Discussion
You did have me missing at DN12 this time....I would have brought a 6GT3!
Agree with your points though. I think the insurance situation has been a masterstroke for the providers. There is so little competition that they have managed to retain the premium, reduce cover, and reduce the chances of an accident at the more dangerous circuits.
Having said that, the newer GT cars are even more expensive so I guess they come out even less on trackdays...so GT tracking becomes the preserve of the minority wealthier segment/higher risk owners??
Agree with your points though. I think the insurance situation has been a masterstroke for the providers. There is so little competition that they have managed to retain the premium, reduce cover, and reduce the chances of an accident at the more dangerous circuits.
Having said that, the newer GT cars are even more expensive so I guess they come out even less on trackdays...so GT tracking becomes the preserve of the minority wealthier segment/higher risk owners??
LaSource said:
You did have me missing at DN12 this time....I would have brought a 6GT3!
Agree with your points though. I think the insurance situation has been a masterstroke for the providers. There is so little competition that they have managed to retain the premium, reduce cover, and reduce the chances of an accident at the more dangerous circuits.
Having said that, the newer GT cars are even more expensive so I guess they come out even less on trackdays...so GT tracking becomes the preserve of the minority wealthier segment/higher risk owners??
Yes, that would have been a 30% increase! Colin is right, double whammy of insurance and rising value have damped it down a bit thus far. That stupid 100k threshold, a totally arbitrary number that some xl weilding suit has come up with makes it even worse.Agree with your points though. I think the insurance situation has been a masterstroke for the providers. There is so little competition that they have managed to retain the premium, reduce cover, and reduce the chances of an accident at the more dangerous circuits.
Having said that, the newer GT cars are even more expensive so I guess they come out even less on trackdays...so GT tracking becomes the preserve of the minority wealthier segment/higher risk owners??
ttdan said:
Yes, that would have been a 30% increase! Colin is right, double whammy of insurance and rising value have damped it down a bit thus far. That stupid 100k threshold, a totally arbitrary number that some xl weilding suit has come up with makes it even worse.
How was the M3? A fair alternative to a 6GT3?DiscoColin said:
LaSource said:
6GT3s still do get used as intended...its the 6RSs which have stopped doing active duty on the whole. However, once the 6GT3s climb above £100k I can see them also retreating from active service.
All very sad (and understandable) of course...
To put this into perspective - at DN12 the other week I counted only 3 UK 996 GT3s and no 996RSs. And they were still the most common kind of GT3 amongst the UK-plated contingent. For DN regulars that would have to be considered a positive collapse of the number of them there, and it does fit with what I have seen at other track days on the continent this year. Part of it is the value, part of it the per-event insurance costs in Europe that have arrived on the policies most popular with TD users. But they are vanishing, and fast.All very sad (and understandable) of course...
It is quite a drastic shift when you consider how ubiquitous they were not that long ago
LaSource said:
ttdan said:
Yes, that would have been a 30% increase! Colin is right, double whammy of insurance and rising value have damped it down a bit thus far. That stupid 100k threshold, a totally arbitrary number that some xl weilding suit has come up with makes it even worse.
How was the M3? A fair alternative to a 6GT3?This, for example and a very competent driver, was a road car conversion. Setra racing M3 Worth a watch :-)
Edited for bad spelling..
Edited by ttdan on Saturday 1st August 16:46
DiscoColin said:
LaSource said:
6GT3s still do get used as intended...its the 6RSs which have stopped doing active duty on the whole. However, once the 6GT3s climb above £100k I can see them also retreating from active service.
All very sad (and understandable) of course...
To put this into perspective - at DN12 the other week I counted only 3 UK 996 GT3s and no 996RSs. And they were still the most common kind of GT3 amongst the UK-plated contingent. For DN regulars that would have to be considered a positive collapse of the number of them there, and it does fit with what I have seen at other track days on the continent this year. Part of it is the value, part of it the per-event insurance costs in Europe that have arrived on the policies most popular with TD users. But they are vanishing, and fast.All very sad (and understandable) of course...
It is quite a drastic shift when you consider how ubiquitous they were not that long ago
My passenger and I were marvelling at how it's possible to do 2 days at the Ring then blast home to the UK in comfort - will be a real shame if less and less of these magnificent cars are not used on track. It's not the be all and end all of their existence as they make epic road cars, but for me the track environment helps to understand just how truly able they are - plus they were designed with the activity firmly in mind!
When I was looking for a step up in a track car a couple of years ago a 996.2 GT3 was fairly unloved and made an obvious choice for those of a rear-engined persuasion. Now to cough up £75k ish for a clubbie makes you think twice taking on track when you are looking down the barrel of 10% excess, additional premium for Euro trips etc. If it continues above £100k what will people track then? Modified 996 C2? Problem is once you've had a Mezger, nothing else comes close...
On a happier note our European cousins seem much less affected as there quite a few euro plated GT3s in the paddock at DN12 inc. a white 997.1 on slicks, a black modified 3.8RS with huge wing and CAE shifter plus a RS 4.0 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately we lost a 6.1GT3 into the armco at mini-karrusell. A surprising amount of 991 GT3s out though which was a welcome surprise!
Colin were you in the Gen2 black 997GT3 on UK plates? Think we waved to you at the Eurotunnel?
Pic of mine (6.1 and 6.2 GT3s gone but not forgotten)
I'm off to the detailing forum now for some polishing tips
Cheers
Slodge
Edited by slodge on Friday 31st July 22:18
Edited by slodge on Friday 31st July 22:19
slodge said:
Colin were you in the Gen2 black 997GT3 on UK plates? Think we waved to you at the Eurotunnel?
Yep - that was indeed me. For logistic reasons my usual convoy were all aiming at different Chunnels on this trip. I was mostly camped over in the GP pits (split the cost of a garage with the usual suspects from 911uk), but did visit the DH car park a few times and saw your car both there and out on track 
Awesome event this time though - one of the best ever. Nice to see some 991 GT3s out there, but less good to see the white one with a little damage from its spin
ttdan said:
Hmmm, i think not yet would be the appropriate answer. My particular one needs some further tweaking, tyres, roll bars and diff specifically. potential is definitely there though. Car is nicely balanced. What i have learned is that, out of the box, a GT3 is so much closer to what you need. The BM needs many little upgrades (from a std road car) to get it close. All doable, all relatively cheap but you need to learn this stuff as you go.
This, for example and a very competent driver, was a road car conversion. Setra racing M3 Worth a watch :-)
Nice vid. This, for example and a very competent driver, was a road car conversion. Setra racing M3 Worth a watch :-)
However, that car is a bit too 'track only' with the carpets and non essential parts removed. I would rather it still was a 'drive it there, drive it round, drive it back' proposition...a la GT3.
It will be interesting to see whether your end result is a good alternative.
slodge said:
Yes a little sad agreed - last year they were probably the most populous! Tanvir you were missed!
My passenger and I were marvelling at how it's possible to do 2 days at the Ring then blast home to the UK in comfort - will be a real shame if less and less of these magnificent cars are not used on track. It's not the be all and end all of their existence as they make epic road cars, but for me the track environment helps to understand just how truly able they are - plus they were designed with the activity firmly in mind!
When I was looking for a step up in a track car a couple of years ago a 996.2 GT3 was fairly unloved and made an obvious choice for those of a rear-engined persuasion. Now to cough up £75k ish for a clubbie makes you think twice taking on track when you are looking down the barrel of 10% excess, additional premium for Euro trips etc. If it continues above £100k what will people track then? Modified 996 C2? Problem is once you've had a Mezger, nothing else comes close...
On a happier note our European cousins seem much less affected as there quite a few euro plated GT3s in the paddock at DN12 inc. a white 997.1 on slicks, a black modified 3.8RS with huge wing and CAE shifter plus a RS 4.0 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately we lost a 6.1GT3 into the armco at mini-karrusell. A surprising amount of 991 GT3s out though which was a welcome surprise!
Colin were you in the Gen2 black 997GT3 on UK plates? Think we waved to you at the Eurotunnel?
Pic of mine (6.1 and 6.2 GT3s gone but not forgotten)
I'm off to the detailing forum now for some polishing tips
Cheers
Slodge
The mezger cars are magical...a few more will be around at track days for a whileMy passenger and I were marvelling at how it's possible to do 2 days at the Ring then blast home to the UK in comfort - will be a real shame if less and less of these magnificent cars are not used on track. It's not the be all and end all of their existence as they make epic road cars, but for me the track environment helps to understand just how truly able they are - plus they were designed with the activity firmly in mind!
When I was looking for a step up in a track car a couple of years ago a 996.2 GT3 was fairly unloved and made an obvious choice for those of a rear-engined persuasion. Now to cough up £75k ish for a clubbie makes you think twice taking on track when you are looking down the barrel of 10% excess, additional premium for Euro trips etc. If it continues above £100k what will people track then? Modified 996 C2? Problem is once you've had a Mezger, nothing else comes close...
On a happier note our European cousins seem much less affected as there quite a few euro plated GT3s in the paddock at DN12 inc. a white 997.1 on slicks, a black modified 3.8RS with huge wing and CAE shifter plus a RS 4.0 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately we lost a 6.1GT3 into the armco at mini-karrusell. A surprising amount of 991 GT3s out though which was a welcome surprise!
Colin were you in the Gen2 black 997GT3 on UK plates? Think we waved to you at the Eurotunnel?
Pic of mine (6.1 and 6.2 GT3s gone but not forgotten)
I'm off to the detailing forum now for some polishing tips
Cheers
Slodge
Edited by slodge on Friday 31st July 22:18
Edited by slodge on Friday 31st July 22:19
Good to see your onwards and upwards journey!
Fear not, I'll be back!
slodge said:
Yes a little sad agreed - last year they were probably the most populous! Tanvir you were missed!
My passenger and I were marvelling at how it's possible to do 2 days at the Ring then blast home to the UK in comfort - will be a real shame if less and less of these magnificent cars are not used on track. It's not the be all and end all of their existence as they make epic road cars, but for me the track environment helps to understand just how truly able they are - plus they were designed with the activity firmly in mind!
When I was looking for a step up in a track car a couple of years ago a 996.2 GT3 was fairly unloved and made an obvious choice for those of a rear-engined persuasion. Now to cough up £75k ish for a clubbie makes you think twice taking on track when you are looking down the barrel of 10% excess, additional premium for Euro trips etc. If it continues above £100k what will people track then? Modified 996 C2? Problem is once you've had a Mezger, nothing else comes close...
On a happier note our European cousins seem much less affected as there quite a few euro plated GT3s in the paddock at DN12 inc. a white 997.1 on slicks, a black modified 3.8RS with huge wing and CAE shifter plus a RS 4.0 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately we lost a 6.1GT3 into the armco at mini-karrusell. A surprising amount of 991 GT3s out though which was a welcome surprise!
Colin were you in the Gen2 black 997GT3 on UK plates? Think we waved to you at the Eurotunnel?
Pic of mine (6.1 and 6.2 GT3s gone but not forgotten)
I'm off to the detailing forum now for some polishing tips
Cheers
Slodge
If you are worried about values / excesses / damaging the car then for £35K you can buy and build a 450hp e36 m3 that will destroy a GT3!!!! It will be stripped, fully caged, a proper motorsport diff, 3 way adjustable suspension and weigh in around 1200 kilos with you in it. If you run it on slicks they are devastatingly fast and they do have a much better balance. Don't get me wrong I love my 996 RS, but my M3 is much more entertaining on circuit.My passenger and I were marvelling at how it's possible to do 2 days at the Ring then blast home to the UK in comfort - will be a real shame if less and less of these magnificent cars are not used on track. It's not the be all and end all of their existence as they make epic road cars, but for me the track environment helps to understand just how truly able they are - plus they were designed with the activity firmly in mind!
When I was looking for a step up in a track car a couple of years ago a 996.2 GT3 was fairly unloved and made an obvious choice for those of a rear-engined persuasion. Now to cough up £75k ish for a clubbie makes you think twice taking on track when you are looking down the barrel of 10% excess, additional premium for Euro trips etc. If it continues above £100k what will people track then? Modified 996 C2? Problem is once you've had a Mezger, nothing else comes close...
On a happier note our European cousins seem much less affected as there quite a few euro plated GT3s in the paddock at DN12 inc. a white 997.1 on slicks, a black modified 3.8RS with huge wing and CAE shifter plus a RS 4.0 if I remember correctly. Unfortunately we lost a 6.1GT3 into the armco at mini-karrusell. A surprising amount of 991 GT3s out though which was a welcome surprise!
Colin were you in the Gen2 black 997GT3 on UK plates? Think we waved to you at the Eurotunnel?
Pic of mine (6.1 and 6.2 GT3s gone but not forgotten)
I'm off to the detailing forum now for some polishing tips
Cheers
Slodge
Edited by slodge on Friday 31st July 22:18
Edited by slodge on Friday 31st July 22:19
I was talking to a dealer about a car he may have coming in soon - similar miles to yours, excellent colour (as is yours) but comfort spec and without K400. I think CS spec is an advantage and the K400 a disadvantage (price wise). I believe the car was being bought in for mid £60s and would be retailed for low £70s. Condition etc was supposed to immaculate.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
porschegeoff said:
Sadly, I've decided its time to part with my 996.1 SY CS. Has done 51K miles and largely stock bar a K400 kit. Any idea what a sensible £££ is in the current climate? I think some of the prices asked for GT3's over the past few months has been a tad optimistic.
A P/X Cayman R? blackmamba said:
I was talking to a dealer about a car he may have coming in soon - similar miles to yours, excellent colour (as is yours) but comfort spec and without K400. I think CS spec is an advantage and the K400 a disadvantage (price wise). I believe the car was being bought in for mid £60s and would be retailed for low £70s. Condition etc was supposed to immaculate.
Hope that helps.
Why would the K400 be a disadvantage? Having driven a factory fresh rebuilt Mk1 CS on 5k miles and mine, I would never bother with a standard car. The K400 is a kit, which adds to the experience. It is not as if Manthey is not good enough to be owned by Porsche or win a few things for them Hope that helps.
P.S. Yes, as the owner of the first K400 ever made, I am biased...
porschegeoff said:
Sadly, I've decided its time to part with my 996.1 SY CS. Has done 51K miles and largely stock bar a K400 kit. Any idea what a sensible £££ is in the current climate? I think some of the prices asked for GT3's over the past few months has been a tad optimistic.
mine sold recently and very quickly once a sensible price tag had been put on itit was a very similar car to yours
feel free to mail me for numbers
Cheburator mk2 said:
Why would the K400 be a disadvantage? Having driven a factory fresh rebuilt Mk1 CS on 5k miles and mine, I would never bother with a standard car. The K400 is a kit, which adds to the experience. It is not as if Manthey is not good enough to be owned by Porsche or win a few things for them
P.S. Yes, as the owner of the first K400 ever made, I am biased...
I agree but I think there are some dealers out there who only want cars as they left the factory even if the upgrades are reliable and add to the driving experience. P.S. Yes, as the owner of the first K400 ever made, I am biased...
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff