GT3 - buy a 997.2, or buy a 997.1 and save £20k?
Discussion
GreatPretender said:
I think it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Sure, the 3.8 is better on paper, but in the real world, I'm not sure there's a massive difference (bar the greater convenience and slight increase in power/torque).
<snip>
Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.
<snip>
Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.
Slickhillsy said:
997.1 is amazing... Good question, is the gen 2 worth 20K more than this leap!
"Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..."
The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike...
From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...
That's decided then, Gen 1 it is, it's awesome and the Gen 2 doesn't add £20k of value."Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..."
The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike...
From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...
Then I read:
Magic919 said:
Got to be worth getting the Gen2 for the rear bumper alone. Doesn't have the double chin effect of the earlier car.
hondansx said:
I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1.
Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
So now I'm back to square 1!Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome.
I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back.
isaldiri said:
It is a bit tricky for anyone other than yourself to decide whether the extra 20k is worth it. That said, speaking for myself I would go for the gen2 everytime. The 7.1 gt3 is a good car but the 7.2 is a really good car IMO.
But thats the point... Gen 2 is the way to go. Question is... is it worth the extra £20K? If they were the same price point, no brainer - but...I've had a Gen2 for some years now. However, if I was to buy one today, I'd probably go for a Gen1 if it was £20k difference like for like. I'd ignore the Porsche warranty and make a few sensible mods to suit the need.
However... I'm not sure they are actually selling £20k apart. Nic Gen1 cars are in the £60ks aren't they? Then most Gen2s seem to be high £70s, perhaps low £80ks. I think the high £80k cars are just people chancing it.
However... I'm not sure they are actually selling £20k apart. Nic Gen1 cars are in the £60ks aren't they? Then most Gen2s seem to be high £70s, perhaps low £80ks. I think the high £80k cars are just people chancing it.
andywaterfall said:
GreatPretender said:
I think it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Sure, the 3.8 is better on paper, but in the real world, I'm not sure there's a massive difference (bar the greater convenience and slight increase in power/torque).
<snip>
Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.
<snip>
Investment wise, I'd hope that both are a safe bet. The Gen 2 will always command more, but not exponentially so, I shouldn't think. History will view the 997 GT3 as the last of its kind; not whether you get significant benefit from PCM4 relative to PCM3 etc. After all, you could take your £20k and invest it to far greater effect elsewhere in my humble opinion. The Gen 2 certainly isn't £20k more car than its forbear.
Slickhillsy said:
997.1 is amazing... Good question, is the gen 2 worth 20K more than this leap!
"Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..."
The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike...
From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...
That's decided then, Gen 1 it is, it's awesome and the Gen 2 doesn't add £20k of value."Four years in the evolution of the 911 didn’t used to be a very long time, but in the last decade or so the pace of development has been staggering. Want proof? Hop from a 2003-spec 996 GT3 to a 2007 997 GT3 and prepare to have your mind blown. Every dynamic element of the package is transformed – power, torque, agility, stability, body control, grip, braking performance… The new car moves the game on to such an extent it beggars belief. We’ve had the sweet, lithe feel of the original car, the more aggressive and focused second generation and now we get the two expertly mixed but with everything turned up to 12, maybe 15..."
The write up for the gen 2 car doesnt convey such a significant leap. I know we'd all like the latest / last version of the manual GT3 but does it justify £20k plus...? Not sure. I do personally prefer the cosmetic tweaks, rear spolier and alike...
From an investment point - yes. In 20 / 30 years it will be advertised as THE last of the manual great cars, and thats where I think you'll see the most back from your £20k investment not so much in the drive...
Then I read:
Magic919 said:
Got to be worth getting the Gen2 for the rear bumper alone. Doesn't have the double chin effect of the earlier car.
hondansx said:
I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1.
Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
So now I'm back to square 1!Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome.
I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back.
The Gen 2 is undoubtedly a 'better' car in the same way that a Samsung ZX2000 is better than the ZX1000 it replaced. It was ever thus. But, for those of us not fortunate enough for money to be inconsequential, I'd maintain that as a value proposition, £65k of 997.1 GT3 is more satisfying than £85k of 997.2 GT3. After all, £20k into a mortgage is arguably a better bet than an extra £20k tied up in an already expensive car. The bottom line is, you can't really go wrong with any GT3; they were all brilliant and I'd be comfortable in the knowledge that all of them hold one way tickets to the Porsche hall of
Happy hunting.
Slickhillsy said:
But thats the point... Gen 2 is the way to go. Question is... is it worth the extra £20K? If they were the same price point, no brainer - but...
Was I that unclear in my post 
Is the 7.2 worth the extra £20k? I definitely think so personally based on how much I liked the 7.2 to drive over the 7.1 but whether anyone else would think likewise is quite an individual thing I guess.
andywaterfall said:
So now I'm back to square 1!
Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome.
I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back.
a 997.1 with power pack is quicker than a GT3 to about 90mph :-) you don't buy a GT3 for the out and out speed.Seriously, thanks everyone for the advice, all views welcome.
I guess I'll have to drive them both on Thursday (confession - I've driven a few boggo 911s & they aren't quick enough, but never driven a GT3. I'm hoping it'll do the trick) & report back.
What are you going to use it for? The gen 2 is a better out of the box road car, but if you are buying for the track you only have to throw a few grand at a gen 1 to get it to a very similar place handling wise. The Gen 1 is cheaper and doesn't have the centre lock wheel overheads. The price spread doesn't currently show much sign of changing so unless you are planning to be buried in it, the more expensive car to buy will return much of the premium on resale if that is a factor.
There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain.
Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought.
But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.
There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain.
Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought.
But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.
They are all great, 20hp more and more torque low down on a gen 2, and an arguably better looking rear spoiler, but let's face it they all look ok...
Edit to add, I do get the bucket seat thing, I really do, they look good, but I've got the adaptive sports seats and they are excellent.
I've just done 2500 miles around Europe in mine and not once did I feel I needed to be in a bucket seat.
Though I am 6ft 2 and a bit of a lump so the buckets might be a bit snug on my shoulders.
Oh and hi Ian, I hope you are well mate.
Edit to add, I do get the bucket seat thing, I really do, they look good, but I've got the adaptive sports seats and they are excellent.
I've just done 2500 miles around Europe in mine and not once did I feel I needed to be in a bucket seat.
Though I am 6ft 2 and a bit of a lump so the buckets might be a bit snug on my shoulders.
Oh and hi Ian, I hope you are well mate.
Edited by pete a on Tuesday 29th July 21:10
Thanks everyone for some fascinating insights. I guess the answer was obvious from the start - only I can decide if the extra £20k is worth it to me. Without having driven either, I'm veering from one to the other with each new post on this thread, but I'm hoping a drive will make it all clear. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days!
DiscoColin said:
What are you going to use it for? The gen 2 is a better out of the box road car, but if you are buying for the track you only have to throw a few grand at a gen 1 to get it to a very similar place handling wise. The Gen 1 is cheaper and doesn't have the centre lock wheel overheads. The price spread doesn't currently show much sign of changing so unless you are planning to be buried in it, the more expensive car to buy will return much of the premium on resale if that is a factor.
There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain.
Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought.
But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.
I doubt I'll track it, it'll be too valuable/costly. I've got an Elise for that anyway. It'll be for touring with the Petrolhead Nirvana gang, and Sunday morning hoons, and looking at. Thanks for the straight answer at the end of your post!There are other preference factors though. The folding bucket was not available on the gen1, but to me are miles more comfortable than the fixed back seats (comfort seats are missing the point in either). The low end torque and flatter power curve of the 3.8 over the 3.6 is also tangible. If you want sat nav at all then you want gen 2 as well - in a gen 1 you are better off with the basic stereo and a TomTom. Also - IIRC the TPMS system was optional (and often not selected) on the gen 1 and standard on the gen 2. It is well worth having IMHO. The counterweight is that the centre locks are just a pain.
Have you also ruled out the 997.1 RS? If one could be acquired for sensible money it would be worth looking at simply due to the greater potential for medium term value increase. Just a thought.
But if you just want a straight opinion - when in your position a bit under 3 years ago, I bought a gen 2.
pete a said:
They are all great, 20hp more and more torque low down on a gen 2, and an arguably better looking rear spoiler, but let's face it they all look ok...
Simply stunning Pete.. gorgeous arse 
Was a pleasure to follow you in the Alps, You are a very lucky man.. Bet your glad you bought it when you did rather than at today's prices.Edited by mr sagman on Tuesday 29th July 22:42
andywaterfall said:
Thanks everyone for some fascinating insights. I guess the answer was obvious from the start - only I can decide if the extra £20k is worth it to me. Without having driven either, I'm veering from one to the other with each new post on this thread, but I'm hoping a drive will make it all clear. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days!
Andy, whichever one you get you have to get the Hayward & Scott exhaust on it. Its only £400 odd quid and it sounds amazing!
If you are in Berkshire at any point when doing your search, PM me on here and we will arrange a time you can take mine out for a drive.
hondansx said:
I used to love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1.
Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
For me it was this.....Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't want a Gen 1 any less! Some bloody clever designers they have there...
So yeah, i'd do what i could to stretch for the Gen 2!
I still love, love, LOVE the look of the Gen 1!
Then the Gen 2 came out and, somehow, i couldn't quite justify another £20k to buy one! Some bloody clever man-maths required there...
So yeah, I bought a Gen 1 and I am very happy with it!
Edited by V8KSN on Wednesday 30th July 10:14
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