997.1 RS slow speed, straight damp road, lost control, why?

[Dblue]

mrdemon said:

GT3 is not really a good road car full stop imo :-)

But you get the lovers and the haters. I love them but not for road use.

As for speeds, most people will be doing a ton plus in their Porsches on motorways even on damp roads on PS2, you see it every day.
Porsche will only sell you a N spec tyre and think that a N spec CUP in the wet is safe as houses and send you on your way, but will not fit you a Pilot supersport and say that's unfit for your car and dangerous !!

Not that you had cups on it, but then why even own A RS and fit PS2 anyway ?

sell it and buy a car better made for the road is my advice :-), these cars are well over hyped on here.

what's that, the 3rd straight line spin at legal speeds this year on this forum even inc the 991 GT3!!!

if you guys are not spinning the things get over 80 mph on a B road and the cars unsettled again, I am sorry but what's the point of these cars on the road ?

This is imho, so the normal posters can do one and not quote me :-) (likes that's going to happen lol )

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 16th April 11:30

You know whats going to happen here don't you? Its been done to death on loads of other threads.

The GT3 is a brilliant road car, it just is. The things it does better than , for example, a Cayman R remain as strong an argument as ever. It does not throw itself off the road at the slightest whim nor does it typically spin in a straight line. It does give feedback that can make you nervous of what's happening because of the clarity of it.

I do not accept its anything other than wonderful on a typical B road in the UK, it has enough compliance (Too much for a track day special IMO ) fantastic damping and its compact, seriously quick and sounds wonderful.

Unless you really are using it for a high percentage of time on a track (In which case it needs altered geo and stiffer springs IMHO) then running softer, more compromised and more expensive cups is crazy. the PS2 is a pretty damn sensible option and gives 90% of the grip , superior grip in cold and damp conditions and immeasurably superior grip on a soaking wet road.

[V8KSN]

[Posh868]

mikem7709 said:

I've just replaced the PS2s on mine with a fresh set as they were 5yrs old. The rears were on 4mm and the fronts still on 6mm, I've put the fronts onto my daily driver and can't believe how little grip they have - they squeal in the dry and light up the ESP in the wet.

Haven't driven the GT3 on its fresh rubber yet but I'm expecting a marked improvement.

This is a good point! The tyres were over 3 years old ..

Rockster said:

Even with new tires on my Porsches I slow down on damp roads. The tires do not play well with water on the road. And if it is cool, cold, you are just asking for trouble.

3mm tread depth is not worn out by the legal definition but I know from experience tires worn down to this point are slippery on damp roads like would not believe.

Alignment, aka geo, is probably not a contributing factor though bad geo can result in uneven tire wear. Then what you have is are tires that are half good, half no good, if the wear is uneven across the rear tread faces, which is a good sign the geo is bad.

When you replace the tires have the car treated to a proper geo to be sure you and the new tires start out right

The 3mm comment is also a good point, reducing traction even further ..
The tyres that it spun with are evenly worn, probably implying no geometry issue ..

Steve Rance said:

It probably won't be the diff. That only locks under hard braking or acceleration. If you weren't pushing and you were on sports it's unlikely it's your geo unless the car is pretty much undrivable everywhere. More likely to be a pack of oil or Diesil on the road ie something external.

I'd get your geo checked as a matter or course though.

yes id agree, diesel is a distinct possibility, thought that at the time..

I welcome all opinions; Mr Demon, post the links for the other straight line legal spins, I cant seem to find them and want to have a read of that. And when you're in an RS with your foot planted, you'll realise why the car is so addictive.. nothing compares! But yes, she's sometimes a scary monster.

[boxsey]

Posh868 said:

Whatever happened, better driving skills may have saved me. I never said I was good at handling this car, it seems like a bit of a handful compared to the BMW! When she goes, you've got to be quick and enter the exact right input to save yourself. The BMW would have never aquaplaned there and I do that stretch at 85mph always! I was purposely driving the Porsche 'slow' at 70 to be safe. Not slow enough! .. Oh, and I'll get the geometry checked again ASAP.

So, how fast do you other Porsche guys drive on a (lets say) wet motorway?
Is there anywhere I can go (apart from Silverstone) to learn how to drift this thing safely to improve my handling skills? I'm looking for carparks, flat tarmac'd areas, drift days at venues, lonely wide roads, etc.

I can recommend a CAT driver training day at Millbrook. You can do a specific drift and over grip limit handling day. Even on a wet surface you will be quite surprised how much provoking it takes to get the car really out of shape, whether it be an old 911 or newer GT3. They'll get you spinning it eventually though.

[pistolp]

Yea GT3s are rubbish road cars. For me a ford focus is more practical, has better mpg and rides better too. I don't get what all the fuss is about...

[seawise]

whats all this nonsense about ? the GT3 is a bh and i spanked it.

TQ

[lemmingjames]

seawise said:

whats all this nonsense about ? the GT3 is a bh and i spanked it.

TQ

quoted so we know who has got a dodgy RS in the future ;-)

[SteelySteve]

Rarely used tyres harden over time, they become pretty useless in the dry and dangerous in damp conditions

Edited by SteelySteve on Wednesday 16th April 19:30

[graemel]

boxsey said:

I can recommend a CAT driver training day at Millbrook. You can do a specific drift and over grip limit handling day. Even on a wet surface you will be quite surprised how much provoking it takes to get the car really out of shape, whether it be an old 911 or newer GT3. They'll get you spinning it eventually though.

+1 a good mate of a mate. Highly recommended. Once you have this under your belt you will feel in charge again.

[Kawasicki]

What's the point of buying the RS version if you don't fit decent/fresh(ish) tyres? Or at least have a shot at learning to drive it as it was designed to be driven?

I'm confused. It's like spending 10k on a hifi and then not bothering to clean your ears.

[pistolp]

Not everyone realises that as a matter of course. You only start asking questions when you start having problems!

[ORD]

I am neither a troll nor a GT3 doubter, but I kinda agree with a tiny bit of what MrD says. No car (on 3mm or otherwise) should spin in the circumstances described. External factors are hopefully to blame.

It may just be internet hysteria, but I would currently think twice about driving a GT3 on a wet road, which is a shame.

[lemmingjames]

ORD said:

I am neither a troll nor a GT3 doubter, but I kinda agree with a tiny bit of what MrD says. No car (on 3mm or otherwise) should spin in the circumstances described. External factors are hopefully to blame.

It may just be internet hysteria, but I would currently think twice about driving a GT3 on a wet road, which is a shame.

Its ok, you grow a set of balls when you drive a gt3 on a wet road, they get hairy when you drive them on cups/without tc etc

[Pip1968]

ORD said:

I am neither a troll nor a GT3 doubter, but I kinda agree with a tiny bit of what MrD says. No car (on 3mm or otherwise) should spin in the circumstances described. External factors are hopefully to blame.

It may just be internet hysteria, but I would currently think twice about driving a GT3 on a wet road, which is a shame.

For some it is the thrill of the 'unknown' ,exciting jitteriness and intense feedback that is part of the thrill of ownership of the GT3/RS. Most new cars are so 'safe' you may as well be playing a vidoe game. Each to their own of course.

The bottom line is that with such a large patch of tyre in contact with the road they do not like standing water. I have driven on the autobahn on the outskirts of Brussels and had a few twitchy moments in heavy rain. It is a good reminder for drivers to adjust to the road conditions.

I have looked for the 991 GT3 that spun and crashed for no apparent reason and it looks as if the post has been removed - probably 'legal' reasons.

Pip

[gfreeman]

Once upon a time I stupidly drove to Spa on very worn cups when the heavens opened just south of Folkstone - and continued for most of the rest of the trip.

Fingertip control, a tight sphincter and large cahunas were swung into action.

By the time I got to Stavelot my underpants had been sucked into the old starfish and I couldn't see over the steering wheel thingy...

My, how we larfed....

[ORD]

lemmingjames said:

ORD said:

I am neither a troll nor a GT3 doubter, but I kinda agree with a tiny bit of what MrD says. No car (on 3mm or otherwise) should spin in the circumstances described. External factors are hopefully to blame.

It may just be internet hysteria, but I would currently think twice about driving a GT3 on a wet road, which is a shame.

Its ok, you grow a set of balls when you drive a gt3 on a wet road, they get hairy when you drive them on cups/without tc etc

Knock yourself out. I would rather take risks over which I have some control, especially with someone else in the car and others using the road. The idea that driving a car that might spin on a straight damp road makes you a real man is pretty laughable. By all means put feeling big ahead of the safety of yourself, your passenger and other road users if you must, but that makes you pretty much the same as a chav spinning around town at 50mph in a Corsa with an aftermarket exhaust.

[V8KSN]

Hang on, lets set some things straight shall we!

The standard Cup tyres are amazing on hot dry days when they are fully warmed up

The standard Cup tyres are really quite terrible on wet days cold or warm

A brilliant compromise is the Michelin Pilot Super Sport

As a whole, the 997 GT3 is a brilliant SAFE car that has never once spat me (or anyone I know who has driven one) off the road!
It's a comfortable but stiffly sprung proper sports car that anyone (including my wife) can drive.

There are many people who don't 'get' the GT3 and think its a massive compromise and I am getting tired of having to defend it whenever threads about the GT3 are posted.

[mrdemon]

note to self, "don't follow GT3 owners to close in the damp, esp ones with small non hairy balls " ;-p

that's about all that's come out of this thread then :-)

[lemmingjames]

mrdemon said:

note to self, "don't follow GT3 owners to close in the damp, esp ones with small non hairy balls " ;-p

that's about all that's come out of this thread then :-)

+ those that do drive in inclement weather, are quite clearly driving gods amongst you mere mortals

[chriscoates81]

mrdemon said:

note to self, "don't follow GT3 owners to close in the damp, esp ones with small non hairy balls " ;-p

that's about all that's come out of this thread then :-)

It actually sounds like the safest place to be is right behind them as they all spin sideways.