GT3 Gen one rev range check for warranty
Discussion
Not driving it hard enough! 
Ok, I'll bite, at the risk of this turning into another debatable thread.
IMHO, this whole RR thing gets to be quite over done.
I agree, RR5 and RR6 can be concerning as even Porsche would refuse to warranty car.
Below that RR3 and RR4, it needs a leakdown and compression test (as a safety net and if I was cynical I could say as a tidy revenue earner) and then Porsche are happy to warranty the car. The previous events are then written off and not tested again when extending the warranty (unless there are any new events). If they occured many engine hours ago (50+) then even Porsche would not bother with the extra tests.
RR1 and RR2 do not count for much. Not a warranty issue.
The real question is how many blown engines do you hear about due to over revved engines?? How many other marques measure these? So many GT3s are used on track...but little engine weakness or stories. Given the track day fraternity, it would not be a super secret either.
The engines are overengineered for amateur track days and therefore over time I expect these to become just background noise.
I expect we can get the usual debate where some people use their cars enthusiastically, give them a lot of mechanical TLC and I would suggest this group understands the strength of the engines. Others may use the cars sparingly for sunday drives and perversely probably stick to the scheduled maintenance plan and worry about them blowing up.
Within reason, I would not be too worried about some RR activity as long as not RR5 and RR6...and possibly with an engine test or warranty cover. After that it just needs driving!
May be if the market was flooded with choice, one could pursue the 'cleaner' car.
All IMHO
IMHO, this whole RR thing gets to be quite over done.
I agree, RR5 and RR6 can be concerning as even Porsche would refuse to warranty car.
Below that RR3 and RR4, it needs a leakdown and compression test (as a safety net and if I was cynical I could say as a tidy revenue earner) and then Porsche are happy to warranty the car. The previous events are then written off and not tested again when extending the warranty (unless there are any new events). If they occured many engine hours ago (50+) then even Porsche would not bother with the extra tests.
RR1 and RR2 do not count for much. Not a warranty issue.
The real question is how many blown engines do you hear about due to over revved engines?? How many other marques measure these? So many GT3s are used on track...but little engine weakness or stories. Given the track day fraternity, it would not be a super secret either.
The engines are overengineered for amateur track days and therefore over time I expect these to become just background noise.
I expect we can get the usual debate where some people use their cars enthusiastically, give them a lot of mechanical TLC and I would suggest this group understands the strength of the engines. Others may use the cars sparingly for sunday drives and perversely probably stick to the scheduled maintenance plan and worry about them blowing up.
Within reason, I would not be too worried about some RR activity as long as not RR5 and RR6...and possibly with an engine test or warranty cover. After that it just needs driving!
May be if the market was flooded with choice, one could pursue the 'cleaner' car.
All IMHO
Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 28th May 15:17
My view on rev ranges: I wouldn't touch any 987/997 Porsche with RR4 and above on it. And I would be concerned about any RR3, if it was the perfect car I would consider it, but it would have to be perfect, I would probably walk from RR3. That's my preference, and if I can find a car with RR1 and RR2 then I wouldn't be concerned at all, and the car would fly through warranty with no problems.
This is the range table kindly provided by agtlaw:
This is the range table kindly provided by agtlaw:
LaSource said:
I understand the personal preference - that's fine - especially if there is plenty of choice.
However, Porsche will warranty the engine up to RR4. So from a risk perspective its not really a problem as long as its been tested.
From a risk perspective, you are minimising risk going for a car with RR1 and RR2 (987/997) and only RR1 for 996/986 etc.However, Porsche will warranty the engine up to RR4. So from a risk perspective its not really a problem as long as its been tested.
Taking a car with RR3/RR4, even if warrantied is giving yourself additional exposure. If your engine blows, and Porsche suggest/prove a link to the over-rev, even if they warrantied it they can still wriggle. If they say the engine was damaged due to misuse, and not a manufacturing defect, you have no cover.
So my view is you are taking on additional risk with a RR3/RR4 car. I take your point that choice is an issue, depends how risk averse you are or if you are a risk taker!
My thinking (and experience) is based on the much more robust GT3 mezger engines and not the other cooking models.
My current cars happen to have clean ECU data. However, I have previously owned an rr2 996 GT3 with no problems.
In my view I would have absolutely no problem with the following example cars:
- a 997 gen 1 in viper green with say 15k miles, 80 ignitions in RR4 but compression and leak down test with a warranty applied to it for current market price (say £97k using the JZM orange car as a comparator)
- a 996 RS in white/Blue with 25k miles, ceramics, with 200 ignitions in RR2 over 100 engine hours ago and no warranty for current market price (say £100k+)
- a 997 gen 2 RS in aqua blue with white gold highlights, PCCBs, front lift, 8k miles with 80 ignitions in RR4, tested, warranted, for say £115-120k
- a 996 GT3 Clubsport in yellow with 300 ignitions in RR2 over 200 hours ago with 30k miles no warranty for say £50k
We can all argue whether the above prices are real or not. My point in illustrating the above examples is that getting the right car in a good spec is hard enough. To then use the RR excuse to walk away from it is just walking away from a great car. You may not find another one for another summer as this one will have gone. If the activity is not too high, some time ago, or covered by a Porsche warranty (after a leakdown and compression test) then why mess around? The mezger engines are engineered for race environments.....I can't say the same with the same confidence for 991s
Anyway, everyone is different. As I say I would no have no problem with the above...and the same for many others with experience of the GT3 platform. New comers may read too much into internet speak or current owners with clean ECU cars may wish to strike a bigger differentiation.
All IMHO.
My current cars happen to have clean ECU data. However, I have previously owned an rr2 996 GT3 with no problems.
In my view I would have absolutely no problem with the following example cars:
- a 997 gen 1 in viper green with say 15k miles, 80 ignitions in RR4 but compression and leak down test with a warranty applied to it for current market price (say £97k using the JZM orange car as a comparator)
- a 996 RS in white/Blue with 25k miles, ceramics, with 200 ignitions in RR2 over 100 engine hours ago and no warranty for current market price (say £100k+)
- a 997 gen 2 RS in aqua blue with white gold highlights, PCCBs, front lift, 8k miles with 80 ignitions in RR4, tested, warranted, for say £115-120k
- a 996 GT3 Clubsport in yellow with 300 ignitions in RR2 over 200 hours ago with 30k miles no warranty for say £50k
We can all argue whether the above prices are real or not. My point in illustrating the above examples is that getting the right car in a good spec is hard enough. To then use the RR excuse to walk away from it is just walking away from a great car. You may not find another one for another summer as this one will have gone. If the activity is not too high, some time ago, or covered by a Porsche warranty (after a leakdown and compression test) then why mess around? The mezger engines are engineered for race environments.....I can't say the same with the same confidence for 991s
Anyway, everyone is different. As I say I would no have no problem with the above...and the same for many others with experience of the GT3 platform. New comers may read too much into internet speak or current owners with clean ECU cars may wish to strike a bigger differentiation.
All IMHO.
IanHg said:
If RR1 in a GT3 is 9000 - 9200. What's the 997.1 GT3 redline?
redline is 8200 I think.pete a said:
So in a 997.1 GT3 does hitting the rev limiter when going up the gears register an over rev event or does the limiter stop this.
No, RR1 is 800rpm above redline so no recordings for bouncing off the limiter.Magic919 said:
jcarruthers said:
Does anyone know if the total hours are reset when they reset the RR after deciding to warranty it?
Nothing gets reset by Porsche. Say the last RR activity was at engine hours X and the warranty renewal was at engine hours X+Y.
They log in the global service database that the car had its 111 point check done at X+Y, if deemed necessary the engine was compression and leak down tested, and if passed a new warranty agreed.
After that for subsequent warranty renewals, if no new RR events then no compression or leak down test required - it's been tested and passed.
Reading can confirm the above.
Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 28th May 20:10
LaSource said:
That's right. They do not reset anything.
Say the last RR activity was at engine hours X and the warranty renewal was at engine hours X+Y.
They log in the global service database that the car had its 111 point check done at X+Y, if deemed necessary the engine was compression and leak down tested, and if passed a new warranty agreed.
After that for subsequent warranty renewals, if no new RR events then no compression or leak down test required - it's been tested and passed.
Reading can confirm the above.
Aha — ok — thanks — I got confused.Say the last RR activity was at engine hours X and the warranty renewal was at engine hours X+Y.
They log in the global service database that the car had its 111 point check done at X+Y, if deemed necessary the engine was compression and leak down tested, and if passed a new warranty agreed.
After that for subsequent warranty renewals, if no new RR events then no compression or leak down test required - it's been tested and passed.
Reading can confirm the above.
Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 28th May 20:10
Does anyone know if Porsche will let you have a copy of the global service history? (after it's out of their hands)
Most overrevs I've heard of have low number of ignitions (say 300 and below or just double digits) and hence my guess is that it is more likely caused by the car going over a jump whilst accelerating as opposed to a full on mis-shift (and it is 3 ignitions per rev at circa 8,500+ revs per minute depending on model)
I've only read of one example where a 996 GT3 had something like 5,000+ ignitions in RR2...that sounds like a serious money shift.
I've only read of one example where a 996 GT3 had something like 5,000+ ignitions in RR2...that sounds like a serious money shift.
LaSource said:
Most overrevs I've heard of have low number of ignitions (say 300 and below or just double digits) and hence my guess is that it is more likely caused by the car going over a jump whilst accelerating
Unless the engine has fuel and spark then revs won't increase even if the wheels leave the ground. The only exception I know of is in the case of boosted engines where the boost can keep supplying energy even after the fuel/spark is cut.Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff