911 Turbo vs. Turbo S

911 Turbo vs. Turbo S

Author
Discussion

Adam B

27,142 posts

253 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Anyhow back to the poor old OP and his original question which had nothing to do with 997.1 or monster conversions!!

997.2 turbo was manual or PDK, 500PS/493bhp
997.2 turbo S is PDK only, 530PS/523bhp

extra kit on S that was cost option on non-S:
PTV
PCCB
sports chrono
dynamic engine mounts
cornering headlights
19-inch RS Spyder alloys (standard turbo gen 2 alloys a NCO)

kit that not sure if you could spec on non-S cars:
two-tone leather sports seats and doors

performance differences would be negligible but that is a lot of extra kit that was expensive to option on non-S, so depends on price difference of cars you are comparing as to whether its worht it or not.
I really like the two tone seats/doors of S but prefer the design of the standard wheels over the fussy and delicate looking spyder alloys (plus the hassle of getting them off)

S is really a run-out options bundle model much like the 996 turbo S IMHO



Isysman said:
the Metzga engine
a kitten just died frown


Edited by Adam B on Monday 28th July 12:37

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
As far as i remember, those who ordered a Turbo with a very good spec were told about the Turbo S, and s so went for one. So, the likelihood of finding a Turbo with Turbo S spec is pretty rare.

I have seen one Turbo for sale which had everything but PCCB. You could argue this is perfect for someone who would have wanted to track their car. For me though, the PCCB are amazing for road use.

Ultimately, if you have a car with PTV and Sports Chrono it's going to be a much better drive than a Gen 1.

Adam B

27,142 posts

253 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
hondansx said:
Ultimately, if you have a car with PTV and Sports Chrono it's going to be a much better drive than a Gen 1.
why? 20bhp more and PTV? Most 997.1 turbos are specced with sports chrono for overboost function

Don't think normal drivers / road driving would reveal a huge difference

Callughan

6,312 posts

191 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Isysman said:
Callughan said:
Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual esp DMS would not be quicker than a turbo S.



Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:02
You a customer of DMS then? It's quite annoying to see people with no experience of theirs bashing them online. I've spoken to quite a few customers recently and not one has a bad word to say about them. So I'm betting you are not one, you just 'heard of a bloke' or 'have a mate' who had one? I am a customer and my car is excellent after the upgrades.



Edited by Isysman on Monday 28th July 04:47
My bet was firstsmile I do have experience hence why I was unimpressed, mainly with a 997 turbo cab with dms and miltek and it did not feel that much faster than stock and had to really push againt 997.2s pdk we were with until higher speeds. Also other DMS cars at the meets I used to arrange and on track days didn't seem to carry the power they quote. Of course negative forum talk, articles etc will have an influence but this is judging on what I have seen. As I have said before if you are happy than that is what counts, but gen 1 manual with just a DMS remap cannot beat a 7TS.

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Adam B said:
hondansx said:
Ultimately, if you have a car with PTV and Sports Chrono it's going to be a much better drive than a Gen 1.
why? 20bhp more and PTV? Most 997.1 turbos are specced with sports chrono for overboost function

Don't think normal drivers / road driving would reveal a huge difference
Have you driven both cars? They feel completely different to drive; i felt it after about 50 yards.

Adam B

27,142 posts

253 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
hondansx said:
Have you driven both cars? They feel completely different to drive; i felt it after about 50 yards.
own a gen 1 turbo manual

drove a PDK gen 2 - felt different but all down to PDK as far as I could tell

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Maybe have another go when you next have a chance then... smile

The Gen 2 car has updated PASM (therefore Sports Chrono is not the same), different spring rates, ARB and PTM settings. There is also the the potential of PTV and active engine mounts.

When switching to the Gen 2, i could clearly see that this was a car that Porsche had built to reclaim some lost pride since the arrival of the Nissan GTR. The Gen 2 Turbo S is much more alert, aggressive and...well... like a sports car. And for me, it's a much better car for it.

The PDK choice is a whole other argument, but it puts the car on to a different level of performance compared to the manuals and just adds to the all-round daily ability of the Turbo. If i wanted more interaction, i'd just get a GT3, which has an engine with the characteristics that suits a manual gearchange. That's my two penneth - my advice is to drive both and see what you think!

Adam B

27,142 posts

253 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
I will do if I get the chance

I was impressed with PDK and undoubtably improves real world performance vs my ability in a manual, however 2nd gen was above the budget I was willing to spend on a deprciating asset, and I hate tips so manual it was.

Both gens are great cars and money no object I would love a PDK turbo S, but it is an object so I am very happy with my low miles, good spec 997.1 turbo with Mezger and manual + sports shifter (which I suspect/hope may be the enthusiasts first choice in a few years)

Callughan

6,312 posts

191 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
hondansx said:
Maybe have another go when you next have a chance then... smile

The Gen 2 car has updated PASM (therefore Sports Chrono is not the same), different spring rates, ARB and PTM settings. There is also the the potential of PTV and active engine mounts.

When switching to the Gen 2, i could clearly see that this was a car that Porsche had built to reclaim some lost pride since the arrival of the Nissan GTR. The Gen 2 Turbo S is much more alert, aggressive and...well... like a sports car. And for me, it's a much better car for it.

The PDK choice is a whole other argument, but it puts the car on to a different level of performance compared to the manuals and just adds to the all-round daily ability of the Turbo. If i wanted more interaction, i'd just get a GT3, which has an engine with the characteristics that suits a manual gearchange. That's my two penneth - my advice is to drive both and see what you think!
Also 35lbs lighter, feels much tighter especially at high speed and track.

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Adam B said:
I will do if I get the chance

I was impressed with PDK and undoubtably improves real world performance vs my ability in a manual, however 2nd gen was above the budget I was willing to spend on a deprciating asset, and I hate tips so manual it was.

Both gens are great cars and money no object I would love a PDK turbo S, but it is an object so I am very happy with my low miles, good spec 997.1 turbo with Mezger and manual + sports shifter (which I suspect/hope may be the enthusiasts first choice in a few years)
For sure a manual Gen 1 Turbo, especially a later one with the updated PCM, represents really good value. As such they'll always be in demand. I personally think the Mezger element is inconsequential (the Gen 2 hasn't blown up yet!), but i'm sure that connection will definitely help values for the Gen 1.

Carl_Docklands

12,102 posts

261 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
It may do however you'll need to get the mezger in to 750-800bhp territory for it to be really worthwhile.

A simple remap and exhaust tweak on a gen2 turbo and it will do 0-200kmh in around 9.1 seconds which is about half a second quicker than a gt2 RS.

Then gen2 might not have the strongest engine but all the other components around it are great out of the box.

I find the gen 2 pdk acceleration faintly terrifying without any tweaks at all.

Edited by Carl_Docklands on Monday 28th July 15:56

s2000db

1,152 posts

152 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Has the OP done a runner?

Well if you haven't, have a read of this...


http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2011-aston...

jackal

11,248 posts

281 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Turbo S is incredible precisely because of the PDK. The PDK defines the whole experience. If you want a manual car with more interaction then get a GT3 but if you want a turbo, then IMO the turbo S PDK is not only the best Turbo ever (except 991) but also the most convincing 997 in the whole range.

Isysman

319 posts

135 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Callughan said:
My bet was firstsmile I do have experience hence why I was unimpressed, mainly with a 997 turbo cab with dms and miltek and it did not feel that much faster than stock and had to really push againt 997.2s pdk we were with until higher speeds. Also other DMS cars at the meets I used to arrange and on track days didn't seem to carry the power they quote. Of course negative forum talk, articles etc will have an influence but this is judging on what I have seen. As I have said before if you are happy than that is what counts, but gen 1 manual with just a DMS remap cannot beat a 7TS.
My comment was to have it modified to be faster than an S, I didn't say just get a remap. You are probably right that just a remap wouldn't do it.

Callughan

6,312 posts

191 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Isysman said:
Callughan said:
My bet was firstsmile I do have experience hence why I was unimpressed, mainly with a 997 turbo cab with dms and miltek and it did not feel that much faster than stock and had to really push againt 997.2s pdk we were with until higher speeds. Also other DMS cars at the meets I used to arrange and on track days didn't seem to carry the power they quote. Of course negative forum talk, articles etc will have an influence but this is judging on what I have seen. As I have said before if you are happy than that is what counts, but gen 1 manual with just a DMS remap cannot beat a 7TS.
My comment was to have it modified to be faster than an S, I didn't say just get a remap. You are probably right that just a remap wouldn't do it.
Which is the beauty of the mezger engineparty

Isysman

319 posts

135 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Adam B said:
Anyhow back to the poor old OP and his original question which had nothing to do with 997.1 or monster conversions!!
Well not exactly, the topic did go a bit sideways but his question was about Turbo or Turbo S, I think gen.1 is a viable choice and is therefore within the boundaries of said topic.

Adam B

27,142 posts

253 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
Get2Jaime said:
Been pondering the difference, specifically with the 997.2 model.
Ok then wink

Edited by Adam B on Monday 28th July 22:57

MOD500

2,686 posts

249 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
I think pdk, ptv, etc makes for a very capable and exciting drive. I guess the OP could test drive both models to decide if the S or high spec non S with all the kit was worth premium over the cooking standard spec turbo.

The gen 2 turbo vs modded gen 1 turbo scenario is very interesting and one I obsessed over greatly before going gen 2. A decent late gen 1 997 turbo will cost you £50k (?) to buy and then to make a proper road weapon min £10-15k inc. VAT would be required to install **reputable and proven** 540 hp remap / sports exhaust / cats, uprated intercoolers (eg GT2 RS units), air filter, uprated clutch, Bilstein or similar suspension, upgraded brakes (for non pccb cars), etc. This budget excludes any repairs and overhaul work required during the mod work due to age and / or wear e.g O2 sensors, hoses, seals, turbo work, etc. This would create a very, very fast road car that would handle wondrously .... how would compare to the say gen 2 turbo S cross country I guess comes down to drivers, etc. At v-max style event the two cars should achieve similar speeds over same distance?

The moot point here for me was that you are spending pretty much the same £ in creating modded gen 1 as buying nice gen 2. Further if you want to soundly trounce a gen 2 you would be upgrading turbos on gen 1 plus other work to achieve a **real** 600 hp, so adding another say min £5k to modding budget.

I decided to go gen 2 due to wanting turn key OPC warrantied ownership experience, and not be worried should any mechanical failure occur, etc.

Creating a modded turbo monster is great and very exciting, the rush when on the gas is unparalleled and makes the factory offering seem almost pedestrian. From experience of owning modded 993 turbo in the past, the monster turbo route is worthwhile sojourning if you are looking to keep for long time, accept fact it will cost more to run ref repairs / periodic overhaul, understand you will have limited or no warranty cover, and will be difficult (price dependent) to sell further down the line.

Where has the OP gone ? sonar

Isysman

319 posts

135 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
Adam B said:
Ok then wink

Edited by Adam B on Monday 28th July 22:57
Right and I said that the gen.1 was a possible option. I'm sorry I didn't realise you were the thread adjudicator? Maybe you should write down a list of points that we are allowed to make so you don't get upset?