997 Turbo S ???
Discussion
I've recently purchased a 2010 Turbo S coupe with 30k miles for not much less than that.
Although it was OPC with 2 years warranty.
I have to say the car is stunning, even coming from a Gen1 Turbo it's a major advance.
In fact it's so much better than a Gen1 it's difficult to accept.
My advice is DRIVE it. All will become clear.
Although it was OPC with 2 years warranty.
I have to say the car is stunning, even coming from a Gen1 Turbo it's a major advance.
In fact it's so much better than a Gen1 it's difficult to accept.
My advice is DRIVE it. All will become clear.
ferdi p said:
Been offered a 2010 997 Turbo S Coupe, 5000 miles...
Can get for 76k... Any thoughts on if that's a good price at this time of year ?
A couple of these cars came up on the OPC network last November for low 80's.Can get for 76k... Any thoughts on if that's a good price at this time of year ?
I would say that is about right for an early car, considering the current market.
I went after a highly specced turbo instead as there were more choice of colours and spec at the time.
FeelingLucky - as you've taken the step from gen 1 to gen 2 id be interested to hear more on the changes / marked improvement you mention - was it that much quicker, less lag etc ? (aware of PDK vs Tip vs manual off course)
Im considering taking the plunge very soon on a gen I or gen II turbo but still deliberating as to which and if it is Gen II then whether to have the standard car (with Sports Chrono) or the full blown S.
Did you test the standard car when deciding ?
Any pointers / help much appreciated
Im considering taking the plunge very soon on a gen I or gen II turbo but still deliberating as to which and if it is Gen II then whether to have the standard car (with Sports Chrono) or the full blown S.
Did you test the standard car when deciding ?
Any pointers / help much appreciated
I owned 2006 Turbo Coupe manual with factory short shift.
I only really test drove the S to try out a PDK Turbo, to make a valid comparison with the manual, and lets be honest if you're going to get a Turbo PDK, you may as well go for the S, such are used prices.
The first thing I noticed was the brakes, my Gen1 was purchased with new disks/pads all round so the brakes where just fine, but the PCCBs on the S where astonishing, so sharp, I needed to re-calibrate in order to slow/stop smoothly.
Secondly the ride is much improved, more supple and compliant, yet the front is so pointy, again, by a degree that surprised me.
Don't get me wrong, I would never describe the Gen1 as being laggy, far from it, but, you're always aware you're driving a Turbo motor (albeit a very, very good one), the engine in the S is so free from lag you could almost believe it's not blown, and the step in power is more pronounced than perhaps you might expect. A minor point but it needs mentioning, all this and better economy too. Some say you don't buy a Turbo for economy (and they'd be right) but who wouldn't wish for a greater tank range. The week after purchase I covered 400 miles on a tank.
Lastly (apples and oranges here) I came to the Gen1 from an M3 SMG, and I loved the gearbox, it was always at the back of my mind that I would miss the paddle shift (and indeed I did as it turned out), but the SMG box is one that you could never really use in Auto, and quality changes in "S" mode (I always used S5) demanded a high degree of interaction with the throttle. NO such issues here, PDK can be used in auto (D) all day long and it seldom puts a foot wrong. But it can just as easily (possibly too easily) be used in manual, the standard program is just fine for 95% of the time. The rest of the time there is SPORT and SPORT PLUS, even in SPORT PLUS changes are never jerky or lumpy.
I have always rejected the argument that something can be too good, but it's perhaps here where that comes close, there's no particular skill required, to move up and down the box swiftly and with great ease.
I know PCM3 has detractors, but 3 is a major (and worthwhile) jump over 2.
The iPod interface is intuitive and efficient, and the Bluetooth is spot on. The Nav (by the standard of any £100 TomTom is pi$$ poor to be honest) is adequate, much better than PCM2 but still poor. The CD/DVD changer is integrated into the head unit, and with the Nav now HDD based, usefull space is freed up in the boot.
I never liked Turbo alloys (Turbo 2 alloys even less) But the centre locks are beautiful, many claim them to be more trouble than they're worth (they say the same about PCCBs too), so I may need to revisit this point in a year or two.
I think it's an astonishingly good car, and one I truly enjoy driving.
Hope some part of that helped you, if I can be of any further use, just yell.
I only really test drove the S to try out a PDK Turbo, to make a valid comparison with the manual, and lets be honest if you're going to get a Turbo PDK, you may as well go for the S, such are used prices.
The first thing I noticed was the brakes, my Gen1 was purchased with new disks/pads all round so the brakes where just fine, but the PCCBs on the S where astonishing, so sharp, I needed to re-calibrate in order to slow/stop smoothly.
Secondly the ride is much improved, more supple and compliant, yet the front is so pointy, again, by a degree that surprised me.
Don't get me wrong, I would never describe the Gen1 as being laggy, far from it, but, you're always aware you're driving a Turbo motor (albeit a very, very good one), the engine in the S is so free from lag you could almost believe it's not blown, and the step in power is more pronounced than perhaps you might expect. A minor point but it needs mentioning, all this and better economy too. Some say you don't buy a Turbo for economy (and they'd be right) but who wouldn't wish for a greater tank range. The week after purchase I covered 400 miles on a tank.
Lastly (apples and oranges here) I came to the Gen1 from an M3 SMG, and I loved the gearbox, it was always at the back of my mind that I would miss the paddle shift (and indeed I did as it turned out), but the SMG box is one that you could never really use in Auto, and quality changes in "S" mode (I always used S5) demanded a high degree of interaction with the throttle. NO such issues here, PDK can be used in auto (D) all day long and it seldom puts a foot wrong. But it can just as easily (possibly too easily) be used in manual, the standard program is just fine for 95% of the time. The rest of the time there is SPORT and SPORT PLUS, even in SPORT PLUS changes are never jerky or lumpy.
I have always rejected the argument that something can be too good, but it's perhaps here where that comes close, there's no particular skill required, to move up and down the box swiftly and with great ease.
I know PCM3 has detractors, but 3 is a major (and worthwhile) jump over 2.
The iPod interface is intuitive and efficient, and the Bluetooth is spot on. The Nav (by the standard of any £100 TomTom is pi$$ poor to be honest) is adequate, much better than PCM2 but still poor. The CD/DVD changer is integrated into the head unit, and with the Nav now HDD based, usefull space is freed up in the boot.
I never liked Turbo alloys (Turbo 2 alloys even less) But the centre locks are beautiful, many claim them to be more trouble than they're worth (they say the same about PCCBs too), so I may need to revisit this point in a year or two.
I think it's an astonishingly good car, and one I truly enjoy driving.
Hope some part of that helped you, if I can be of any further use, just yell.
Edited by FeelingLucky on Thursday 24th October 18:14
ferdi p said:
Been offered a 2010 997 Turbo S Coupe, 5000 miles...
Can get for 76k... Any thoughts on if that's a good price at this time of year ?
That's a very fair price on those low miles unless an odd colour scheme or some other negative.Can get for 76k... Any thoughts on if that's a good price at this time of year ?
Could you PM me the details if decide you're not interested? Thanks.
Thanks LL, very useful and positive experience, much appreciated.
I guess I need to drive both variants and go from there
Can anyone confirm whether i have the correct info / assumption on the sports chrono on Gen II turbos. From what i understand both the standard Turbo (with SC) and Turbo S when set to 'Sport plus' setting deliver the same torque figures ? (albeit it for a temp 10 secs in the Turbo) ?
I guess I need to drive both variants and go from there
Can anyone confirm whether i have the correct info / assumption on the sports chrono on Gen II turbos. From what i understand both the standard Turbo (with SC) and Turbo S when set to 'Sport plus' setting deliver the same torque figures ? (albeit it for a temp 10 secs in the Turbo) ?
pdj81 said:
Thanks LL, very useful and positive experience, much appreciated.
I guess I need to drive both variants and go from there
Can anyone confirm whether i have the correct info / assumption on the sports chrono on Gen II turbos. From what i understand both the standard Turbo (with SC) and Turbo S when set to 'Sport plus' setting deliver the same torque figures ? (albeit it for a temp 10 secs in the Turbo) ?
The answer is fairly simple on paper, when you are in the car though the answer is not as straight-forward.I guess I need to drive both variants and go from there
Can anyone confirm whether i have the correct info / assumption on the sports chrono on Gen II turbos. From what i understand both the standard Turbo (with SC) and Turbo S when set to 'Sport plus' setting deliver the same torque figures ? (albeit it for a temp 10 secs in the Turbo) ?
On paper, once you press 'Sport' (or Sport Plus) the Sports Chrono on the Turbo gives a Torque boost for 'up to' 10 seconds , no bhp increase.
On the Turbo S, this boost is 'permanent'.
I could be corrected here but I believe the definition of 'permanent' is not what you would expect.
The torque boost only occurs between mid-range 2100 and 4000rpm's only in both cars, once the 4000rpm region is breached the torque overboost cuts off.
So, even in the S, this boost is not 'permanent' or 'permanently available'.
For this reason, unless you are in a drag race between the two, you don't notice the difference between a similarly equipped non-S and the S in fast road driving, the gears and the accelerator pedal also need to be in the right places for the overboost to kick-in for the full 10 seconds.
For example if you are in 2nd gear at a low speed, you might see 10 seconds of overboost on both cars, you might not. If you are doing a fair whack and drop down a cog, if the RPM is above 4000 rpm you won't see any overboost.
This is why the drag times are very close between the two cars, eventhough the Turbo is 30BHP down.
The other complication is, I don't know the 'reload' time between the overboosts in the non-S, maybe this is documented somewhere ?
Also, you don't need to be in Sport Plus mode but this mode feels quicker as the gearshifts are near seamless and are almost 991 like, its just a relentless wall of torque and noise.
Thanks Carl, so from what you say the sports chrono in the turbo S doesn't not change its torque figures (as its permanently at 700nm) - all it does is alter throttle response, gear shifting times etc ? i know SC is standard on the S so just interested to see if in real world driving there is a huge amount of performance difference between the cars. It appears a bit but not so much
pdj81 said:
Thanks Carl, so from what you say the sports chrono in the turbo S doesn't not change its torque figures (as its permanently at 700nm) - all it does is alter throttle response, gear shifting times etc ? i know SC is standard on the S so just interested to see if in real world driving there is a huge amount of performance difference between the cars. It appears a bit but not so much
I *believe* that in the Turbo S, the BHP increase is constant but the overboost is still present for torque.Difference is, you are not limited to a 10 second burst but you would be still limited based on rev range.
I don't think the use of the term 'permanent' in the marketing/pr/reviews is accurate, 'always available if you are in the correct rev range' would be more accurate.
I think the main performance difference between the two cars (if not present on the Turbo) is PDK, PCCB's, PTV.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Friday 25th October 13:51
jhoneyball said:
Carl_Docklands said:
On paper, once you press 'Sport' (or Sport Plus) the Sports Chrono on the Turbo gives a Torque boost for 'up to' 10 seconds , no bhp increase.
How can you have a torque increase but no power increase? Edited by Carl_Docklands on Wednesday 30th October 18:39
Nice stealth-mobile! Be sure to play with the Sport Plus button, due to the speed of the shifts you will be surprised at the relentless urgency of the boost coming from a GT2. Be cautious of the bridgestone boots though, they are strictly a dry summer tyre but it also means the back end will be nice and playful.
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