Discussion
tyou can take your picks of 996 GT2s for sub 100.000 euros now, they aint selling, and there is probably another 10.000 euros of hot air in there for the most motivated sellers...
personally I still think thats too much, if they get down to 70k euros ( 60k pounds) my eye will start twitching
personally I still think thats too much, if they get down to 70k euros ( 60k pounds) my eye will start twitching
Mintbird said:
you can take your picks of 996 GT2s for sub 100.000 euros now, they aint selling, and there is probably another 10.000 euros of hot air in there for the most motivated sellers...
personally I still think thats too much, if they get down to 70k euros ( 60k pounds) my eye will start twitching
So you as a buyer want them to crash, and me as the owner of a mint 996.1 CS K400 want them to stay up... Hehe, what's new here? personally I still think thats too much, if they get down to 70k euros ( 60k pounds) my eye will start twitching
One thing to bear in mind - where the peak value for my car was relative to where it is now - yeah, perhaps a crash indeed. Relative to what I paid for it in 2014 - I am still massively quids in.
Moreover, I had a perfunctory glance at www.mobile.de - decent stuff seems to be private sales. No CS with ok mileage for less than EUR75k. Consider I had a choice of 5 good CS cars, 996.1/2/997.1 in 2014 all circa EUR45k to EUR60k.
So provided people don't have to sell them I cannot see this thing crashing. Also, if the 996 GT3/GT2 combo is to crash, then I wonder what does that mean for the 964RS/GT4/991GT3 etc?
And if my car is back to what I paid for it? Brilliant - paper wealth is not there to be spent, and I would feel much more comfortable trying to beat LaSource's brilliant Ring laps by a second or two
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 12th July 09:51
Cheburator mk2 said:
So you as a buyer want them to crash, and me as the owner of a mint 996.1 CS K400 want them to stay up... Hehe, what's new here?
One thing to bear in mind - where the peak value for my car was relative to where it is now - yeah, perhaps a crash indeed. Relative to what I paid for it in 2014 - I am still massively quids in.
So provided people don't have to sell them I cannot see this thing crashing. Also, if the 996 GT3/GT2 combo is to crash, then I wonder what does that mean for the 964RS/GT4/991GT3 etc?
'As an owner' (that is you, not me) why do you want prices to stay high? That may seem an odd question on the face of it, but other than maybe a psychological feeling that you're financially 'winning' if this commodity is suddenly worth a lot more than you paid for it, what do you actually get out of it?One thing to bear in mind - where the peak value for my car was relative to where it is now - yeah, perhaps a crash indeed. Relative to what I paid for it in 2014 - I am still massively quids in.
So provided people don't have to sell them I cannot see this thing crashing. Also, if the 996 GT3/GT2 combo is to crash, then I wonder what does that mean for the 964RS/GT4/991GT3 etc?
The only people that I can see materially gaining from this situation are people who can now sell their car for more money that they can then use for some other purpose, ie they're getting out of the market altogether, and traders who can now potentially extract higher margins from their wares.
People who already own, and plan to continue to own, gain nothing other than paper value. In fact they may be losing out in other ways. Insurance premiums almost certainly rise with increasing value. Track days will be a lot more expensive if you use one of the typical 1%/10% premium/excess track day insurance policies, and how many owners are now limiting their mileage as they see their driving tool becoming more of a financial tool that they don't want to risk harming?
People who currently own but want to trade up or across to something else may be affected either way. The jump from a GT3 to an RS version of the same model is now much greater than before, and many other areas of the car market have risen at least equally to the GT cars, so cost to change is at least the same, and in many cases much more expensive than before. Only if you wish to 'downgrade' might you benefit.
Obviously the biggest losers are those who don't own one but want to. Some of these people will now not be able to make that dream purchase, while others might think twice about whether the car is now worth the extra above the values they saw just a short time ago. What usually happens here is that the ownership profile splits into two groups between those existing enthusiast owners and the new 'investor' owners, and the two rarely mix. The first group will see a much lower turnover of cars and owners, as the price of entry is much higher, and the second group takes cars out of general circulation for the rest of us.
So unless you're planning to sell in the short term, what are the benefits of prices staying high?
Cheburator mk2 said:
So you as a buyer want them to crash, and me as the owner of a mint 996.1 CS K400 want them to stay up... Hehe, what's new here?
One thing to bear in mind - where the peak value for my car was relative to where it is now - yeah, perhaps a crash indeed. Relative to what I paid for it in 2014 - I am still massively quids in.
Moreover, I had a perfunctory glance at www.mobile.de - decent stuff seems to be private sales. No CS with ok mileage for less than EUR75k. Consider I had a choice of 5 good CS cars, 996.1/2/997.1 in 2014 all circa EUR45k to EUR60k.
So provided people don't have to sell them I cannot see this thing crashing. Also, if the 996 GT3/GT2 combo is to crash, then I wonder what does that mean for the 964RS/GT4/991GT3 etc?
And if my car is back to what I paid for it? Brilliant - paper wealth is not there to be spent, and I would feel much more comfortable trying to beat LaSource's brilliant Ring laps by a second or two
The market got tested at 100.000 Euros last year and fell flat on its face, it doesnt matter if there are still cars for sale for 75.000 euro if nothing is selling - and run of the mill 96GT3s arent moving at the moment. Way too many for sale. They are down in the 50s euros for the ropiest, and 60s for clean but otherwise common color examples if the seller wants to move it. One thing to bear in mind - where the peak value for my car was relative to where it is now - yeah, perhaps a crash indeed. Relative to what I paid for it in 2014 - I am still massively quids in.
Moreover, I had a perfunctory glance at www.mobile.de - decent stuff seems to be private sales. No CS with ok mileage for less than EUR75k. Consider I had a choice of 5 good CS cars, 996.1/2/997.1 in 2014 all circa EUR45k to EUR60k.
So provided people don't have to sell them I cannot see this thing crashing. Also, if the 996 GT3/GT2 combo is to crash, then I wonder what does that mean for the 964RS/GT4/991GT3 etc?
And if my car is back to what I paid for it? Brilliant - paper wealth is not there to be spent, and I would feel much more comfortable trying to beat LaSource's brilliant Ring laps by a second or two
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Tuesday 12th July 09:51
Its a good buy, I like the GT3 - but it was too early for it to go stratospheric like the 964 RS and as such it got the correction it deserved.
Cheburator mk2 said:
...
And if my car is back to what I paid for it? Brilliant - paper wealth is not there to be spent, and I would feel much more comfortable trying to beat LaSource's brilliant Ring laps by a second or two
That's a dangerous game And if my car is back to what I paid for it? Brilliant - paper wealth is not there to be spent, and I would feel much more comfortable trying to beat LaSource's brilliant Ring laps by a second or two
...but oh so much fun!
...you cannot beat the experience of a well setup 996 on a circuit...and at the ring it is just magical.
If anyone feels their decent mileage 996 GT3 CS is no longer doing it for them and they prefer a modern GT4 upstart, then drop me a PM - happy to do a swap plus some money my way
LaSource said:
That's a dangerous game
...but oh so much fun!
...you cannot beat the experience of a well setup 996 on a circuit...and at the ring it is just magical.
Joking aside - watching your videos has been pure fun and a lot of help. I have compared them back to back with mine and for the first time ever I could clearly see where I am losing time and where I am gaining. Given that your CS and mine were very much the same in terms of set up etc. I found this invaluable....but oh so much fun!
...you cannot beat the experience of a well setup 996 on a circuit...and at the ring it is just magical.
As for wanting them to stay high - to be honest, I don't - the only reason is the cost to change. When I bought mine, the cost to change to a Ferrari - 355/360/430 was perhaps £10k to flat, dependent on car (all LHD as mineis ex-Germany). Now, the prancing donkeys have bolted, the Lambos have bolted, aircooled Pork has bolted too. That's all...
thegreenhell said:
'As an owner' (that is you, not me) why do you want prices to stay high? That may seem an odd question on the face of it, but other than maybe a psychological feeling that you're financially 'winning' if this commodity is suddenly worth a lot more than you paid for it, what do you actually get out of it?
The only people that I can see materially gaining from this situation are people who can now sell their car for more money that they can then use for some other purpose, ie they're getting out of the market altogether, and traders who can now potentially extract higher margins from their wares.
So unless you're planning to sell in the short term, what are the benefits of prices staying high?
Hard to disagree with most of the above. The spike in values over the last 2 years has only detracted from me being willing to drive the cars more (which is possibly irrational but it's hard to shake the feeling you're actively burning a decent chunk of £ especially on a low mileage car) and as I'd hate to sell the cars involved unless absolutely necessary, the paper gains haven't really done much for me either. The only people that I can see materially gaining from this situation are people who can now sell their car for more money that they can then use for some other purpose, ie they're getting out of the market altogether, and traders who can now potentially extract higher margins from their wares.
So unless you're planning to sell in the short term, what are the benefits of prices staying high?
Car prices levelling out at a sensible level, whatever that might be but they certainly were not last year, and holding fairly constant after pretty much would be the preferred outcome imo.
Personally the main upside to prices crashing is quite aptly named 'Schadenfreude' but only on the speculators and flippers in it for a fast buck. As already stated for the real enthusiasts it means perhaps they will get a chance to own and drive their car of choice. More will hopefully be seen on track.
The only downside I see is if you have a prang. With a reduced value insurance will likely write it off. I would be interested to know how many have gone that way in recent years ie written off.
I know that the red Manthey 996 Mk2 GT3 that was for sale at JZM a few years ago was written off at the Nordschleife. I had a look at it and considered it but my wife said Porsche do not come in red. The subsequent buyer had a prang and then the vehicle once recovered from track was stolen.
Does anyone know how many have gone?
Pip
The only downside I see is if you have a prang. With a reduced value insurance will likely write it off. I would be interested to know how many have gone that way in recent years ie written off.
I know that the red Manthey 996 Mk2 GT3 that was for sale at JZM a few years ago was written off at the Nordschleife. I had a look at it and considered it but my wife said Porsche do not come in red. The subsequent buyer had a prang and then the vehicle once recovered from track was stolen.
Does anyone know how many have gone?
Pip
Pip1968 said:
Personally the main upside to prices crashing is quite aptly named 'Schadenfreude' but only on the speculators and flippers in it for a fast buck. As already stated for the real enthusiasts it means perhaps they will get a chance to own and drive their car of choice. More will hopefully be seen on track.
The only downside I see is if you have a prang. With a reduced value insurance will likely write it off. I would be interested to know how many have gone that way in recent years ie written off.
I know that the red Manthey 996 Mk2 GT3 that was for sale at JZM a few years ago was written off at the Nordschleife. I had a look at it and considered it but my wife said Porsche do not come in red. The subsequent buyer had a prang and then the vehicle once recovered from track was stolen.
Does anyone know how many have gone?
Pip
I think it was Spa the crash and stolen from pits a day later? The only downside I see is if you have a prang. With a reduced value insurance will likely write it off. I would be interested to know how many have gone that way in recent years ie written off.
I know that the red Manthey 996 Mk2 GT3 that was for sale at JZM a few years ago was written off at the Nordschleife. I had a look at it and considered it but my wife said Porsche do not come in red. The subsequent buyer had a prang and then the vehicle once recovered from track was stolen.
Does anyone know how many have gone?
Pip
Dan911 said:
I think it was Spa the crash and stolen from pits a day later?
Yes, you must be right. I could not remember and thought it was the Nordschleife as I met the driver by chance a coupe of years ago there and he told me the story. Where did it come a cropper at Spa?It seemed weird at the time to meet the driver of the car I nearly bought. Only my wife combined with what I thought was a not very friendly salesman at JZM pushed me elsewhere.
Pip
Ps I see another has just gone at Rockingham - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Pip1968 said:
Personally the main upside to prices crashing is quite aptly named 'Schadenfreude' but only on the speculators and flippers in it for a fast buck. As already stated for the real enthusiasts it means perhaps they will get a chance to own and drive their car of choice. More will hopefully be seen on track.
The only downside I see is if you have a prang. With a reduced value insurance will likely write it off. I would be interested to know how many have gone that way in recent years ie written off.
I know that the red Manthey 996 Mk2 GT3 that was for sale at JZM a few years ago was written off at the Nordschleife. I had a look at it and considered it but my wife said Porsche do not come in red. The subsequent buyer had a prang and then the vehicle once recovered from track was stolen.
Does anyone know how many have gone?
Pip
That looks very similar to a car I near bought, red CS with RS wing and front bumper, black wheels. PPI found evidence of front crash repair so I walked away. Seam to remember the car I looked at was bought from JZMThe only downside I see is if you have a prang. With a reduced value insurance will likely write it off. I would be interested to know how many have gone that way in recent years ie written off.
I know that the red Manthey 996 Mk2 GT3 that was for sale at JZM a few years ago was written off at the Nordschleife. I had a look at it and considered it but my wife said Porsche do not come in red. The subsequent buyer had a prang and then the vehicle once recovered from track was stolen.
Does anyone know how many have gone?
Pip
cbgt3 said:
I can assure you the numbers are right. I thought I was a mistake the sum they offered so I cleared the computer and started again and the figure was the same so I booked an appointment straight away.
I have heard all the stories about WBAC so went with my eyes wide open and was completely surprised by the experience.
As I said this week I punched into WBAC again out of curiosity and the offer was 28k less than they gave me 2 weeks ago.
I would have thought they will make a sizeable loss on my car.
I popped in at Blackbushe this afternoon to see the GT3. The car looked lovely.I have heard all the stories about WBAC so went with my eyes wide open and was completely surprised by the experience.
As I said this week I punched into WBAC again out of curiosity and the offer was 28k less than they gave me 2 weeks ago.
I would have thought they will make a sizeable loss on my car.
I didn't wait long enough to see what it went for; I would have been tempted if it was cheap enough, but all the other Porsches went through for fairly strong money.
Does anyone know what it sold for?
What happened to the Cobalt Blue GT3 this topic was talking about??
this can't be it can it - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Dan
this can't be it can it - http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Dan
I too would love to know what it fetched.
The condition report was utter crap from the AA. States it had a misfire throughout the Rev range on test. The car must be running on fumes the petrol light was on when I sold it and it's covered another 40 miles since and looking at the pics the light is still on. The noise from the rear as everyone knows is the diff. The car was lovely inside and out.
I kept it clayed and polished and sealed and it was kept under a Porsche dealer cover in a dehumidified garage.
The condition report was utter crap from the AA. States it had a misfire throughout the Rev range on test. The car must be running on fumes the petrol light was on when I sold it and it's covered another 40 miles since and looking at the pics the light is still on. The noise from the rear as everyone knows is the diff. The car was lovely inside and out.
I kept it clayed and polished and sealed and it was kept under a Porsche dealer cover in a dehumidified garage.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff