997.2 Exhaust Upgrades - Analysis/Options
Discussion
I have a 2009 997.2 Carrera S, as we know the stock exhaust system for the DFI engines is fairly tame.
Based on desk based research and youtube, seems like there are a mindfield of options. Current options to date below:
- Retrofit PSE - Seems variable reviews and minimal benefit due to restricted valve control, limited noise improvement
- Tubi Upgrade - Seems a lot like PSE but a tad louder
- Fabspeed Upgrade - Has the highs muffled more, not as loud at mid rpms somewhat deeper sounding
- AWE Upgrade - Stock like quiet at idle and around town and more puffy air sounding. Very quiet mufflers a little more growl than stock.
- Borla Upgrade - Probably the deepest sounding with very muffled highs.
- Cargraphic Upgrade - Seems an in between the PSE/Tubi and Fabspeed sound.
- FVD Street Upgrade - Seems to sound very much like the Tubi system but slightly more aggressive and deeper, costs less, and you get more HP/TQ.
Anyone with any experiences or views, i'm currently steering toward the FVD upgrade at this stage? Have I overlooked any options not listed?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Based on desk based research and youtube, seems like there are a mindfield of options. Current options to date below:
- Retrofit PSE - Seems variable reviews and minimal benefit due to restricted valve control, limited noise improvement
- Tubi Upgrade - Seems a lot like PSE but a tad louder
- Fabspeed Upgrade - Has the highs muffled more, not as loud at mid rpms somewhat deeper sounding
- AWE Upgrade - Stock like quiet at idle and around town and more puffy air sounding. Very quiet mufflers a little more growl than stock.
- Borla Upgrade - Probably the deepest sounding with very muffled highs.
- Cargraphic Upgrade - Seems an in between the PSE/Tubi and Fabspeed sound.
- FVD Street Upgrade - Seems to sound very much like the Tubi system but slightly more aggressive and deeper, costs less, and you get more HP/TQ.
Anyone with any experiences or views, i'm currently steering toward the FVD upgrade at this stage? Have I overlooked any options not listed?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Another option http://www.rstube.fr/192-echappement-valves-pour-p... They sound pretty fruity in the videos.
Not seen or heard the French system before, but it sounds good! However, those are PSE tips so is just a centre pipe modification?
There is also FVD Bromacher, which supplies to Manthey. They do a range of exhausts up until the race version which was used by the Grand Am 997 race cars and is very loud! That's my kind of noise, personally...
However, the best i've heard to date is the full system from Innotech. It is the high pitched noise that does it for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or5hMzjtQPY&in...
There is also FVD Bromacher, which supplies to Manthey. They do a range of exhausts up until the race version which was used by the Grand Am 997 race cars and is very loud! That's my kind of noise, personally...
However, the best i've heard to date is the full system from Innotech. It is the high pitched noise that does it for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or5hMzjtQPY&in...
Get2Jaime said:
I have a 2009 997.2 Carrera S, as we know the stock exhaust system for the DFI engines is fairly tame.
Based on desk based research and youtube, seems like there are a mindfield of options. Current options to date below:
- Retrofit PSE - Seems variable reviews and minimal benefit due to restricted valve control, limited noise improvement
- Tubi Upgrade - Seems a lot like PSE but a tad louder
- Fabspeed Upgrade - Has the highs muffled more, not as loud at mid rpms somewhat deeper sounding
- AWE Upgrade - Stock like quiet at idle and around town and more puffy air sounding. Very quiet mufflers a little more growl than stock.
- Borla Upgrade - Probably the deepest sounding with very muffled highs.
- Cargraphic Upgrade - Seems an in between the PSE/Tubi and Fabspeed sound.
- FVD Street Upgrade - Seems to sound very much like the Tubi system but slightly more aggressive and deeper, costs less, and you get more HP/TQ.
Anyone with any experiences or views, i'm currently steering toward the FVD upgrade at this stage? Have I overlooked any options not listed?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Yes, been through this when I first got my 997S.2. I think from your description of the various exhaust options, that you've only listened to Internet sound clips. Sorry to say this, but that's a recipe for a very big mistake as they sound NOTHING like the actual product.Based on desk based research and youtube, seems like there are a mindfield of options. Current options to date below:
- Retrofit PSE - Seems variable reviews and minimal benefit due to restricted valve control, limited noise improvement
- Tubi Upgrade - Seems a lot like PSE but a tad louder
- Fabspeed Upgrade - Has the highs muffled more, not as loud at mid rpms somewhat deeper sounding
- AWE Upgrade - Stock like quiet at idle and around town and more puffy air sounding. Very quiet mufflers a little more growl than stock.
- Borla Upgrade - Probably the deepest sounding with very muffled highs.
- Cargraphic Upgrade - Seems an in between the PSE/Tubi and Fabspeed sound.
- FVD Street Upgrade - Seems to sound very much like the Tubi system but slightly more aggressive and deeper, costs less, and you get more HP/TQ.
Anyone with any experiences or views, i'm currently steering toward the FVD upgrade at this stage? Have I overlooked any options not listed?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
PSE - Expensive, doesn't sound that good on 997.2 - only do this to keep a warranty.
Tubi - Are you kidding? I put a full Tubi on mine and removed it 24-hours later. It's the most obnoxious, far-too-loud-in-a-look-at-me-I'm a-complete-twunt-way, piece of crap you can imagine. Every time you use full throttle is an embarrassment (followed quickly by being arrested)!
Fabspeed - Comedy American attempt to make the car sound like a rumbly V8 (like all Fabspeed parts).
AWE - had one of their full systems on my last car (997S.1). Good (ish) but droned. Noticeable (and measurable) power increase though. AWE seem to have lost their way with their 997S.2 systems.
Borla - No experience of these.
Cargraphic - If you're going down this route, go for the Powerkit5. Manifolds, 200-cells, silencers and a map by Porsche engine tuning gods, RS Tuning. Their maps are properly-developed on their in-hose engine dyno, not some dodgy rolling road.. If RS Tuning claim 418 BHP, the reality's likely 425 - they're the opposite of other BS tuners. The most interesting bit of this powerkit however, is the +50BHP or thereabouts they found in the mid range - should fly along. Expensive at about £6000 though.
FVD - The yanks love 'em. The claims are the same as Cargraphic, but I've no idea if the reality is as good.
In the absence of (currently) being able to afford the Cargraphic Powerkit, I finally found a really good, inexpensive combo for my car. It adds about 10BHP, is QUIETER at cruise than standard and really wakes-up with a nicely aggressive (but not overly loud) snarl as you get on the loud pedal. 2 parts to the job:
1) Get yourself a bypass pipe from Sharkwerks in the USA - it replaces the centre silencer with 2 straight pipes. Alex, who owns Sharkwerks is an ex-pat Brit, living/working in California and a good guy to deal with. Import the part directly (Alex will ship it to you) and you won't have to pay for anyone else's profit. www.sharkwerks.com
2) Exchange your side cans for a pair of Gert Carnewal's custom modified units. He calls them the 'GT' now (used to be RSRs) but I believe they're the same part. The silencers are modded internally and you simply can't tell they've ever been touched from the outside. Deeper and more purposeful sounding than standard. www.carnewal.be
You can install all the bits yourself (take off the rear PU and heat shields first - it only takes about 25 mins. and is far easier than trying to get everything out from under the car).
Enjoy!
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Thursday 7th August 07:29
hondansx said:
I forgot to ask when discussed last time Ian, when you say you had a 'full' Tubi, what did this comprise of?
It's interesting that most reviews i can find of the Tubi system on other forums is that it's mildly louder than a PSE.
The 'full' Tubi consists of a bypass pipe to replace the centre silencer and 2 side silencers. The bypass is very nicely made and of very good quality. The main issue is with the side silencers. They're VERY light weight: whilst this is good for overall weight reduction, it also makes them extremely prone to resonance as they're completely un-damped. They also have a very high-pitched tone (not in a good way) that draws huge amounts of unwanted attention without sounding in any way powerful or purposeful. Even at part throttle, they're an ever-present drone in the cabin - you can't even hear the tyre roar at cruise for the racket from the Tubis!It's interesting that most reviews i can find of the Tubi system on other forums is that it's mildly louder than a PSE.
This is in sharp contrast to their product for the 997S.1 that was a really nice sounding option.
I have a 997.2 with PSE. I really wouldn't recommend spending the money retrofitting this - it's £2k+ and it's nice but it's nothing special. My 996 C4S with PSE was a better sound.
I am trying to get a little more 'soul' from the engine, but as my car is 2010 I am a little concerned re Porsche warranty. I have 2 years with a leading Porsche independent.
I was looking at the Sharkwerks bypass pipe. If I were to put this on, then potentially replace the OEM pipes would the systems/OPC know this and then refuse to put an OPC warranty on it? Also, if I have PSE, will it still work as such with the bypass pipe?
Thanks!
I am trying to get a little more 'soul' from the engine, but as my car is 2010 I am a little concerned re Porsche warranty. I have 2 years with a leading Porsche independent.
I was looking at the Sharkwerks bypass pipe. If I were to put this on, then potentially replace the OEM pipes would the systems/OPC know this and then refuse to put an OPC warranty on it? Also, if I have PSE, will it still work as such with the bypass pipe?
Thanks!
Nero44 said:
I have a 997.2 with PSE. I really wouldn't recommend spending the money retrofitting this - it's £2k+ and it's nice but it's nothing special. My 996 C4S with PSE was a better sound.
I am trying to get a little more 'soul' from the engine, but as my car is 2010 I am a little concerned re Porsche warranty. I have 2 years with a leading Porsche independent.
I was looking at the Sharkwerks bypass pipe. If I were to put this on, then potentially replace the OEM pipes would the systems/OPC know this and then refuse to put an OPC warranty on it? Also, if I have PSE, will it still work as such with the bypass pipe?
Thanks!
Firstly, yes, the Sharkwerks bypass works with PSE - there's a soundclip on their site (on a GTS, I think). Good it sounds, too.I am trying to get a little more 'soul' from the engine, but as my car is 2010 I am a little concerned re Porsche warranty. I have 2 years with a leading Porsche independent.
I was looking at the Sharkwerks bypass pipe. If I were to put this on, then potentially replace the OEM pipes would the systems/OPC know this and then refuse to put an OPC warranty on it? Also, if I have PSE, will it still work as such with the bypass pipe?
Thanks!
As the bypass just replaces a silencer (two bent pipes, with holes, inside a tin) with 2 pipes (straight, no holes, no tin) and doesn't mess with the cats or touch any of the engine management sensors, it is totally undetectable if 'reversed' back to standard.
There are, however, 2 things that make swapping-over the centre silencer/bypass pipes a pain: the 6 nuts that fasten them to the catalysers going terminally rusty and the nuts/coach bolts in the sleeves that connect the centre silencer/bypass to the side silencers doing the same. Every time I touch them I have to cut the bloody things off! It would definitely be worth fitting stainless ones when you put the bypass pipe on!
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Thursday 7th August 11:29
Ian_UK1 said:
1) Get yourself a bypass pipe from Sharkwerks in the USA - it replaces the centre silencer with 2 straight pipes. Alex, who owns Sharkwerks is an ex-pat Brit, living/working in California and a good guy to deal with. Import the part directly (Alex will ship it to you) and you won't have to pay for anyone else's profit. www.sharkwerks.com
2) Exchange your side cans for a pair of Gert Carnewal's custom modified units. He calls them the 'GT' now (used to be RSRs) but I believe they're the same part. The silencers are modded internally and you simply can't tell they've ever been touched from the outside. Deeper and more purposeful sounding than standard. www.carnewal.be
You can install all the bits yourself (take off the rear PU and heat shields first - it only takes about 25 mins. and is far easier than trying to get everything out from under the car).
Enjoy!
Thanks for the replies, all useful insight and some great feedback from Ian on the specific options.2) Exchange your side cans for a pair of Gert Carnewal's custom modified units. He calls them the 'GT' now (used to be RSRs) but I believe they're the same part. The silencers are modded internally and you simply can't tell they've ever been touched from the outside. Deeper and more purposeful sounding than standard. www.carnewal.be
You can install all the bits yourself (take off the rear PU and heat shields first - it only takes about 25 mins. and is far easier than trying to get everything out from under the car).
Enjoy!
I like the idea of the above as a pragmatic option, is it possible to complete the bypass pipe without replacing the side cans? If so, what is the likely outcome from a noise perspective?
Ta
What about the Gundo Hack?
The reason I ask is I am considering a 997. and am thinking, if the one I get doesnt have PSE, wether it would be worth getting the Gundo Hack?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The reason I ask is I am considering a 997. and am thinking, if the one I get doesnt have PSE, wether it would be worth getting the Gundo Hack?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
gerlewis said:
What about the Gundo Hack?
The reason I ask is I am considering a 997. and am thinking, if the one I get doesnt have PSE, wether it would be worth getting the Gundo Hack?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Possible, however the concept of welding the exhaust on a £50k car puts me off....I'd rather throw £500 and it, but not £6k to upgrade the exhaust + the cross over pipes look pretty!The reason I ask is I am considering a 997. and am thinking, if the one I get doesnt have PSE, wether it would be worth getting the Gundo Hack?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Get2Jaime said:
Thanks for the replies, all useful insight and some great feedback from Ian on the specific options.
I like the idea of the above as a pragmatic option, is it possible to complete the bypass pipe without replacing the side cans? If so, what is the likely outcome from a noise perspective?
Ta
Yes it is - in fact, this is the route I took - bypass first, followed by adding the Carnewal silencers.I like the idea of the above as a pragmatic option, is it possible to complete the bypass pipe without replacing the side cans? If so, what is the likely outcome from a noise perspective?
Ta
If you go to Sharkwerks' site, there are sound clips on there that will give you an outline of what you'll get with the bypass and standard silencers. (Usual caveat re Internet sound clips applies)! It's not a bad combo at all and light years ahead of the 'silent' standard system on the 997S.2. Adding the Carnewal silencers just rounded-out the sound, making it slightly deeper and more purposeful than the bypass alone.
Unfortunately, I can't record the sound of my car for you. I don't have a device to record to, other than a smartphone (the sound quality of which is so bad, it would sound nothing like the car does in reality). However, if you're anywhere near Manchester in the near future, I'd be happy to meet and let you hear my car in person.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Thursday 7th August 20:06
gerlewis said:
Fair point about the welding on a 50k car.
When you say ".I'd rather throw £500 and it, but not £6k to upgrade the exhaust"
What does that mean exactly?
" + the cross over pipes look pretty!"
do you have any pics? Is this something that can be seen when standing next to the car?
1.) The varying list of options I've mentioned above are a full range of exhaust options. The one which Ian mentions the Cargraphicts is circa £6k so an upper end option, link below:When you say ".I'd rather throw £500 and it, but not £6k to upgrade the exhaust"
What does that mean exactly?
" + the cross over pipes look pretty!"
do you have any pics? Is this something that can be seen when standing next to the car?
http://www.cargraphicts.com/en/products/exhaust-sy...
2.) Look at a picture of the Gundo hack, then look at a properly designed and machined Sharkwerks (£500ish to buy) option for example:
http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=193
I doubt you'll see them standing near to the car, but you'll know it is there!
Ian_UK1 said:
Yes it is - in fact, this is the route I took - bypass first, followed by adding the Carnewal silencers.
If you go to Sharkwerks' site, there are sound clips on there that will give you an outline of what you'll get with the bypass and standard silencers. (Usual caveat re Internet sound clips applies)! It's not a bad combo at all and light years ahead of the 'silent' standard system on the 997S.2. Adding the Carnewal silencers just rounded-out the sound, making it slightly deeper and more purposeful than the bypass alone.
Unfortunately, I can't record the sound of my car for you. I don't have a device to record to, other than a smartphone (the sound quality of which is so bad, it would sound nothing like the car does in reality). However, if you're anywhere near Manchester in the near future, I'd be happy to meet and let you hear my car in person.
Thanks again Ian, will have a look at the clips to give me an idea. I think I'm going to follow your route and go with the bypass first and see how we get on!If you go to Sharkwerks' site, there are sound clips on there that will give you an outline of what you'll get with the bypass and standard silencers. (Usual caveat re Internet sound clips applies)! It's not a bad combo at all and light years ahead of the 'silent' standard system on the 997S.2. Adding the Carnewal silencers just rounded-out the sound, making it slightly deeper and more purposeful than the bypass alone.
Unfortunately, I can't record the sound of my car for you. I don't have a device to record to, other than a smartphone (the sound quality of which is so bad, it would sound nothing like the car does in reality). However, if you're anywhere near Manchester in the near future, I'd be happy to meet and let you hear my car in person.
Appreciate the offer, unfortunately in the midlands other wise i'd be straight round :-)
Get2Jaime said:
1.) The varying list of options I've mentioned above are a full range of exhaust options. The one which Ian mentions the Cargraphicts is circa £6k so an upper end option, link below:
http://www.cargraphicts.com/en/products/exhaust-sy...
2.) Look at a picture of the Gundo hack, then look at a properly designed and machined Sharkwerks (£500ish to buy) option for example:
http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=193
I doubt you'll see them standing near to the car, but you'll know it is there!
This was the Cargraphic product I referred to. More than just an exhaust, this gives you a very serious power hike, especially through the mid range (albeit at a price).http://www.cargraphicts.com/en/products/exhaust-sy...
2.) Look at a picture of the Gundo hack, then look at a properly designed and machined Sharkwerks (£500ish to buy) option for example:
http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=193
I doubt you'll see them standing near to the car, but you'll know it is there!
http://www.cargraphic-ms.de/index.php?/s,6,7,18,38...
ETA - Available through Parr in the UK.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Thursday 7th August 20:33
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