996 engine issues - warranty, slush fund or prevention?
Discussion
Hi all,
First time posting in the Porsche section so please be gentle.
I'm seriously considering a 996 for my next car, almost certainly a facelift C2 or possibly C4S depending on how how much I decide to spend.
I'm happy to put aside a reasonable amount to keep it in top condition but, like most, having done a bit of research I find the potential for serious engine problems rather scary.
I'm trying to work out whether it's better to undertake some preventative maintenance (from replacement IMS to, perhaps, a Hartech overhaul), just run it, hope for the best and deal with it if I'm one of the unlucky few to have a failure or try to find a competively priced warranty that's worth more than the paper it's written on.
If for example, it would cost say £3k for someone to upgrade / engineer our the weaknesses, that might be worth it if it potentially saved a £10k bill following an IMS failure. However, if the saving was only say £2k, it would seem better to take my chances.
Hope this isn't a stupid question. Its not my intention to turn this thread into yet another IMS etc moan at all; just looking for some honest advice from people who have probably had the same consideration.
First time posting in the Porsche section so please be gentle.
I'm seriously considering a 996 for my next car, almost certainly a facelift C2 or possibly C4S depending on how how much I decide to spend.
I'm happy to put aside a reasonable amount to keep it in top condition but, like most, having done a bit of research I find the potential for serious engine problems rather scary.
I'm trying to work out whether it's better to undertake some preventative maintenance (from replacement IMS to, perhaps, a Hartech overhaul), just run it, hope for the best and deal with it if I'm one of the unlucky few to have a failure or try to find a competively priced warranty that's worth more than the paper it's written on.
If for example, it would cost say £3k for someone to upgrade / engineer our the weaknesses, that might be worth it if it potentially saved a £10k bill following an IMS failure. However, if the saving was only say £2k, it would seem better to take my chances.
Hope this isn't a stupid question. Its not my intention to turn this thread into yet another IMS etc moan at all; just looking for some honest advice from people who have probably had the same consideration.
When you are looking at a prospective purchase check the engine number to see if the car has had a replacement. My 2003 996 C2 had a replacement fitted in 2005 by Porsche. Engine numbers incorporate a date number within the sequence and some times the letters "AT" so signify re-built motor. It's not a guarantee of no problems in the future, but it might just ease your thinking.
Also remember that you always hear about the horror stories and there a quite a few of these cars out there that are performing pretty well. The later 996 has a lot going for it at present. It's good value. They were about £70K new and someone else has shouldered the eye watering £55k depreciation. The C2 is also the last 911 to have an oil sump dipstick!
H
Also remember that you always hear about the horror stories and there a quite a few of these cars out there that are performing pretty well. The later 996 has a lot going for it at present. It's good value. They were about £70K new and someone else has shouldered the eye watering £55k depreciation. The C2 is also the last 911 to have an oil sump dipstick!
H
Hilux2400 said:
They were about £70K new and someone else has shouldered the eye watering £55k depreciation.
You do realise it's an 11 year old car you are talking about that has lost £55k - it's hardly eye-watering depreciation , It's a 911 not a 3 series.OP - Get an 04 plate or later if you can afford it , service plan on the later cars moves to 2 years , 20,000 miles. I owned a C4S Cab on an 04 plate (6 years old at purchase) for just over two years, 1 service in that time and a couple of very small issues - car was awesome
Anyone will tell not NOT to service them every two years or 20k , i would be looking to service annually and most 911 owner will tell you the same this is well documented especially around the m96/97 engine. Regular oil changes yearly is recommend as it reduce wear on the engine , but more so older oil loses its abilities surrounding temperature control increased heat is not good for these blocks and is a factor towards BS issues.
Mine is a Tip (986) so IMS replacement is not so easy as I'll never be having a clutch done. I run mine on heavier oil, 5W/50 Comma Motorsport as I believe it reduces the IMS & BS issues. If it has an issue then I'll look at the options carefully, part it out, rebuild it or s/h engine. Until then I'll drive it & enjoy it.
I am not sure what difference it makes if the car has had a replacement engine from Porsche? They just replace it with the same with the same risks.
And I am afriad leaving servicing to 20k or 2 years its suicidal.
The ultimate option is buy one with a rebuilt Hartech engine. Or use Hartechs maintenance plan. Just remember that they will need to do a major service first and everything will need to be fixed for it to qualify.
And I am afriad leaving servicing to 20k or 2 years its suicidal.
The ultimate option is buy one with a rebuilt Hartech engine. Or use Hartechs maintenance plan. Just remember that they will need to do a major service first and everything will need to be fixed for it to qualify.
mollytherocker said:
The ultimate option is buy one with a rebuilt Hartech engine.
Totally agree with this. There are adverts out there where sellers unsurprisingly point out the fact that the car has had a hartech rebuild. Provided it's had at least all bank two cylinders done and if the papers are intact then I would definitely pay a premium for such a car.
Edited by JasonRIx on Sunday 27th July 11:47
I keep seeing people posting about early 996's having ticking time bomb engines and then they post about how they had X model for say 6 months to 2 years with no issues then swapped it.
Had a 996 since 98, engine did blow at 15k but it now done 121k with no major issues (IMS Bearing done at 70k ish) - used daily.
Personally think they can be a bargain if you know what you are letting yourself in for. If however you are stretching your budget buying any 911 of choice regardless of model then all of them are a potential time bomb as is pretty much any performance vehicle with potentially high repair costs.
I'm not saying they dont have issues, far from it but I do find it weird when I only know 4 people with 911s and two of them bought 997s purely because of all the talk of chocolate engines - turns out both 997s they got instead were duds (engine issues, no oil when they picked them up etc) and they paid around 35k for them (not including resulting cost of angry phone calls and legal threats)....could have had 3 996s for that price!
Had a 996 since 98, engine did blow at 15k but it now done 121k with no major issues (IMS Bearing done at 70k ish) - used daily.
Personally think they can be a bargain if you know what you are letting yourself in for. If however you are stretching your budget buying any 911 of choice regardless of model then all of them are a potential time bomb as is pretty much any performance vehicle with potentially high repair costs.
I'm not saying they dont have issues, far from it but I do find it weird when I only know 4 people with 911s and two of them bought 997s purely because of all the talk of chocolate engines - turns out both 997s they got instead were duds (engine issues, no oil when they picked them up etc) and they paid around 35k for them (not including resulting cost of angry phone calls and legal threats)....could have had 3 996s for that price!
Mr Ping said:
Had a 996 since 98, engine did blow at 15k
So you are adding another car to the 'ticking-timb-bomb' list of failures, but saying that 'people' are exaggerating the issue?.Mr Ping said:
...buying any 911 of choice regardless of model then all of them are a potential time bomb...
Your rhetoric may be masking what you are trying to say, but if by 'time-bomb' you mean that the potential repair costs will outweigh the value of any 911, then you are incorrect.Mr Ping said:
...and two of them bought 997s purely because of all the talk of chocolate engines - turns out both 997s they got instead were duds (engine issues, no oil when they picked them up etc)
They should have done more research - the engine design issues were still present in the 997.Orangecurry said:
Mr Ping said:
Had a 996 since 98, engine did blow at 15k
So you are adding another car to the 'ticking-timb-bomb' list of failures, but saying that 'people' are exaggerating the issue?.- Yes it failed and was rebuilt but since has done over 100k no issues. That's not to say it isn't going to go pop again as it sure can but when people say things along the lines of don't buy a 996 it will almost definitely blow up (soon) but instead get X, Y and Z model I think you have to take into account how long someone intends to own a vehicle for and how long some of the posters owned the vehicle for that they are referring to.
Mr Ping said:
...buying any 911 of choice regardless of model then all of them are a potential time bomb...
Your rhetoric may be masking what you are trying to say, but if by 'time-bomb' you mean that the potential repair costs will outweigh the value of any 911, then you are incorrect.- Poorly worded I admit, I guess what I meant was that a significant portion of the models all have their own potential problems, all potentially costly. I'm not saying they outweigh the value by any stretch otherwise I obviously would not have one, it was more suggesting that any of them can turn into a money-pit and you should have money set aside for dealing with that possibility.
Mr Ping said:
...and two of them bought 997s purely because of all the talk of chocolate engines - turns out both 997s they got instead were duds (engine issues, no oil when they picked them up etc)
They should have done more research - the engine design issues were still present in the 997.The 997 seems to have suffered more that it's fair share of bore scoring. 2 factors to remember, how many have been sold, lots, and the 2 year service intervals don't seem to do them any favours. Buying any high end car second hand has it's risks, but I'd rather put my hard earned into a 911 than anything else on the market.
OP: 996 is the performance car bargain of the century. Horror stories do happen, but the vast majority are fine, over 90% at least I'd say anecdotally. If you can get a hartech rebuilt one, lovely. One with preventative hartech mods a good bonus, otherwise buy from somewhere reputable like 911V and extend their warranty. Out of a facelift C2 or a C4S, I'd go for the former if a short term purchase to get in at minimal cost, or the latter as a longer term prospect. C4Ss seem to have levelled off, can see them creeping up along with inflation in the next few years. Option to get a garage to remove 4wd gubbins and blank off relevant bits to effectively save 50kg or so and have a "C2S" - prettiest looking not GT car, lighter and RWD.....much awesome and the way if go if I was to buy another C4S.
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