Discussion
Harris_I said:
LaSource said:
"At the unveiling of the 911 R at Geneva earlier in the year it was interesting talking to Porsche GT boss Andreas Preuninger and hearing him acknowledge the car was built to tempt those disillusioned with recent 911s back into the dealerships."Oh please. Tempt them back? And say what? Sorry, no more R, have a turbo cab instead?
Every time I read Preuninger's latest guru-like pronouncement, it gets my back up.
Strangely the 996 GT3 has not enjoyed the same level of sustained rise as the other models, in fact the prices are now coming back down and still not many selling. 911V have had a silver one that has dropped from £60k to £57K and still not sold, meanwhile other dealers such as Cameron have just lopped 5K off there 2 cars in stock.
I think places like JZM are just lucky enough to be able to afford to try their luck but i can't see them shifting their cars all the time they are priced in the seventies???
I think somewhere late forties early fifties is where these will settle and sell fairly quickly as opposed to the same cars just sitting there for months on end.
I think places like JZM are just lucky enough to be able to afford to try their luck but i can't see them shifting their cars all the time they are priced in the seventies???
I think somewhere late forties early fifties is where these will settle and sell fairly quickly as opposed to the same cars just sitting there for months on end.
I think now is a great time to buy a 996gt3 . For whatever reason , partly GT4 , there is more supply than
Demand . This will pass as the 996 series comes out of the shadows like the 964s did after a long time being
Outcast . The 996 turbo seems to be leading the way at present , and as a previous owner of a 996Turbo S ,
I know which one is the truly special though under appreciated car .
Demand . This will pass as the 996 series comes out of the shadows like the 964s did after a long time being
Outcast . The 996 turbo seems to be leading the way at present , and as a previous owner of a 996Turbo S ,
I know which one is the truly special though under appreciated car .
Budflicker said:
Strangely the 996 GT3 has not enjoyed the same level of sustained rise as the other models, in fact the prices are now coming back down and still not many selling. 911V have had a silver one that has dropped from £60k to £57K and still not sold, meanwhile other dealers such as Cameron have just lopped 5K off there 2 cars in stock.
I think places like JZM are just lucky enough to be able to afford to try their luck but i can't see them shifting their cars all the time they are priced in the seventies???
I think somewhere late forties early fifties is where these will settle and sell fairly quickly as opposed to the same cars just sitting there for months on end.
Sounds like someone wants to buy a car on the cheap... For a 996 GT3 to sell in the late 40s, early fifties it would mean that the rest of the market has crashed. At £50k you are comparing it to a boggo 964 or 993. Having driven all of them, I know which one I would have. Also, consider this - a GT4 at £100k+ - a great car - have seen them in action etc. But not a touch on the 996 in terms of purity, involvement, heritage etc. I think places like JZM are just lucky enough to be able to afford to try their luck but i can't see them shifting their cars all the time they are priced in the seventies???
I think somewhere late forties early fifties is where these will settle and sell fairly quickly as opposed to the same cars just sitting there for months on end.
I know I am biased as I have one, but I love the fact that when browsing my repair/user manuals and other literature that I have for the early 996 Cup cars (Should get out more, I know) I cannot help but notice that this was the closest Porsche put a street car to a racer in the watercooled era. That counts for a lot, or to be more precise, will count for a lot.
Also, it is not the quickest, but in terms of driver involvement, the 996GT in all its iterations is amongst the best if not the best watercooled car. Equally happy out for a blat on a B-road, as well as the odd track day. That again counts for a lot to those in the know.
P.S. Remember, the 964RS could not be given away at £20k and I also remember travelling to Cardiff back in 2009 to buy a LHD 964 3.3 Turbo for £12.5k
The market decides on the selling price of these cars. As someone wrote earlier, there are a few cars which remain unsold, i wonder if a small price correction would have them all sold in a flash and the market would then recognise they were great value and the prices rise again.
From my selling experience it was torturous dealing with private buyers.... it seems the ones i spoke with were actually expecting a like new car.
Comparing the GT4 and or 993s prices with a 6GT3 price is academic in my view. Apples and oranges.
Saying that, there was a black manual 430 for sale recently which stuck around for months, the vendor put the price up by £10k and it sold in days!
From my selling experience it was torturous dealing with private buyers.... it seems the ones i spoke with were actually expecting a like new car.
Comparing the GT4 and or 993s prices with a 6GT3 price is academic in my view. Apples and oranges.
Saying that, there was a black manual 430 for sale recently which stuck around for months, the vendor put the price up by £10k and it sold in days!
Cheburator mk2 said:
Sounds like someone wants to buy a car on the cheap... For a 996 GT3 to sell in the late 40s, early fifties it would mean that the rest of the market has crashed. At £50k you are comparing it to a boggo 964 or 993.
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/893/996GT3Mk2/£57k at one of the best dealers going and sat there for months, what does that make it worth trade? £45k, suddenly not so crazy what i suggested is it???
Cheburator mk2 said:
I know I am biased as I have one,
Budflicker said:
Lovely car indeed, but:1. Worst of the comfort specs - no buckets and perhaps a bland colour (says the man with a Polar Silber car
2. High miles at 71,000 - it is 13yrs old, as they get older, the target mkt is more of the collector type for who 71,000 could be just too much? Reason I say this is that my 928 GTS 5-spd (only about 50 produced globally in RHD so rarer than a rare thing) would never be a collectors car despite a new engine and gearbox, because overall it has done 130k mile in 23yrs. Idle speculation on my behalf and in no way meant to slate the GT3 at 911V
3. Lastly, from memory a BMW dealer would expect to make gross margin of about 7k on a ///M car, which makes me think that your £13k was a bit ambitious for an Indy, but again, I am guessing and I may be totally off...
4. Overall though, you do raise a lot of valid points
5. Yes, I am biased
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Wednesday 20th April 15:07
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Wednesday 20th April 15:08
Cheburator mk2 said:
Lovely car indeed, but:
1. Worst of the comfort specs - no buckets and perhaps a bland colour (says the man with a Polar Silber car
Agreed on those points
2. High miles at 71,000 - it is 13yrs old, as they get older, the target mkt is more of the collector type for who 71,000 could be just too much.
Again agreed
3. Lastly, from memory a BMW dealer would expect to make gross margin of about 7k on a ///M car, which makes me think that your £13k was a bit ambitious.
At least £10k in a GT3, but at the moment with all the stock static I imagine a trade bid would be on the cheeky side of cheeky...
4. Overall though, you do raise a lot of valid points.
Thank you kind sir
5. Yes, I am biased
1. Worst of the comfort specs - no buckets and perhaps a bland colour (says the man with a Polar Silber car
Agreed on those points
2. High miles at 71,000 - it is 13yrs old, as they get older, the target mkt is more of the collector type for who 71,000 could be just too much.
Again agreed
3. Lastly, from memory a BMW dealer would expect to make gross margin of about 7k on a ///M car, which makes me think that your £13k was a bit ambitious.
At least £10k in a GT3, but at the moment with all the stock static I imagine a trade bid would be on the cheeky side of cheeky...
4. Overall though, you do raise a lot of valid points.
Thank you kind sir
5. Yes, I am biased
I recently sold my early 996 GT3 to a guy in Spain, he flew over went into central london to get the funds. I met him at he local station in the car, we went to Halfords where he purchased a sat nav, he then dropped me back at work and drove it all the way to Newcastle to see family, I'm in kent and never driven it more then 200 miles in one go as was only really a weekend toy. Then from Newcastle he drove all the way back to Spain.
MontyC said:
I recently sold my early 996 GT3 to a guy in Spain, he flew over went into central london to get the funds. I met him at he local station in the car, we went to Halfords where he purchased a sat nav, he then dropped me back at work and drove it all the way to Newcastle to see family, I'm in kent and never driven it more then 200 miles in one go as was only really a weekend toy. Then from Newcastle he drove all the way back to Spain.
Sounds like you did the right thing for the car. 
I think the early GT3's are going to be seen as the next step change in Porsche heritage collectables ..
The 21st century equivalent of the air-cooled to water-cooled debate ...
Mezger engined to other variants --- with the 9A1 still to really prove itself at 500bhp ---
Bomb proof, visceral, no driver aids, track focussed suspension and gearing options, compact, and now the same age as my RHD 964RS when I bought it for £43k ...
Given the grown in the Porsche brand customer base, why wouldn't those who grew up with the first GT3's drive prices to the same place that those who grew up with the 964RS have done ??
Yes prices are cyclical, but they don't make these cars any more. Porsche aren't allowed to make these cars any more, so they create modern heritage cars in numbers that are a moveable feast. 600 991R's have become 991 ? Sports classic / Speedster / you have to love 'em !
There will be probably be more RHD 991R's than there were RHD 996 GT3 MkI's --- and then you start talking about Clubsport versions ?
If 400 GT4's still leave new cars selling at a £25k premium, what should be the real value of a very very good 996GT3 ??
As an example, there were only 28 UK RHD 996 MkI CS' --- on any numbers / value scale how many RHD UK 996 GT3 RS were there ? 130 + ?
It's suggested that Weissach were give a free hand in making the first GT3 something to rival the 993RS and of course, homologate the 1999 996GT3R endurance racers. These are very different beasts from a "humble" Cup car ... and still are.
I'm told that the Gen1's were manufactured at Werks 1 if not Weissach ... which would make sense given their experience of 964RS / 993RS and their vision for the GT3 and GT3 Cup brands ...
And now GT4 (with I'm told GT5 now trademarked ??)
If Porsche's history is any clue to their future .... this is going to be fun !!
The 21st century equivalent of the air-cooled to water-cooled debate ...
Mezger engined to other variants --- with the 9A1 still to really prove itself at 500bhp ---
Bomb proof, visceral, no driver aids, track focussed suspension and gearing options, compact, and now the same age as my RHD 964RS when I bought it for £43k ...
Given the grown in the Porsche brand customer base, why wouldn't those who grew up with the first GT3's drive prices to the same place that those who grew up with the 964RS have done ??
Yes prices are cyclical, but they don't make these cars any more. Porsche aren't allowed to make these cars any more, so they create modern heritage cars in numbers that are a moveable feast. 600 991R's have become 991 ? Sports classic / Speedster / you have to love 'em !
There will be probably be more RHD 991R's than there were RHD 996 GT3 MkI's --- and then you start talking about Clubsport versions ?
If 400 GT4's still leave new cars selling at a £25k premium, what should be the real value of a very very good 996GT3 ??
As an example, there were only 28 UK RHD 996 MkI CS' --- on any numbers / value scale how many RHD UK 996 GT3 RS were there ? 130 + ?
It's suggested that Weissach were give a free hand in making the first GT3 something to rival the 993RS and of course, homologate the 1999 996GT3R endurance racers. These are very different beasts from a "humble" Cup car ... and still are.
I'm told that the Gen1's were manufactured at Werks 1 if not Weissach ... which would make sense given their experience of 964RS / 993RS and their vision for the GT3 and GT3 Cup brands ...
And now GT4 (with I'm told GT5 now trademarked ??)
If Porsche's history is any clue to their future .... this is going to be fun !!
People have been calling the 996 GT3 as the sleeper certainly for the last two or three years.
I think it's more about where the market prices 997's vs 996's....and I think a large part of the premium 997's attract is because there is a halo car i.e the 4.0 in the 997 range and because the 996 is the least loved 911 (talking generally). If 996 RS's start getting very strong money mayve that reprices the GT3...the car that seems to be getting very strong money at the moment though is the 997 Gen II RS..RPM had a PTS car which sold pretty quickly and was advertised for £225k!
I think it's more about where the market prices 997's vs 996's....and I think a large part of the premium 997's attract is because there is a halo car i.e the 4.0 in the 997 range and because the 996 is the least loved 911 (talking generally). If 996 RS's start getting very strong money mayve that reprices the GT3...the car that seems to be getting very strong money at the moment though is the 997 Gen II RS..RPM had a PTS car which sold pretty quickly and was advertised for £225k!
ChrisW. said:
I think the early GT3's are going to be seen as the next step change in Porsche heritage collectables ..
The 21st century equivalent of the air-cooled to water-cooled debate ...
Mezger engined to other variants --- with the 9A1 still to really prove itself at 500bhp ---
Bomb proof, visceral, no driver aids, track focussed suspension and gearing options, compact, and now the same age as my RHD 964RS when I bought it for £43k ...
Given the grown in the Porsche brand customer base, why wouldn't those who grew up with the first GT3's drive prices to the same place that those who grew up with the 964RS have done ??
Yes prices are cyclical, but they don't make these cars any more. Porsche aren't allowed to make these cars any more, so they create modern heritage cars in numbers that are a moveable feast. 600 991R's have become 991 ? Sports classic / Speedster / you have to love 'em !
There will be probably be more RHD 991R's than there were RHD 996 GT3 MkI's --- and then you start talking about Clubsport versions ?
If 400 GT4's still leave new cars selling at a £25k premium, what should be the real value of a very very good 996GT3 ??
As an example, there were only 28 UK RHD 996 MkI CS' --- on any numbers / value scale how many RHD UK 996 GT3 RS were there ? 130 + ?
It's suggested that Weissach were give a free hand in making the first GT3 something to rival the 993RS and of course, homologate the 1999 996GT3R endurance racers. These are very different beasts from a "humble" Cup car ... and still are.
I'm told that the Gen1's were manufactured at Werks 1 if not Weissach ... which would make sense given their experience of 964RS / 993RS and their vision for the GT3 and GT3 Cup brands ...
And now GT4 (with I'm told GT5 now trademarked ??)
If Porsche's history is any clue to their future .... this is going to be fun !!
Good points. But I still think 996 GT3s will be cheaper in 2018 than today - along with most other "special" or classic cars - but over the longer term it has to be a good buy.The 21st century equivalent of the air-cooled to water-cooled debate ...
Mezger engined to other variants --- with the 9A1 still to really prove itself at 500bhp ---
Bomb proof, visceral, no driver aids, track focussed suspension and gearing options, compact, and now the same age as my RHD 964RS when I bought it for £43k ...
Given the grown in the Porsche brand customer base, why wouldn't those who grew up with the first GT3's drive prices to the same place that those who grew up with the 964RS have done ??
Yes prices are cyclical, but they don't make these cars any more. Porsche aren't allowed to make these cars any more, so they create modern heritage cars in numbers that are a moveable feast. 600 991R's have become 991 ? Sports classic / Speedster / you have to love 'em !
There will be probably be more RHD 991R's than there were RHD 996 GT3 MkI's --- and then you start talking about Clubsport versions ?
If 400 GT4's still leave new cars selling at a £25k premium, what should be the real value of a very very good 996GT3 ??
As an example, there were only 28 UK RHD 996 MkI CS' --- on any numbers / value scale how many RHD UK 996 GT3 RS were there ? 130 + ?
It's suggested that Weissach were give a free hand in making the first GT3 something to rival the 993RS and of course, homologate the 1999 996GT3R endurance racers. These are very different beasts from a "humble" Cup car ... and still are.
I'm told that the Gen1's were manufactured at Werks 1 if not Weissach ... which would make sense given their experience of 964RS / 993RS and their vision for the GT3 and GT3 Cup brands ...
And now GT4 (with I'm told GT5 now trademarked ??)
If Porsche's history is any clue to their future .... this is going to be fun !!
But what do I know. If I had kept some of past cars I would be sitting on a fortune now.
I agree.
Too much uncertainty everywhere (Brexit, UK economy, world economy, etc.) for me to commit to a 996 GT3 (much as I would love one) right now. I assume that's also true for most people who have yet to join the market yet.
I'll stick to my cheapo (but great) 996 C2 for now and keep my powder dry.
However, if Carney starts QE again.......
Too much uncertainty everywhere (Brexit, UK economy, world economy, etc.) for me to commit to a 996 GT3 (much as I would love one) right now. I assume that's also true for most people who have yet to join the market yet.
I'll stick to my cheapo (but great) 996 C2 for now and keep my powder dry.
However, if Carney starts QE again.......
ChrisW. said:
Evo mag did say that this was their favourite car from the first 200 issues.
I wonder if that's still the case ??
Which one - the 996 GT3 or the 7.2RS?I wonder if that's still the case ??
Agree with your points earlier. The 996 GT3 feels like a neo-classic (if that is the right word) - i.e. a classic car packing a big punch that can keep up with a 997 GT3 if driven well.
One issue does tend to be that the delta between a so-so car and a good car is fairly wide. Typically the classifieds get filled with the cars that stick a bit (usually colour, maybe condition) and therefore it can give the impression of them being less loved. However a strong colour clubsport with a good history will usually sell to another enthusiast before hitting the public sites.
A well cared for and setup car is awesome!
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