Discussion
Mermaid said:
KevinBird said:
pistolp said:
Picked up my 997.2 RS on Sat from a well known Porsche Independent, they told me of a 300k RHD 4.0 and a 250K LHD, although that only had 700 miles or thereabouts. Stunning prices.
Makes this look good valuehttp://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/997...
They are getting another one apparently....
Cheib said:
JZM have just sold a LHD one for £170k
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/997...
They are getting another one apparently....
That car had spent quite some time at the 'Ring and had Sabine Schmitz signature on the underside of the bonnet.... Caveat Emptor!http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/997...
They are getting another one apparently....
I am just telling you what I was told by JZM at the weekend. Please feel free to decide whether they are speaking gospel or not, he had no reason to tell porkies to me. As an owner of a RHD car I can't see the benefit in talking up values of left hookers to me. But the breaking news is.....someone has paid a small fortune for a car in 2014 and more than they needed to! That sums up the market.
pistolp said:
Picked up my 997.2 RS on Sat from a well known Porsche Independent, they told me of a 300k RHD 4.0 and a 250K LHD, although that only had 700 miles or thereabouts. Stunning prices.
Having driven my this weekend, there's no way I could sell it. It's just perfect.
Agree.......the more I drive the Rs4.0 the commitment to keep just grows, unless of course I was offered a Ridiculous price Having driven my this weekend, there's no way I could sell it. It's just perfect.
.....What I find interesting is that there are PH'ers saying these cars won't lose value from these massive levels.....I am not talking about the 4.0 specifically but it seems like what I would call genuine enthusiasts (Your average PH'er) believe that these prices are the new norm. Personally I don't believe it. Car prices are up 1000% and more in some cases on the last ten years with no retracement....when the wider world sorts itself out I think car prices come off. I have no idea what the right price is for a 4.0RS but judging by some of the comments it must be that low mileage RHD cars are in the £250 to £300k bracket. Huge money IMHO!
I agree. I think cars are ridiculously over valued at the moment. There are lots of people buying cars to make money. At the end of the day most of today's buyers are investors. Once the tidal wave of appreciation slows, we will see more cars being sold and the tide will go out so to speak....
If you're not using your car and it's not going up in value, then why keep it? These people aren't using their F40s and F50s, 964rs' etc. They are sitting on them. It can't last. I on the other hand will continue to use and enjoy my cars come what may.
If you're not using your car and it's not going up in value, then why keep it? These people aren't using their F40s and F50s, 964rs' etc. They are sitting on them. It can't last. I on the other hand will continue to use and enjoy my cars come what may.
pistolp said:
If you're not using your car and it's not going up in value, then why keep it? These people aren't using their F40s and F50s, 964rs' etc. They are sitting on them. It can't last.
I don't think anybody can seriously dispute what you are saying ie at some point prices will fall. I think the real question is 'when prices fall how far will they fall?' 5%? 10%? 25%?A lot of buyers/investors are viewing and holding cars as they do 'art'. So lack of 'use' as a car may not be relevant in the long run. I'm no expert and do not follow art prices but I know certain categories have gone up a lot in last 5/10 years - have they then fallen dramatically or just come of a little and gone sideways?
I suppose my point is that because prices have gone up a lot in last few years does it mean at some point they have to fall a lot? Perhaps prices will just come back a bit and then do nothing for a few years?
What do I know also!? Its a good question you ask. For me the key difference is that people who have bought art etc tend to be art enthusiasts. As in they aren't buying it solely with a commercial/investor hat on. I am not sure that is so true with the recent profile of car buyer.
It is all conjecture though. At the end of the day none of us knows. I bought my last F40 in 2009 for 350k. It was a lovely car and I wouldn't pay over that again. So for me I will wait for cars to fall back to those sorts of levels. If they don't ever do that then it is no skin off my back, I have better things to do with my money. To stay with the F40 example is useful here, how many buyers are there are 700k+? I wouldn't have thought that many. There would be a lot more further down the price spectrum and that is the point, when people start to want to recycle their money and there are motivated sellers (more cars around generally) then we will see a price correction. Probably a big one. It only needs the market to plateau or stall and for a few people to panic......
It is all conjecture though. At the end of the day none of us knows. I bought my last F40 in 2009 for 350k. It was a lovely car and I wouldn't pay over that again. So for me I will wait for cars to fall back to those sorts of levels. If they don't ever do that then it is no skin off my back, I have better things to do with my money. To stay with the F40 example is useful here, how many buyers are there are 700k+? I wouldn't have thought that many. There would be a lot more further down the price spectrum and that is the point, when people start to want to recycle their money and there are motivated sellers (more cars around generally) then we will see a price correction. Probably a big one. It only needs the market to plateau or stall and for a few people to panic......
The only balance to this argument is that Porsche for the real rarities are only starting to catch-up with others.
If new owners are the driver for longer term collectible demand, Porsche must be gaining ground over the likes of Ferrari, Aston Martin etc ...
Specialist support, original build quality and spare parts availability all seem to be feeding the classic market, as Porsche should wish to ...
Time will tell.
If new owners are the driver for longer term collectible demand, Porsche must be gaining ground over the likes of Ferrari, Aston Martin etc ...
Specialist support, original build quality and spare parts availability all seem to be feeding the classic market, as Porsche should wish to ...
Time will tell.
pistolp said:
the key difference is that people who have bought art etc tend to be art enthusiasts. As in they aren't buying it solely with a commercial/investor hat on..
I'm not sure how true that is. Amazing how many City Boys suddenly become 'interested' in 'art' when they think they see a quick buck to be made. Same as 'Classic Cars'. I've had 2 city friends, with no previous real interest in classic cars, call me recently to ask 'what car should I 'invest' a £100K in'? Most blokes have at least a little interest in art and cars...this interest increases when they think there a few quid to be made...especially as it helps get clearance to buy from 'er indoors! I think the 'panic sell' school of thought is linked to what happened in 1990 (when F40's were nearly a million pounds - 2 or 3 times the price of a Chelsea terraced house, its the other way round now) and there was a lot of buying on finance going on. I sold my Fiat 124 Spider for £12k in 1990 - 20 years later they've only just got back to that absolute level - so in real terms a long way to go...possibly
For sure my 2 city mates will not be panic selling if their £100k cars drop to £75k, its peanuts to these guys - same reason they haven't sold their Hirsts at a loss.
But hey, its all conjecture....what do I know!?
'
BMCG said:
Saw it this morning... Absolutely stunning...BMCG said:
Looks very familiar!mollytherocker said:
One of the best Porsches ever made in the best colour they have ever produced, mexico.
Its cheap....
Which should be a ridiculous thing to say, however I reckon that it will be sold within a week. Assuming that it hasn't gone already. And by definition, that would make you correct...Its cheap....
I saw it at Reading when it was going through pre-delivery. It is a bit of a stunner. Bit of a shame that stefan1 put less than 5k miles on it, but I guess he will now get a couple of hundred thousand reasons to vindicate not really using it much...
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