997 turbo gen1 or gen2?

997 turbo gen1 or gen2?

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Discussion

stuttgart737

Original Poster:

59 posts

115 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Which should I go for? I previously had a 997 C2S and a 996 Turbo (remapped, short-shift) and after a 3 year break due to working abroad, it's time to get back into a 911. I know I want a manual car and a remap and short-shift are on the cards. While I prefer the look of the later 997, particularly the rear lights, I'm drawn to the idea of the Mezger engine of an earlier car.

I'd appreciate any info from anyone with knowledge or experience of the pros or cons of both cars. I'd probably be more than happy to get back into a 996 turbo if the seats hadn't been such an uncomfortable fit for me.

Essential

1,077 posts

209 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Gen 2 - manual

stuttgart737

Original Poster:

59 posts

115 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks Carl. Had found a couple of those threads but the others were new to me. Seems a lot of folk are big fans of the 997 turbo in Gen2 PDK guise as the S. I had a go in one at a Porsche Silverstone event and have to say it left me cold. Fast yes, fun no. Felt like the car was doing it all for me and left me feeling a bit queasy and like I was at Alton Towers. Same reason I got rid of a GTR to keep my 996 turbo.

I think everyone has a different pinnacle in the evolution of their favourite car. There are probably many who reject water-cooling and stability management who find a 996 too sterile. For me, a 993, stunning as it is, would be a bit too committed and the current cars a bit too clever.

So, I know I want a manual car, no PTV, active engine mounts etc etc. Looks like a gen 1 is the way to go (or get some 997 seats in a nice late 996). Think I need to get back in a couple and see if I still have the love - my tastes may have been recalibrated a bit by having an Elise as my current wheels.

moc

215 posts

208 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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I had the same dilemma, had to be manual for me, I ended up getting a very late gen. 1 with the updated satnav.

Having driven both in manual just didn't think the price difference was justified, I think the main gen 2 buying point is the pdk, which I didn't want. I also think the mezger engine will hold it's value well.

Edited by moc on Friday 29th August 13:38

Chad_Hugo

649 posts

177 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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When I started searching for a 997 turbo (my first Porsche of any kind!) not so long ago it was a gen 1 tip I was after, partialy as I did not want to spend much over 50k.

I decided to drive the gen 2 pdk car, and an S to compare to the gen 1.

Needless to say, I very quickly decided it was the gen 2 I would be buying. Even from 20 minutes of driving it was obvious the later car is streets ahead- pdk is on another level to the tip, extra power, better exhaust note, the car felt lighter, better handling and just a better put together package.

2/3 years ago it would have been harder to justify, but considering the cost of the late gen 1 OPC cars (often not far off 60k) compared to gen 2, the gen 2 certainly makes sense to me and in 2014 is the car to go for.

The S is a further premium on top of that, which for me was not justtified at all- the standard gen 2 car already exceeded all my expectations and is bonkers fast!

A shame there are so few of them for sale, and often none in the OPC under 75k....I will have to be patient for the colour/spec I want.


paul0843

1,914 posts

206 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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Chad_Hugo said:
When I started searching for a 997 turbo (my first Porsche of any kind!) not so long ago it was a gen 1 tip I was after, partialy as I did not want to spend much over 50k.

I decided to drive the gen 2 pdk car, and an S to compare to the gen 1.

Needless to say, I very quickly decided it was the gen 2 I would be buying. Even from 20 minutes of driving it was obvious the later car is streets ahead- pdk is on another level to the tip, extra power, better exhaust note, the car felt lighter, better handling and just a better put together package.

2/3 years ago it would have been harder to justify, but considering the cost of the late gen 1 OPC cars (often not far off 60k) compared to gen 2, the gen 2 certainly makes sense to me and in 2014 is the car to go for.

The S is a further premium on top of that, which for me was not justtified at all- the standard gen 2 car already exceeded all my expectations and is bonkers fast!

A shame there are so few of them for sale, and often none in the OPC under 75k....I will have to be patient for the colour/spec I want.
Would you not consider a manual car?
A gen 2 turbo is currently on my short list,but I must say I am drawn towards a manual, though I will be driving
a Pdk car for comparison.

Paul

gd

404 posts

187 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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moc said:
I had the same dilemma, had to be manual for me, I ended up getting a very late gen. 1 with the updated satnav.

Having driven both in manual just didn't think the price difference was justified, I think the main gen 2 buying point is the pdk, which I didn't want. I also think the mezger engine will hold it's value well.

Edited by moc on Friday 29th August 13:38
+1

Exactly what I bought too. The Mezger engine plus the updated interior, best of both worlds IMHO. Although there aren't that many around (late 08/early 09 cars).

From what I've read it comes down to whether you want an auto or a spanish box. If you want an auto then the gen 2 PDK is way better than the gen 1 Tiptronic, but in manuel form I don't think there's a lot in it and I was happier to go for the well proven mezger over the later (then unproven) DFI unit.

Drive both, see what works for you. Both are stupendously fast, especially in overboost, handle amazingly well and are bizarrely practical (mine's a daily drive). When you find "the one" you will know it :-)

G


Chad_Hugo

649 posts

177 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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paul0843 said:
Chad_Hugo said:
When I started searching for a 997 turbo (my first Porsche of any kind!) not so long ago it was a gen 1 tip I was after, partialy as I did not want to spend much over 50k.

I decided to drive the gen 2 pdk car, and an S to compare to the gen 1.

Needless to say, I very quickly decided it was the gen 2 I would be buying. Even from 20 minutes of driving it was obvious the later car is streets ahead- pdk is on another level to the tip, extra power, better exhaust note, the car felt lighter, better handling and just a better put together package.

2/3 years ago it would have been harder to justify, but considering the cost of the late gen 1 OPC cars (often not far off 60k) compared to gen 2, the gen 2 certainly makes sense to me and in 2014 is the car to go for.

The S is a further premium on top of that, which for me was not justtified at all- the standard gen 2 car already exceeded all my expectations and is bonkers fast!

A shame there are so few of them for sale, and often none in the OPC under 75k....I will have to be patient for the colour/spec I want.
Would you not consider a manual car?
A gen 2 turbo is currently on my short list,but I must say I am drawn towards a manual, though I will be driving
a Pdk car for comparison.

Paul
PDK Gen 2 is the only one for me- I think it suits the DFI engine better, and PDK+launch control/sports plus just has to be experienced to be believed! The phrase holding on for dear life comes to mind....smile, and that's coming from someone who's last car was a C63.

The other thing pushing me in the direction of a gen 2 pdk vs gen 1 tip is that looking at trade values and what cars could potentialy be sold for privately short/mid term, yes a gen 2 will cost more to buy of course being the newer car but in terms of depreciation any extra loss will be negligeable maybe a few k over a late 08/09 top spec gen 1 car.

Even gen 2 manual vs gen 1 manual the gen 2 to me makes more sense at present- the gen 2 manuals are cheaper than pdk and I have seen cars just under 60k, so again it's not a massive premium you pay. Mezger engine is more mod friendly apparently and handles the extra power very wel so if you want to go down that road then I suppose gen 1 would be more suited?

Isysman

319 posts

135 months

Monday 1st September 2014
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The manual V PDK question has been done to death. You need to make that decision for yourself, by driving a number of each car. If you are in the market there are plenty of dealers that will happily take you out in these cars. Get a feel for them. When I bougth mine the Gen.2 was out of my price range, but I wanted a Metzger engine. I never drove a Gen.2 so I can't comment on what they are like to drive (they do have better fuel economy though than the gen.1 :-)

Having driven PDK cars, I am a fan, but would I have that gearbox in my Turbo, I think not. No matter how good these gearboxes are, they still take away from the driving experience, so my personal preference (and that's what it is for everyone) is a manual gearbox. Only you can and should decide that for yourself.

What a nice 'problem' to have eh? Have fun looking.

stuttgart737

Original Poster:

59 posts

115 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
No doubt for me on the manual vs non-manual, just gen 1 or gen 2, that is the question. I'm not against either autos or DCTs in principle but, for me, it has to suit the nature of the car. I enjoy driving the wife's Gran Turismo because the auto box (with paddles) really suits the car. On the other hand, my Elise would be an abomination with anything other than a manual. For me a 911 without a stick, whether tiptronic or PDK, is kind of missing the point but, as has been remarked, that's personal preference. I appreciate a gen 2 PDK car is a real weapon but it's not just about the numbers.

All posts very helpful, thanks. Think I'll be looking for an 08/09 manual, has to be silver with black interior. Probably a greater selection of 06/07 cars in that spec so that would be the other option. What I'd really like is a GT2 but then wouldn't we all? Only have an A level in man maths and that would be a degree-level investment.

Adam B

27,142 posts

253 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
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Enjoy the search, I recently bought a 2008 997.1 turbo manual with sports shifter

997.2 with PDK was beyond my budget, and I would not conisder a tip as I really dislike the box, plus wanted Mezger - I reckon the manual Mezger cars in good colours will hold value pretty well.

Red rear lights were an option on gen 1 so easy to swap if you cannot find one with this option fitted

IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
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Defo go for an 08/09 late gen 1 car if you want a manual. Proper dry sump engine. I've not seen many late gen 1 cars for sale though that look good. Try and get a late car with LSD and ceramics - rare as hens teeth options although many people stay away from ceramics I'm sick to death of cleaning brake dust - patience is a virtue!

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
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If you are seeking a manual, then in terms of initial outlay and residuals a late 997.1 Turbo makes perfect sense, as people have said.

Having had both Gen 1 and 2 though, it is worth pointing out that Porsche polished the car in all areas. So for me, it's not just a case of a gearbox choice, the Gen 2 car is better car full stop.

For me, the PDK takes the car to a different level, and for me embodies the technological tour de force reputation that the 911 Turbo has. I'd argue if you want a pure driving experience, get the GT3. However, the Gen 2 Turbo is more overtly sporting than the Gen 1 and far more engaging as a result.

IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
hondansx said:
If you are seeking a manual, then in terms of initial outlay and residuals a late 997.1 Turbo makes perfect sense, as people have said.

Having had both Gen 1 and 2 though, it is worth pointing out that Porsche polished the car in all areas. So for me, it's not just a case of a gearbox choice, the Gen 2 car is better car full stop.

For me, the PDK takes the car to a different level, and for me embodies the technological tour de force reputation that the 911 Turbo has. I'd argue if you want a pure driving experience, get the GT3. However, the Gen 2 Turbo is more overtly sporting than the Gen 1 and far more engaging as a result.
I'd agree with this. The gen 2 manual is a better steer - the steering/handling is far more precise and less woolly but for the price difference I still think a late gen 1 is the way to go if you want a manual - they're cheaper too but I think this will reverse as they get older as far as manuals are concerned.

Chad_Hugo

649 posts

177 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
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High spec/reasonable miles/good colour versions post 2007 gen 1 and 2010/2011 gen 2 cars should do well value wise, neither will lose a massive amount and both imo are a very good buy now.

Anyone who has viewed some cars will also know that the number of really good cars out there is not that high, there is OPC and the well known specialists of which there are 3-4- not many cars between them and very very few Gen 2 PDK available regardless of price- good for values!

My search for a gen 2 car looks like it will take a while, can't find a single car with the colour/spec I want...

Broadly on topic- does anyone know the number of UK 997 Turbo S cars vs. regular Turbo gen 2? I ask because over the last few months the number of Turbo S for sale and sold seems to be very high. I recall reading somewhere there were more of them than non turbo S which sounds a bit odd- is this true?


hugedouche

62 posts

138 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
IMI A said:
- they're cheaper too but I think this will reverse as they get older as far as manuals are concerned.
just scanning the classifieds and like for like the tips look a little cheaper at the mo.

For me much of this comes down whats the budget, at c.£40K the gen 1 looks abit of a bargain.

hondansx

4,562 posts

224 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Chad_Hugo said:
Anyone who has viewed some cars will also know that the number of really good cars out there is not that high, there is OPC and the well known specialists of which there are 3-4- not many cars between them and very very few Gen 2 PDK available regardless of price- good for values!

My search for a gen 2 car looks like it will take a while, can't find a single car with the colour/spec I want...
Fair point. In fact, i noticed 6 months later after getting the Turbo S that OPCs were charging the same if no more for cars with more miles than ours!

IMI A

9,410 posts

200 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
hugedouche said:
IMI A said:
- they're cheaper too but I think this will reverse as they get older as far as manuals are concerned.
just scanning the classifieds and like for like the tips look a little cheaper at the mo.

For me much of this comes down whats the budget, at c.£40K the gen 1 looks abit of a bargain.
sorry I meant gen 1 vs gen 2 not tips vs manuals!!

FeelingLucky

1,082 posts

163 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
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Chad_Hugo said:
High spec/reasonable miles/good colour versions post 2007 gen 1 and 2010/2011 gen 2 cars should do well value wise, neither will lose a massive amount and both imo are a very good buy now.

Anyone who has viewed some cars will also know that the number of really good cars out there is not that high, there is OPC and the well known specialists of which there are 3-4- not many cars between them and very very few Gen 2 PDK available regardless of price- good for values!

My search for a gen 2 car looks like it will take a while, can't find a single car with the colour/spec I want...

Broadly on topic- does anyone know the number of UK 997 Turbo S cars vs. regular Turbo gen 2? I ask because over the last few months the number of Turbo S for sale and sold seems to be very high. I recall reading somewhere there were more of them than non turbo S which sounds a bit odd- is this true?
Like yourself, I was looking for a Gen2 Turbo and as you have already commented on there "appears to be more "S" for sale than non "S".

My daily was a Gen1 Turbo Man, and as the only available cars (at the time) were "S", therefore that is what I test drove. As has already been commented upon within this thread and elsewhere, the difference between Gen1 and 2 really knocked me for six, I wasn't expecting anywhere near the level of improvement I witnessed.

I would never have considered a Tip, but coming from a M3 SMG I wasn't unduly biased against paddleshifts. In this respect the PDK was a revelation. Long story short I placed a deposit and completed within the week. It truly is a car for all seasons, relaxed cruiser when in the mood, and rabid axe murderer when in a different mood.

Possibly things have changed now, but a year ago "S" versions were not commanding much of a premium, and I was able to get into mine for sensible money. If you can get one for the right money, and don't object to PDK (try one before dismissing out of hand) the "S" is a bit of a no brainer as it has all the nice gadgets as standard.

I wasn't able to get "Ideal spec" but I only compromised on rear wipe, despite what some say, I don't think they ruin the lines, and are definitely useful at times.

If you don't mind me asking, what for you is essential, and what is preferred?



Edited by FeelingLucky on Wednesday 3rd September 04:34