Autocar : 458S v 650S vs 991 GT3 (non R S ;) )

[BMCG]

for your viewing pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aODISxOHiI

[Mermaid]

991 stonking VFM
458S would like one of these too
650S not sure

[sidicks]

BMCG said:

for your viewing pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aODISxOHiI

WTF? Supersports on the GT3 not Cup 2's ??

[Callughan]

V different price points, good gt3 can hold its own till the rs comes. He didn't seem to like the mclaren.

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 25th October 11:42

[mrdemon]

sidicks said:

WTF? Supersports on the GT3 not Cup 2's ??

Best road tyre you can buy though but NOT N SPEC

458 just spanks every thing, and the front end makes the car, some thing a 911 will never have, and they have to resort to rear wheel steering to get it to work.

Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 25th October 12:42

[ClarkPB]

mrdemon said:

Best road tyre you can buy though but NOT N SPEC

458 just spanks every thing, and the front end makes the car, some thing a 911 will never have, and they have to resort to rear wheel steering to get it to work.

Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 25th October 12:42

Or take the time to get used to how a 911 drives and learn how to get the front end to work? It doesn't take much effort

[BMCG]

ClarkPB said:

mrdemon said:

Best road tyre you can buy though but NOT N SPEC

458 just spanks every thing, and the front end makes the car, some thing a 911 will never have, and they have to resort to rear wheel steering to get it to work.

Edited by mrdemon on Saturday 25th October 12:42

Or take the time to get used to how a 911 drives and learn how to get the front end to work? It doesn't take much effort

shall we revisit this little competition when the 991 GT3 RS rocks up...

after all the 991 GT3 had no probs excelling the standard 458.....hell even the prior generation RS dusted the 458....cf. myriad reivews Harris et al.

one really should insist on even playing field...no? 458S vs a 991 GT3 RS...that will be one to watch.....

my money will be in the RS...

Edited by BMCG on Saturday 25th October 14:14

[mrdemon]

ClarkPB said:

Or take the time to get used to how a 911 drives and learn how to get the front end to work? It doesn't take much effort

it's gets better every model but never really excels in that dept, trail braking just slows you down and you should not need to have to do it.

Porsche know this and have made sure the car can corner better with real wheel steering and that seems to make the car.

I am not knocking the product it's 100k cheaper and knocks out amazing times, but the 458S spanks it.

[mrdemon]

BMCG said:

shall we revisit this little competition when the 991 GT3 RS rocks up...

after all the 991 GT3 had no probs excelling the standard 458.....hell even the prior generation RS dusted the 458....cf. myriad reivews Harris et al.

one really should insist on even playing field...no? 458S vs a 991 GT3 RS...that will be one to watch.....

my money will be in the RS...

I'll take your bet, the RS will bring big aero to the party, but the 991 GT3 already has all the trick bits and way more BHp than quoted.

[isaldiri]

mrdemon said:

trail braking just slows you down and you should not need to have to do it

Not sure if serious.....you want to take a poll of racing drivers with regards to trailbraking?

Very impressive from the gt3 but autocar seem to missing rather a lot of rather obvious mistakes... Supersports on the gt3 and corsas on the speciale..?!

[mrdemon]

isaldiri said:

Not sure if serious.....you want to take a poll of racing drivers with regards to trailbraking?

Very impressive from the gt3 but autocar seem to missing rather a lot of rather obvious mistakes... Supersports on the gt3 and corsas on the speciale..?!

very, I doubt you are going to be trail braking a 991 GT3, but as I have not driven one yet, hard to say if that will upset the electrics.

drive the 458S and the thing just turns in, I love the way the front end works on the car.

Even in the vid, the word "understeer" came up a lot.

[DT398]

I'd be surprised if the tyres were MPSS. Probably a mistake in describing them?

[hornbaek]

I actually think that a Turbo S will probably be quicker around Castle Coombe than a "regular" GT3 given the long straights.

[Slippydiff]

mrdemon said:

isaldiri said:

Not sure if serious.....you want to take a poll of racing drivers with regards to trailbraking?

Very impressive from the gt3 but autocar seem to missing rather a lot of rather obvious mistakes... Supersports on the gt3 and corsas on the speciale..?!

very, I doubt you are going to be trail braking a 991 GT3, but as I have not driven one yet, hard to say if that will upset the electrics.

drive the 458S and the thing just turns in, I love the way the front end works on the car.

Even in the vid, the word "understeer" came up a lot.

Err, as I understand it you've driven a Speciale a mere 10 miles on roadtest, and yet despite not having driven a 991 GT3, you know that it's the better car dynamically ? My guess is you drove the Speciale with an over anxious salesperson beside you, cold tyres, cold brakes and probably on roads you didn't know. I suspect you barely scratched it's performance abilities, accordingly I call BS on just about everything you've stated in your post above.

As for your comments on trailbraking in a 911, they're not even worth dignifying with a response.

PH's resident anti-GT3 troll is well and truly alive and kicking folks ! !

Demon, do us all a favour, buy the Speciale and disappear to either the PH Ferrari forum or one of the numerous other F forums, and leave us all in peace on here.

Thnx ;-)

[s2000db]

hornbaek said:

I actually think that a Turbo S will probably be quicker around Castle Coombe than a "regular" GT3 given the long straights.

Put it on semi-slicks, and it will beat most things!

[HollywoodStig]

Slippydiff said:

mrdemon said:

isaldiri said:

Not sure if serious.....you want to take a poll of racing drivers with regards to trailbraking?

Very impressive from the gt3 but autocar seem to missing rather a lot of rather obvious mistakes... Supersports on the gt3 and corsas on the speciale..?!

very, I doubt you are going to be trail braking a 991 GT3, but as I have not driven one yet, hard to say if that will upset the electrics.

drive the 458S and the thing just turns in, I love the way the front end works on the car.

Even in the vid, the word "understeer" came up a lot.

Err, as I understand it you've driven a Speciale a mere 10 miles on roadtest, and yet despite not having driven a 991 GT3, you know that it's the better car dynamically ? My guess is you drove the Speciale with an over anxious salesperson beside you, cold tyres, cold brakes and probably on roads you didn't know. I suspect you barely scratched it's performance abilities, accordingly I call BS on just about everything you've stated in your post above.

As for your comments on trailbraking in a 911, they're not even worth dignifying with a response.

PH's resident anti-GT3 troll is well and truly alive and kicking folks ! !

Demon, do us all a favour, buy the Speciale and disappear to either the PH Ferrari forum or one of the numerous other F forums, and leave us all in peace on here.

Thnx ;-)

Don't often post round here but well said.

[thegreenhell]

isaldiri said:

Very impressive from the gt3 but autocar seem to missing rather a lot of rather obvious mistakes... Supersports on the gt3 and corsas on the speciale..?!

Aren't they equivalent tyres? Both are UHP road tyres. The Trofeo R is the Pirelli trackday equivalent of the Cup 2.

[isaldiri]

thegreenhell said:

Aren't they equivalent tyres? Both are UHP road tyres. The Trofeo R is the Pirelli trackday equivalent of the Cup 2.

Not quite. The speciale only comes with cup2s i believe and so far every 991 gt3 seems delivered with cup2s (not the dunlop semi slick option). Supersports are not even n rated in gt3 sizes if i am not wrong so autocar must have just buggered up their tyre descriptions, which is a bit poor.....

Corsas are standard tyres on the 650 and sit between trofeos (which can't be fit to the mclaren safely at the moment) and the standard pzeros. At least autocar got one of the 3 tyres right!

Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 25th October 23:33

[Carl_Docklands]

slippy that's a bit harsh, demon raises a lot of valid points about the gt3. the point about the power output of the gt3 is something many have ignored.

for the first time I can recall that the Ferrari trumps the Porsche. nothing wrong with people stating what they think needs to be improved or are we saying Porsche are no longer going to compete to be the best?

you don't need to drive either car to see what's gone wrong. the Porsche is losing the tests not because of the drive but because of other factors. when you walked up to and sat inside a 997 gt3 clubsport it always felt special.

the RS is not going to fix these problems, a) looking at the mule it's probably going to make them worse b) you can't buy one at retail because it's all vip invitation only b.s

[HokumPokum]

i too think the 458s is basically the best of the new breed. it is a lot more money though.
until the rs shows up that is, then a new round of camparo awaits but D hasn't really said anything that is different to that.

I dun get the hostility.