996 GT3 FS

[Slippydiff]

Well I'd forget the 996 as "the reality is these cars are old pieces of st" apparently. So I think it's safe to assume the increased engagement and tactility over the more modern cars counts for nothing ....

Got to love PH these days. Not.

[Pip1968]

Slippydiff said:

Well I'd forget the 996 as "the reality is these cars are old pieces of st" apparently. So I think it's safe to assume the increased engagement and tactility over the more modern cars counts for nothing ....

Got to love PH these days. Not.

Ha ha. I think there is an option for Fredt to back pedal on that as if I read his subsequent post correctly and interpretted it correctly too what he meant to say is that it is not worth the current asking price. NOT a "piece of sh#t".

You would after all cash in your "sh#t" unless you liked sh#t (???.....?). Especially if you think prices will re adjust and fall far enough. You could then pick up some cheap sh#t.;)

Pip

[fredt]

It counts for nothing to most people. The few of us that likes these cars are not enough to support these prices when the investors disappear.

I don't believe for one second that there has been a fundamental change in the amount of people who actually enjoy cars/bikes/engines, the thing that has driven the prices of cars is investment and fashion. And those are both cyclical. I think it will change.

[fredt]

Clearly they are not a piece of st to you, me and many enthusiasts. But to the wider public they are just what they were 10 yrs ago, of zero interest. Only they are now seen as cool, and an investment. This I believe will change and as soon as it turns old cars will be of zero interest again.

Then you will have the same market, same buyers as we had 10yrs ago where people are buying the cars for the car itself. Not for the investment value or as a fashion statement and the cars will go back to what I see as value.

[Budflicker]

fredt said:

Clearly they are not a piece of st to you, me and many enthusiasts. But to the wider public they are just what they were 10 yrs ago, of zero interest. Only they are now seen as cool, and an investment. This I believe will change and as soon as it turns old cars will be of zero interest again.

Then you will have the same market, same buyers as we had 10yrs ago where people are buying the cars for the car itself. Not for the investment value or as a fashion statement and the cars will go back to what I see as value.

lets hope so eh.

[Cheburator mk2]

fredt said:

Clearly they are not a piece of st to you, me and many enthusiasts. But to the wider public they are just what they were 10 yrs ago, of zero interest. Only they are now seen as cool, and an investment. This I believe will change and as soon as it turns old cars will be of zero interest again.

Then you will have the same market, same buyers as we had 10yrs ago where people are buying the cars for the car itself. Not for the investment value or as a fashion statement and the cars will go back to what I see as value.

There maybe some truth in this actually... I was at my recent PCGB Regional meet. There was a 2.7 replica, a nice 993 and SC, some 944s and 968s, and from "quirky" watercooled cars - a 996GT2 and my 996.1 CS K400 The rest were normal cars, ranging from a 996 3.4 to a 991 Targa 4S and a smattering of 997.1 and 997.2 Turbos...

They all thought that the two 996 GTx cars were freaks. So, it looks pretty basic inside... Err, yeah, it is homologation special. Ah, it sounds like a bag of spanners... Err, yeah, it is a Mezger with a single mass flywheel... Ah, how can you tame a 2WD Mezger Turbo with no PASM? Err, it is called brain and right foot...

The cars were admired, but I did not, for a minute sense, a desire within the other fellow members of PCGB and presumably Porsche enthusiasts, to own them. To be honest, they were enthusiastic about the brand, but while I live and breathe Porsche (and BMW) they seemed that would be quite happy in a R8 V10 for example. As long as it was fast, flash and comfortable, they were job-jobbed so to speak. Steering feel mattered little to them...

[EGTE]

Even the EVO guys recently admitted to being slightly scared of the pp6 gT3 they were pitting against a GT4.......are the (lack of)aids are definitely making GTs look a bit anachronistic (or at too hardcore)?

Maybe fredt's got a bit of a point (and he's got no axe to grind that I can see).

Put me down as a 'beard' though; I still want one one day!

[Mousem40]

Cheburator mk2 said:

There maybe some truth in this actually... I was at my recent PCGB Regional meet. There was a 2.7 replica, a nice 993 and SC, some 944s and 968s, and from "quirky" watercooled cars - a 996GT2 and my 996.1 CS K400 The rest were normal cars, ranging from a 996 3.4 to a 991 Targa 4S and a smattering of 997.1 and 997.2 Turbos...

They all thought that the two 996 GTx cars were freaks. So, it looks pretty basic inside... Err, yeah, it is homologation special. Ah, it sounds like a bag of spanners... Err, yeah, it is a Mezger with a single mass flywheel... Ah, how can you tame a 2WD Mezger Turbo with no PASM? Err, it is called brain and right foot...

The cars were admired, but I did not, for a minute sense, a desire within the other fellow members of PCGB and presumably Porsche enthusiasts, to own them. To be honest, they were enthusiastic about the brand, but while I live and breathe Porsche (and BMW) they seemed that would be quite happy in a R8 V10 for example. As long as it was fast, flash and comfortable, they were job-jobbed so to speak. Steering feel mattered little to them...

Not sure which meet you were at, but the PCGB R20 (London) meets I go to are full of GTx cars and everyone wants one. Some have more than 1. Go the the Ace cafe on a Porsche night and see which cars are most popular.
Take your car to the Supercar event, see how many people pay to sit in your GTx car for a few laps rather than a Ferrari or Lambo, because they know what it is and think it's a true sports car. If you brought a cooking Porsche you'd hardly be allowed in.

Car enthusiasts want a GTx car. Car enthusiasts massively outweigh the number of GTx cars available. So even if the froth goes out of the market there will always be an underlying bid for these cars keeping their prices solid.

[Cheburator mk2]

Mousem40 said:

Not sure which meet you were at, but the PCGB R20 (London) meets I go to are full of GTx cars and everyone wants one. Some have more than 1. Go the the Ace cafe on a Porsche night and see which cars are most popular.
Take your car to the Supercar event, see how many people pay to sit in your GTx car for a few laps rather than a Ferrari or Lambo, because they know what it is and think it's a true sports car. If you brought a cooking Porsche you'd hardly be allowed in.

Car enthusiasts want a GTx car. Car enthusiasts massively outweigh the number of GTx cars available. So even if the froth goes out of the market there will always be an underlying bid for these cars keeping their prices solid.

Kent... Don't get me wrong - it is hugely enjoyable, but we, with the GTx, are definitely in the minority. I think I will take my 928 GTS 5-spd... See how that is appreciated given that it is one of the rarest RHD Porsches in the last 30yrs. Probably be called "not a real Porsche..."

[Mario149]

Mousem40 said:

Take your car to the Supercar event, see how many people pay to sit in your GTx car for a few laps rather than a Ferrari or Lambo, because they know what it is and think it's a true sports car.

My experience is very different. I've run an F355, 550 Maranell and 7.1 GT3 at various TSEs over recent years. You almost couldnt give away rides in the GT3 IME. You watch the people's eyes scan over it and land smack on the lambo/Ferrari next to you.
Once they're in the GT3 and you're being held up by the Fs and Ls in the corners or sliding it round Gambon in the wet when almost all the Italians are parked up they realise they made a good choice of course

[ChrisW.]

On country lanes small is better than big.
If you want to choose winter or summer tyre/wheel sets, centre locks are a nightmare.
If you want to learn how or enjoy knowing how to drive, PSM etc can be a big turn-off.
If you don't want to worry about engine longevity on anything water cooled and pre 2008, then Mezger is good.
If you value the lack of prospectively unreliable bells and whistles, the GT cars have a lot going for them.
If you prefer the long term concept of classic elegance to the short term hit of the latest most fashionable ...
And if most new cars will lose you more than you could ever spend looking after a good classic ...

What would you choose ?

Each to their own ... but they are not allowed to make 996 GT3's any more, so if the above resonates, how much choice is there ?

[Mousem40]

Mario149 said:

Mousem40 said:

Take your car to the Supercar event, see how many people pay to sit in your GTx car for a few laps rather than a Ferrari or Lambo, because they know what it is and think it's a true sports car.

My experience is very different. I've run an F355, 550 Maranell and 7.1 GT3 at various TSEs over recent years. You almost couldnt give away rides in the GT3 IME. You watch the people's eyes scan over it and land smack on the lambo/Ferrari next to you.
Once they're in the GT3 and you're being held up by the Fs and Ls in the corners or sliding it round Gambon in the wet when almost all the Italians are parked up they realise they made a good choice of course

Lol I know what you mean. I sat there in my previous 996.2 GT3 and wondered why anyone would want a ride in my car. I've done the event for many years now and am always surprised when the majority of those who do end up in my car, told me they chose it because it's a proper sports car, not flashy, not bloated, with a cage, harnesses, no buttons, no frippery. They've always wanted a GT3. Then of course overtaking all the 'supercars' cemented their approval.

Last year was a case in point. It rained, all the 'supercars' we're parked up leaving GT3s doing lap after lap, gaining much respect and giving the passengers thrilling rides.

The GT3 is an utterly brilliant driver's car, I don't care about values, I hope they tank so everyone gets to enjoy them, nothing comes close even at the current prices.

Edited by Mousem40 on Wednesday 27th April 23:52

[LaSource]

ChrisW. said:

On country lanes small is better than big.
If you want to choose winter or summer tyre/wheel sets, centre locks are a nightmare.
If you want to learn how or enjoy knowing how to drive, PSM etc can be a big turn-off.
If you don't want to worry about engine longevity on anything water cooled and pre 2008, then Mezger is good.
If you value the lack of prospectively unreliable bells and whistles, the GT cars have a lot going for them.
If you prefer the long term concept of classic elegance to the short term hit of the latest most fashionable ...
And if most new cars will lose you more than you could ever spend looking after a good classic ...

What would you choose ?

Each to their own ... but they are not allowed to make 996 GT3's any more, so if the above resonates, how much choice is there ?

+1

I appreciate we are not all the same. But for me, I've driven all the GT3 variants, and a 996 is the very last car that will leave my stable. The later variants all seem an evolution of each other. The 996 stands out alone as different, analogue, pure. Personally I am a 996 mk2 person as it has noticeably more grunt than the mk1 with very little in it to the 997. But I know others have different favourites.

I do tend to feel a little track use is needed to fully appreciate what the car can do.

[MontyC]

Digga said:

MontyC said:

I recently sold my early 996 GT3 to a guy in Spain, he flew over went into central london to get the funds. I met him at he local station in the car, we went to Halfords where he purchased a sat nav, he then dropped me back at work and drove it all the way to Newcastle to see family, I'm in kent and never driven it more then 200 miles in one go as was only really a weekend toy. Then from Newcastle he drove all the way back to Spain.

Sounds like you did the right thing for the car.

Well unfortunately no I didn't but with few buyers out there we can't be to fussy, when the guy was asking me the 0-60 time and how fast it goes via text message I knew it wasn't going to a good home. He had no idea about owning or the maintaining a GT3 and without going into his personal circumstances to much, buying the car should have been the last thing on his mind. This was all clarified when he called me to tell me the cars temperature had gone upto 120oc and lights on the dash were flashing after 2 weeks ownership so probably blown head gasket.

[Cheburator mk2]

MontyC said:

Well unfortunately no I didn't but with few buyers out there we can't be to fussy, when the guy was asking me the 0-60 time and how fast it goes via text message I knew it wasn't going to a good home. He had no idea about owning or the maintaining a GT3 and without going into his personal circumstances to much, buying the car should have been the last thing on his mind. This was all clarified when he called me to tell me the cars temperature had gone upto 120oc and lights on the dash were flashing after 2 weeks ownership so probably blown head gasket.

How can you blow a HG on a GT3??? I know there is nothing impossible, but still, it does take special talent... Run it on diesel?

[MontyC]

Cheburator mk2 said:

MontyC said:

Well unfortunately no I didn't but with few buyers out there we can't be to fussy, when the guy was asking me the 0-60 time and how fast it goes via text message I knew it wasn't going to a good home. He had no idea about owning or the maintaining a GT3 and without going into his personal circumstances to much, buying the car should have been the last thing on his mind. This was all clarified when he called me to tell me the cars temperature had gone upto 120oc and lights on the dash were flashing after 2 weeks ownership so probably blown head gasket.

How can you blow a HG on a GT3??? I know there is nothing impossible, but still, it does take special talent... Run it on diesel?

I'm only guessing the cars in Spain now, the car was sat in traffic for 3hrs on the drive there with no issues, guy said he drove it 5 miles couple weeks later and temperature went up to max and it blow water out the expansion tank, maybe just cracked, heard no more about it and I'm not about to call and ask for a update. Shame though as was a great car.

[Mousem40]

MontyC said:

I'm only guessing the cars in Spain now, the car was sat in traffic for 3hrs on the drive there with no issues, guy said he drove it 5 miles couple weeks later and temperature went up to max and it blow water out the expansion tank, maybe just cracked, heard no more about it and I'm not about to call and ask for a update. Shame though as was a great car.

Thats not a gasket, and fairly common on any 996, the expansion tank or cap lets loose. I had water jetting out of my previous 996 carrera tank and they simply replaced the tank.

[Cheburator mk2]

Mousem40 said:

Thats not a gasket, and fairly common on any 996, the expansion tank or cap lets loose. I had water jetting out of my previous 996 carrera tank and they simply replaced the tank.

Indeed - Porsche re-designed the cap 4 times and the tank twice. I am about to replace mine as a precaution. It is the original and I don't fancy coolant gushing out on a track day...

[silber]

Further too my last post, it's the 996 I keep thinking about... The 997s were awesome but maybe too competent relative to the pure thrills of the 996. I even really like the slim body of the 996 and relatively tame wings etc. One question I have is re the seating position, as the bucket seemed to be slightly low at the front - I'd rather tip the seat back a bit. Is it possible to get adjusters? Also, I've read that it's usual to head the diff locking when manoeuvring or at tight junctions - is that right?

[Cheburator mk2]

silber said:

Further too my last post, it's the 996 I keep thinking about... The 997s were awesome but maybe too competent relative to the pure thrills of the 996. I even really like the slim body of the 996 and relatively tame wings etc. One question I have is re the seating position, as the bucket seemed to be slightly low at the front - I'd rather tip the seat back a bit. Is it possible to get adjusters? Also, I've read that it's usual to head the diff locking when manoeuvring or at tight junctions - is that right?

Diff making noises at low speed is perfectly fine. Mine has a 996 Cup diff and that feels almost welded while parking

I am 6' 4" and I fit like a glove. Never felt the need to tilt the front base of the seat. I don't think you can raise the front...