many lightweight spares but also 2 unused monocoques. One of these monocoques was used to recreate Lindner's car - it eventually appeared at Silverstone in 1982 (see pic) looking superb except its roofline was wrong.
This information is from the horse's mouth, Peter D Wilson, one of the elite few who actually worked on the original Lightweights in Department 21, the Competition Department at Browns Lane in the 1960s.
I thought there was also a compagny who build replica's of this fantastic Jag.
here also a reproduction>> http://www.vicarage-jaguar.com/ld.html
and below is a real one?
they say with the picture
here also a reproduction>> http://www.vicarage-jaguar.com/ld.html
and below is a real one?
they say with the picture
picture said:
Mr Casual; that is incorrect. The pictures Ken shows, are either from a replica of the Lindner/nöcker Lightweight (#5) or from a #22 car.
But this kind is based upon the lightweights. Actually, there was only one low drag coupe made and that is the Cut7
But this kind is based upon the lightweights. Actually, there was only one low drag coupe made and that is the Cut7
Edited by GTRene on Saturday 7th May 10:05
dandarez said:
Re the Lindner car.
PH quote says:
'The car is the only factory Low Drag lightweight E-type, and it's been put back together in...'
It wasn't the 'only' Low Drag Lightweight... there were 12.
there were indeed 12 factory lightweights but the others did not wear the low drag body. The car above (CUT 7) was raced in period with a low drag body but it isn't a factory lightweight (I don't think). It was originally a steel bodied car.PH quote says:
'The car is the only factory Low Drag lightweight E-type, and it's been put back together in...'
It wasn't the 'only' Low Drag Lightweight... there were 12.
Facts remembered from a mispent youth!
What a load of old tosh!!!
4868WK was restored by Lynx in the late 80's after it was eventually released by the German government after the fatal crash.
Lynx did all the donkey work, rebuilding it as per the original car, hardly any of the car is original, i believe one wheel and the monocoque are the only surviving parts bar a few bits and bobs, and when they opened up panelwork to repair the car, Peter Lindners dried blood was still in the channels in the monocoque ( he was decapitated ).
How do i know this???
Well i used to work for the ex lynx panel beater that helped restore the car, at Lynx, not CMC, who told me the story of the car. I also have seen the completed car at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in about 1998 i think it was, and was very much a running restored car ( picture available that i took ).
CMC may have restored the car that Lynx rebuilt, but the feature imlpies that CMC have done the complete rebuild, which they did not.
This is also the reason why we used to create our own aluminium replicas of the Lindner Low drag E Type, as we had all the measurements off the rebuilt original car to use, and that was in the mid 90's.
Sorry CMC, you couldnt have done what you said, because it was already done!!!
ST
P.S The picture by Dandarez is proof, that is the real car, next to another Lynx E Type, in the 80's i would say ( 80's Morgan in the background and an old Triumph 2000 ) cars certainly not around in the early 60's.
4868WK was restored by Lynx in the late 80's after it was eventually released by the German government after the fatal crash.
Lynx did all the donkey work, rebuilding it as per the original car, hardly any of the car is original, i believe one wheel and the monocoque are the only surviving parts bar a few bits and bobs, and when they opened up panelwork to repair the car, Peter Lindners dried blood was still in the channels in the monocoque ( he was decapitated ).
How do i know this???
Well i used to work for the ex lynx panel beater that helped restore the car, at Lynx, not CMC, who told me the story of the car. I also have seen the completed car at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in about 1998 i think it was, and was very much a running restored car ( picture available that i took ).
CMC may have restored the car that Lynx rebuilt, but the feature imlpies that CMC have done the complete rebuild, which they did not.
This is also the reason why we used to create our own aluminium replicas of the Lindner Low drag E Type, as we had all the measurements off the rebuilt original car to use, and that was in the mid 90's.
Sorry CMC, you couldnt have done what you said, because it was already done!!!
ST
P.S The picture by Dandarez is proof, that is the real car, next to another Lynx E Type, in the 80's i would say ( 80's Morgan in the background and an old Triumph 2000 ) cars certainly not around in the early 60's.
Edited by Systemstech on Monday 9th May 06:50
Systemstech said:
Stuff
This isn't an entirely fair description of the work done by CMC, and it requires some qualification.The car was released by the French authorities in 1974 after it had been impounded for the obligatory 10 years following Lindner's fatal crash at Montlhery.
It was rescued by Patrick Lansard and quickly passed through a succession of owners before ending up at Lynx. The key point is that the Lynx restoration did not use the original body, but a genuine factory spare shell. The original trashed shell was kept with the car and and in fact was displayed with the rebuilt car while it was on display within the Rosso Bianco collection.
Fast forward to the car's acquisition by its current owner after the Rosso Bianco collection sale (roughly 2007 IIRC) and a decision was made to restore the car again, but this time using the original body.
The feature didn't imply that the entire rebuild was done by CMC, but it is worth clarifying that CMC have spent the lion's share of this rebuild meticulously restoring the original mangled shell.
To say that "CMC couldn't have done what you said, because it was already done" is quite wrong I'm afraid.
Cheers,
Stuart
Stuart is 100% correct. Lynx took the parts from the crashed car to rebuild a new shell. CMC aquired that rebuild as well as the original body to make into 1 original car again.
I followed the construction on the CMC website and have to say the sheer volume and quality of work done is incredible. There where hardly any straight panels left on the whole shell so it was almost entirely taken apart.
For those worried about material integrity I would also say that aluminium, when properly heat treated, can be reworked many times with little problem. Only when not heat treated will it become brittle and lose its strength. That said, I am not sure that the cars where ever that rigid to start with as I have heard that other lightweights had modifications later on.
Hats off to a top restoration and hopefully it will be at a number of events this year.
I followed the construction on the CMC website and have to say the sheer volume and quality of work done is incredible. There where hardly any straight panels left on the whole shell so it was almost entirely taken apart.
For those worried about material integrity I would also say that aluminium, when properly heat treated, can be reworked many times with little problem. Only when not heat treated will it become brittle and lose its strength. That said, I am not sure that the cars where ever that rigid to start with as I have heard that other lightweights had modifications later on.
Hats off to a top restoration and hopefully it will be at a number of events this year.
Systemstech said:
What a load of old tosh!!!
4868WK was restored by Lynx in the late 80's after it was eventually released by the German government after the fatal crash.
Lynx did all the donkey work, rebuilding it as per the original car, hardly any of the car is original, i believe one wheel and the monocoque are the only surviving parts bar a few bits and bobs, and when they opened up panelwork to repair the car, Peter Lindners dried blood was still in the channels in the monocoque ( he was decapitated ).
How do i know this???
Well i used to work for the ex lynx panel beater that helped restore the car, at Lynx, not CMC, who told me the story of the car. I also have seen the completed car at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in about 1998 i think it was, and was very much a running restored car ( picture available that i took ).
CMC may have restored the car that Lynx rebuilt, but the feature imlpies that CMC have done the complete rebuild, which they did not.
This is also the reason why we used to create our own aluminium replicas of the Lindner Low drag E Type, as we had all the measurements off the rebuilt original car to use, and that was in the mid 90's.
Sorry CMC, you couldnt have done what you said, because it was already done!!!
ST
P.S The picture by Dandarez is proof, that is the real car, next to another Lynx E Type, in the 80's i would say ( 80's Morgan in the background and an old Triumph 2000 ) cars certainly not around in the early 60's.
Why so negative ?4868WK was restored by Lynx in the late 80's after it was eventually released by the German government after the fatal crash.
Lynx did all the donkey work, rebuilding it as per the original car, hardly any of the car is original, i believe one wheel and the monocoque are the only surviving parts bar a few bits and bobs, and when they opened up panelwork to repair the car, Peter Lindners dried blood was still in the channels in the monocoque ( he was decapitated ).
How do i know this???
Well i used to work for the ex lynx panel beater that helped restore the car, at Lynx, not CMC, who told me the story of the car. I also have seen the completed car at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in about 1998 i think it was, and was very much a running restored car ( picture available that i took ).
CMC may have restored the car that Lynx rebuilt, but the feature imlpies that CMC have done the complete rebuild, which they did not.
This is also the reason why we used to create our own aluminium replicas of the Lindner Low drag E Type, as we had all the measurements off the rebuilt original car to use, and that was in the mid 90's.
Sorry CMC, you couldnt have done what you said, because it was already done!!!
ST
P.S The picture by Dandarez is proof, that is the real car, next to another Lynx E Type, in the 80's i would say ( 80's Morgan in the background and an old Triumph 2000 ) cars certainly not around in the early 60's.
Edited by Systemstech on Monday 9th May 06:50
I see that Stuart has corrected your posting so I don't need to go into details.
Suffice to say that CMC did rebuild the original shell and rebuild all the original mechanicals into it.
The work they carried out on the mangled shell was of an exceptional standard and I for one think we should applaud that we still have the skill base to carry out this standard of work in the U.K.
I have seen the ongoing project on several occassions during the rebuild.
Edited by mph on Monday 9th May 14:20
Mark Wibble said:
Ultimately down to the families though- I'd say what-ever their wishes are they should be honoured as their the ones who have or will suffer the most pain.
this.simple, and makes sense. the family should say what the deceased would have wanted. I'd also wager that, if a racing driver, they'd be happy to see it fixed, unless it was a fundamental design flaw in the vehicle that caused their death.
For those that aren't squeamish, pic and a little(second hand)info of crashed car here:
http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11989...
Difficult to dispute the input CMC have had in the cars resto when you consider the state of the original shell.
http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11989...
Difficult to dispute the input CMC have had in the cars resto when you consider the state of the original shell.
AlVal said:
this.
simple, and makes sense. the family should say what the deceased would have wanted. I'd also wager that, if a racing driver, they'd be happy to see it fixed, unless it was a fundamental design flaw in the vehicle that caused their death.
simple, and makes sense. the family should say what the deceased would have wanted. I'd also wager that, if a racing driver, they'd be happy to see it fixed, unless it was a fundamental design flaw in the vehicle that caused their death.
Peter Lindner's nephew Thomas Fritz has been aware of the project since the start, has provided valuable family archive (stills and Lindner's own cine film from Le Mans and the 'Ring) and was one of the very first to ride in the restored car last week. That looks like approval to me (unless the deceased marshals' families should be consulted too).
stuarte said:
For those that aren't squeamish, pic and a little(second hand)info of crashed car here:
http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11989...
Difficult to dispute the input CMC have had in the cars resto when you consider the state of the original shell.
Christ that's horrendous. http://www.etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=11989...
Difficult to dispute the input CMC have had in the cars resto when you consider the state of the original shell.
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